Frustrated? Don't flame, come ova'here!

[LizardX 0]

Gentlemen,

in the past few weeks there were several discussions about different mods. I've taken a look at the ECP and the Inv44 topics and found that a lot of community members are frustrated of these promising modifications. One part of the members says "hell, why doncha release your work?!", the other part says "hey, everybody has to take a bow, they're doing great job". The workers of those mods say "it's done when it's done" (it's my personal favourite). This leads us to nowhere. I had the idea to start a topic as a place where we can bang the walls with our head, but strictly constructive way, with all due respect, so maybe there wouldn't be any "flame" or "spam" in the mod topics... so, what do you think?

Edit:

just for clearing my opinion, the most frustrating thing I've found connected with some mods, is the lack of respect. In both directions. A. A lot of people is angry at the mod guys because they want to have the mod immediately and don't want to wait a month, a week, not even a minute. They don't understand that those guys have a real life, they have to work, they have to study, they have to go out with wife and kids, etc. But a bunch of guys say "I wantwantWANT it, NOW!" And if their request is not answered (because of understandable reasons) they start to call it "bullshit", "lies" and such.

[Thunderbird 0]

Heh , Thank ya for your kindness by thinking to us...btw not all people are like that , the majority of them encourage us and are very cool

[lukemax 0]

Yes but if people dont push they might never realease it!

i know i have been at both ends of the spectrum!

[EiZei 0]

Well.. judging from what I have seen mod development speed is inversely proportional to the time the devs spend hyping their stuff, posting screenshots and flaming on the forums..

[-HC-Para 0]

Push!

We ain't getting any f@#king younger.

[JdB 151]

Well.. judging from what I have seen mod development speed is inversely proportional to the time the devs spend hyping their stuff, posting screenshots and flaming on the forums..

Yep, most modmakers have better things to do than argue with people who have never made an addon, not even to talk about mods, in their life, and who think they know what it takes to make a mod

[LizardX 0]

Wait, there's more:

B. Some guys say: "Yo, the mod guys owe you nothing! They do a great job, hail to them, give them time, and more: you may kiss their feet for their job!" Well, I disagree but I think I understand what they try to tell. C. The mod guys or their fans play huffy kid: "okay, if you don't want to celebrate us without asking questions then we're gonna keep our works for ourselfes and you're gonna be damned." Some may ask: "Hey, who told you to start topics about your work?"

My opinion: I know something few about making single addons, it's a hell lot of works. I can imagine how much work has to be done before releasing a great, sophisticated mod - I would be happy if I could make one but I will never have the time. I respect the modders as I respect every member of this great community. But! I don't understand why should I pay respect for something I don't have. It's not that I don't believe the mod guys, it's that I'm not a kid anymore. Man, I'm 31, and I know something called "company bullshit" and I don't want to get it especially in this forum. If I have to wait then I will wait. If you say "our mod will be released in 1 year" then I will accept it. If you say "we don't know when it will be released, if ever", then I will accept it. But is you say "beleive me, it's reeeeeeally soon" then I'll feel like you just playing with me. If you start a topic then you accept publicity. You'll be asked, you'll be hurried, your leg's gonna be pulled. So I think it's too late find excuses after you start that topic, the community deserves clear and straight answer - not release times but simply "yes" or "no".

[DKM Jaguar 0]

Yes but if people dont push they might never realease it!

i know i have been at both ends of the spectrum!

This is exactly the kind of myth this topic should dispell.

Luckily I am not subject to the same kind of "push" as the mods get, but it makes me angry as a fellow addon maker to see the attitude that the mod is the community's property from conception to delivery, which it is not.

I beleive an addon is only ever the property of the addon maker, just becuase it is free does not mean you can do what you like with it, or lay claim to it. So I think people need to remember while they watch the development of a mod, that it is only guaranteed to them on release and you can't treat people making them like crap because they CAN pull out and continue working on it privately.

Remember that by "pushing" releases you are only making stress for the addon maker, and they will be releasing to stop the nagging, not for the right reasons becuase they want to take pride over their work and get it right. In the same way if a mod maker is making addons it is probably their own dedication that keeps them motivated, not the pushing, so really the enthusiasm is there or it isn't, no nagging can create that.

However I appreiciate there can be some teasing by mod makers, but mainly this is just to test the public response to see if there is genuine interest in an addon or if there will be 2-3 pages of "I NEED THIS ADDON" and then all interest dies out, like a flash in the pan. See Vodnik topic. I think we're all guilty of posting pictures, and it can seem like teasing (which is why I've laid off doing so) but it is also a tool for seeing what people like in an addon (I've done this when I change texture styles in an addon) without having to release a beta which always drags up endless bug reports on the same posts because people can't be bothered to read the readme, or other posts in the same topic.

Perhaps this is not my place to comment, but I hope you can see it from an addon maker's perspective.

Edit: pointless post, judging by the I44 thread which I just saw. This is out of control, I don't think people even need a reason to post any more.

It's a sad day when the once-proud OFP community can no longer look down on the CS community.

[miles teg 1]

Eh...I don't know about the "worse then the CS community" part. I haven't seen much flaming around here. I stay away from the ECP and INV44 threads. Usually overall most people are cool about mods and addons. I know lots of people have been on my ass about the LoBo mod and its next release, but unless they're really rude (like saying, "Release the addons right now you lazy dickheads") then I just repeat the mantra of "its ready when its ready" and "real life takes priority", etc...

At any rate, people will always get on your tits once in awhile, but the trick is just to cool off, and keep an eye on the prize...and just think of the cool missions that hopefully people will make with your addon. Your C130 for example I already have a Afghanistan Ranger mission ready for it using an older C130 addon as a placeholder.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[DeLiltMon 0]

Serious question time, how many of the people posting in here about pushing for mods to release things have ever tried making an addon? I'm genuinly interested to know.

[Ironsight 1]

Serious question time, how many of the people posting in here about pushing for mods to release things have ever tried making an addon? I'm genuinly interested to know.

That's what I am wondering too

People don't seem to realise how much effort it is to make an addon you (the author) are statisfied with

[harley 3 1185 0]

Well, I haven't been bitching at all, and I'd really like the ones who have to shut up, but anyway. I'm getting a copy of 3ds Max in the next few days and then I'll spend the summer getting to grips with it - hopefully I can make a contribution before Armed Assault comes out .

[offtime 0]

there is also few ppl like me

i dont give shit if they will or not release a thing.

but im putting my word into those topics just to figure out why it takes them so much time to release anything

im making addons and i know how it is sometimes...

[Lt_Phoenix 0]

I've been following a few of the different threads at these forums, and generally give up one the ones like RHS, CSLA, FDF etc because they are filled with whining, spamming and demanding. This results in threads that are over a 100 pages with little or no info. I do however follow the Falklands Mods update post, and have the patience to wait until they are finished.

If you check out the amount of posts that some of us longtime forum-members have, you'll see that it's not many.

I usually use the forum to ask some specific questions, praise some of the work (which should be done more often IMHO), come with a couple of reasonable requests and to check the progress of my favourite mod's and addon studios. I seldom bump threads (although I did a couple of times in the past), because I realize that the addon and modmakers have better things to do than to answer pointless topics on a daily basis.

I think we all could learn from Miles Teg and a few others like him. Their post are often constructive and very informative and I have learnt a lot whilst browsing through these forums. Not "this is shite, make it better" or "why haven't you released this yet. It's 5 minutes past your promised release time" etc...

A little note to all you addon and modmakers out there:

My experience is that usually the ones that are like your work (which I reckon is probably most of the forum-members), often don't bother to post because they are satisfied, whilst the ones who have something to complain about will speak up.

Remember, it's often easier to critisize than to praise.  

And last but not least:

We don't have enough M4's and MP5's etc. They are in fact improving all the time. If you don't like them, don't DL them. It's that simple!!!

[-HUNTER- 1]

I am learning stuff but I wanted to learn how to make maps first so I learned wrptool. Then I tried better to make some nice missions. Then I tried texturing for the first time, and started O2 up and checked out the functions, f***ed allot of nice addons into hidious monsters I try all functions.

Also I give comments in some topic but I try to be constructive and well If I have something like an idea I got that day Ill post it so it can be discussed see what other ppl and addonmaker think and also check what the pro's have to say, sometimes you get really brilliant things from just reading topics!

I think we have a nice community far better then the "other" games!

[DeLiltMon 0]

Well said Lt Phoenix, I just wish some people would think before they post.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]A little note to all you addon and modmakers out there:

My experience is that usually the ones that are like your work (which I reckon is probably most of the forum-members), often don't bother to post because they are satisfied, whilst the ones who have something to complain about will speak up.

Aye i agree to that ,when i see a thread of a great new addon realeased (almost daily in this highly productive flashpoint community) the first 15 - 20 replies on the thread are all very positive comments ,so adding one has few point anymore just cluters a thread for (constructive) bug reporting.But i'm gennerally very trusting in the big Ofp mods and with good cause.

I'm seriously wondering what people are complaining about ,given the amount of addon production in this community ,about every popular vehicle or weapon has been done in 10 versions ,most time periods covered.If there is any lack of in the flashpoint communty it's not addons but missions! Make some mission with the insane amount of high quality addons already available before you go whining about the new versions.

Another thing ,i'm pretty confident about Inv1944's work ,it's a pitty that their forum have gotten some resident spammers ,basicly a number of annoying guys there who home on the forum and clutter threads so that more normal ofp users wont reply on the thread's anymore.

I like the strictness and rules of this forum for the very reason that annoying spammers are booted out before you have a chance to even read their spam thread/reply.Atleast the whining out here is much less comon.

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

I think the hardest part of making a mod/addons, is that the mod makers get excited about the work they're doing and want to share that excitement, so they send in some screenies, etc. This in turn excites the people waiting on the mod. The problem is that it normally takes a lot longer to progress to the end than the mod makers anticipate. It's extremely hard to keep a lid on things, especially when you want everyone to see your vision, but some of the best mods/addons are those that come out of nowhere without a lot of hype.

I think of the WW2 addon maker, John, for example. I was looking for some good WW2 tanks and just out of the blue he comes out with an entire line of amazing looking tanks. I remember ocassional pics from him, but he almost always released soon thereafter. There are others like him, of course; I'm just citing one example.

Anyway, those who have never made an addon/mod or mission won't have a concept of the time involved. I think they should visit OFPEC.com and get started in the creative process so they can gain that perspective.

[llauma 0]

I agree with those who points out that addon making often takes longer than expected but I think addon makers should also think before they show their things. Many sites have a progress meter for their addons and 99% of the times the last 5% takes as long time as the rest.

On otherhand if the developers don't show anything people will become annoyed and start to ask what they are up to.

One thing that is really bad behaviour is when some mod/addon maker says that the mod will be released soon and then it's delayed by a year without the makers even telling the community why when they ask.

[JdB 151]

it's a pitty that their forum have gotten some resident spammers ,basicly a number of annoying guys there who home on the forum and clutter threads so that more normal ofp users wont reply on the thread's anymore.

I like the strictness and rules of this forum for the very reason that annoying spammers are booted out before you have a chance to even read their spam thread/reply.Atleast the whining out here is much less comon.

Don't worry, it is being worked on

On-topic: That is why I44 doesn't use progress bars. You would constantly need to adjust them. You can have an addon 95% done, and than discover a mistake you made setting you back 20% again. It is just unrealistic eye-candy.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

there is also few ppl like me

i dont give shit if they will or not release a thing.

but im putting my word into those topics just to figure out why it takes them so much time to release anything

im making addons and i know how it is sometimes...

You didn't stick to this plan very long.

The simple facts are, NO ONE has the right to be angry.

They promised you addons, sure, but they didn't promise a date, and so far they have not broken any promises. Of course they intend to release their work.

So what if they do promise a release date? As soon as it's not kept to, and it WOULD NOT be, as no release date in the history of the OFP community bar 2 have ever been kept, you'd be jumping in the thread starting this crap again. Inv.44 are correct in this, and are handling the situation very well. If it was me I'd have turned around to all the ungreatful people that some of you have proven yourselves to be and quite frankly told you to go fuck yourselves. I'd not release if I was them.

I think this whole episode reminds me of the old days when BAS were in the community, and every topic had "when will it be done" comments. That was sorted out to a huge extent and things really improved. Now this.

It's a shame the community is going backward like that, but I guess a lot of the people who were here from the begining and have known the true history have left, replaced by the people who pretend they have waited so long for a mod which is still being done, yet the pretend to themselves it is not to give them the "right" to flame.

If you are this wound up about the situation, you need a break from OFP.

Please note I did not add :-) to the end of every sentence in a vain attempt to camouflage what I was saying.

Also please note this post is aimed at a very small minority.

[offtime 0]

there is also few ppl like me

i dont give shit if they will or not release a thing.

but im putting my word into those topics just to figure out why it takes them so much time to release anything

im making addons and i know how it is sometimes...

You didn't stick to this plan very long.

The simple facts are, NO ONE has the right to be angry.

They promised you addons, sure, but they didn't promise a date, and so far they have not broken any promises. Of course they intend to release their work.

So what if they do promise a release date? As soon as it's not kept to, and it WOULD NOT be, as no release date in the history of the OFP community bar 2 have ever been kept, you'd be jumping in the thread starting this crap again. Inv.44 are correct in this, and are handling the situation very well. If it was me I'd have turned around to all the ungreatful people that some of you have proven yourselves to be and quite frankly told you to go fuck yourselves. I'd not release if I was them.

I think this whole episode reminds me of the old days when BAS were in the community, and every topic had "when will it be done" comments. That was sorted out to a huge extent and things really improved. Now this.

It's a shame the community is going backward like that, but I guess a lot of the people who were here from the begining and have known the true history have left, replaced by the people who pretend they have waited so long for a mod which is still being done, yet the pretend to themselves it is not to give them the "right" to flame.

If you are this wound up about the situation, you need a break from OFP.

Please note I did not add :-) to the end of every sentence in a vain attempt to camouflage what I was saying.

Also please note this post is aimed at a very small minority.

hmmm...

true, true :-)

i didnt stick to it

my nerves took control

sometimes im acting like a kid (spoilt even), and thats why i play this game at this age ;-)

ADDED:

notice that i abuse ":-)" not only to point out sarcasm but always, even in normal conversation ;-)

[philcommando 0]

ha!...Try? try not. Its do or dont do. Dont try....just do. (master yoda's qoute when he wears nike shoes..circa..er...must light years away and thats gotta be long long time, cos i sure aint seen any star destroyer other than its pic)

Ever heard 'water off a duck's back?'.....( this qoute aint from donald duck for sure and i aint no duck, just deaf!)

[lukemax 0]

Yes but if people dont push they might never realease it!

i know i have been at both ends of the spectrum!

This is exactly the kind of myth this topic should dispell.

Luckily I am not subject to the same kind of "push" as the mods get, but it makes me angry as a fellow addon maker to see the attitude that the mod is the community's property from conception to delivery, which it is not.

I beleive an addon is only ever the property of the addon maker, just becuase it is free does not mean you can do what you like with it, or lay claim to it. So I think people need to remember while they watch the development of a mod, that it is only guaranteed to them on release and you can't treat people making them like crap because they CAN pull out and continue working on it privately.

Remember that by "pushing" releases you are only making stress for the addon maker, and they will be releasing to stop the nagging, not for the right reasons becuase they want to take pride over their work and get it right. In the same way if a mod maker is making addons it is probably their own dedication that keeps them motivated, not the pushing, so really the enthusiasm is there or it isn't, no nagging can create that.

However I appreiciate there can be some teasing by mod makers, but mainly this is just to test the public response to see if there is genuine interest in an addon or if there will be 2-3 pages of "I NEED THIS ADDON" and then all interest dies out, like a flash in the pan. See Vodnik topic. I think we're all guilty of posting pictures, and it can seem like teasing (which is why I've laid off doing so) but it is also a tool for seeing what people like in an addon (I've done this when I change texture styles in an addon) without having to release a beta which always drags up endless bug reports on the same posts because people can't be bothered to read the readme, or other posts in the same topic.

Perhaps this is not my place to comment, but I hope you can see it from an addon maker's perspective.

Edit: pointless post, judging by the I44 thread which I just saw.  This is out of control, I don't think people even need a reason to post any more.

It's a sad day when the once-proud OFP community can no longer look down on the CS community.

Ok fair point but ok

I make a addon or something SO cool that its gonna push OFP to new limits. i post screens and stuff talk about it.

but its mine so i dont have to realease it. right

Then what the point in posting screens, just teaseing people.

and annoying them when it never comes out.

Thats what i feel anyway

[offtime 0]

nevermind...