CiA co-op night

[Jinef 2]

The solutions I am offering are not what we do at Zeus. They are very different servers, we have different levels of players. Give me a player name from Zeus and I can most probably tell you where he is from, his real name whether he is married/single and his job. Can you do that for the people who come twice a week to CiA?

The solutions I am offering come from my experience at Zeus for 2 years, my military background, my life experience, my experiences playing at CiA and careful consideration of all points of view. You cannot find a thread about coop gameplay I have not read on these forums.

You have several main problems.

Image

You want to attract the right kind of player, the people who really want to simply play as part of a team.

You don't want to attact people who just want to shoot shit for their own self pleasure and doesn't care at all about the team.

So you:

Post on a public forum about your coop nights, you show people lots of pictures of monkey faces, serving marilyn manson in a bar, 6 guys trying to stand on top of each other and pictures of big explosions.

Who do you think it is going to attract?

Result: People join and try to have fun, they shoot enemies at will and go off to find something to kill. You kick them and call them Rambo... A lot of people quite rightly think "ummm... what just happened".

Atmosphere

It is interesting how Hardrock says:

Quote[/b] ]If there was a new person from time to time, he was in an environment of experienced players who knew about teamwork and who had the spirit to play in a mature way. This person was watched from all sides and afraid to do any error which would prevent him from playing there in the future, which produced the coldness you just spoke off.

While Llauma seems to think:

Quote[/b] ]I still see OFP as a game and not real military where the leader intimidates the soldiers to obedience.

It seems intimidation is practiced yet not supported...

Also the admins are there to welcome and keep the games going.

There were several occasions where Bals abbrasive character rubbed me in the wrong way as it were. The admin is there to make people feel welcome, not take out his frustration on a bunch of people who came to experience some OFP.

Also, if running a high capacity server you want to have people playing. FDF missions have an annoying trait of lasting 90 minutes at least, admins need to reassign to keep majority of players actually playing.

If a player joins and you say "Read the rules or be kicked" it shows you are too fucking lazy to actually help that person.

A very simple: "Hi PlayerName, how are you today mate?" or "Do you like coops PlayerX?" makes a big difference between a friendly server and a cold server.

Lack of Leadership

Radnik and Major Fubar both agreed that Llauma and Bals are are among the best and most professional leaders in OFP.

Could you elaborate more on that? As I believe that there is hardly any leadership at all on CiA. There are simply players who go through repeat conditioning to arrive at a comfort zone for the admins, or to rephrase in hard rock's words:

Quote[/b] ]As you continued playing you got yourself comfortable with the style of the server, you didn't need any rules as you learned the stuff by watching and playing with other, experienced players.

I have seen this on other coop servers, there is no leadership. There is simply conditioned players who work together. All the CiA leaders are doing is pointing in which direction the section moves, everyone then does what he wants within the limits of acceptability.

Now, let's change the situation:

Quote[/b] ]Instead of <10 we got >25 players, which is more than double the quantity. The only problem is: The number of (CiA) experienced players didn't increase proportionally to the overall number of players. New players might start a behaviour which is not okay for us, but other new players watch them and do the same.

It's very stressing to have several teamkills and injured people because of friendly fire each mission. Many newer players are unconcentrated, fill the chat with useless drivel and miss the important messages from the leaders. They start to go on their own, ignore the orders and make teamplay harder than it could be.

Hardrock diagnoses the problem as not enough experienced players in ratio to inexperienced players. I diagnose the problem as no effective leadership. The figurehead leader that simply points in the direction to go cannot control large numbers of people. The really good and professional leadership for 10 men is suddenly not very good or professional for 25 men.

CiA's Solutions

Instead of realising they have a badly designed leadership they simply cry out there is more Rambos and creates more lists of stupid rules and changes the locks again

These 'problem people' that CiA keeps addressing with new rules/passwords never appeared in sections/missions I was leading.

As Shinbusan very well put it, "If you start to behave like a LEADER, they start to behave like SOLDIERS."

Yours Sincerly,

Ego Jinef

[.pablo. 0]

well, there seems to be only one way to settle this:

fdf pvp coop

mission: bridge assault

team 1: CiA regulars

team2: Zeus regulars

when: any saturday/sunday evening

each team gets a shot at both attacking and defending.

winner is decided by whichever side has more fun.

let's get it on!!!

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

[Cibit 0]

Well I have to say that although I am a zeus regular I don't assume that the way we do things is the way everyone should do it.

Different folks etc.Nuff said

However as the end approaches and less people play our wonderful game I think we need to think about playing together sometimes, not as a percieved grudge match (I am sure most of us are co-op freaks anyway) but working together especially in some of these rather expanded fdf missions. 2 squads 1 objective Alpha squad=CIA Bravo squad=Zeus 2 different TS channels with a whisper set up for squad leaders.

Hell I may even knock up some missions to that end.

Just my thoughts on the subject more players=more fun

BTW MetalG and any others your always more than welcome to pop by for a co-op

[Balschoiw 0]

I´ll keep it simple:

1. It´s our server

2. We have a community of regular players who seem to enjoy gaming

3. We have newbies who either learn the deal or not.

4. We have rules.

5. We don´t go to other servers telling them how they should run it.

6. We expect exactly the same from other servers.

It´s kind of funny to read all that inside things, especially if you keep in consideration that some of the commentors didn´t even play on our server.

Jinef, a direct word to you: It´s all nice and dandy what you say, but the extreme chatting and vocal chatting you offered on the server is not productive. It was hindering a lot infact as people were not able to use TS when you were on as you chatted all the time. I know you have a tendency to flood the TS chat with your views, but there is more than one person in a team and I don´t think that you need to direct units by inches like you do. There still should be some freedom left ingame. It´s a game afterall.

Thx for your time mate, but I guess we can sort it out on our own like we did over the last 4+ years

[Major Fubar 0]

I've played on both Zeus and CiA (a lot more CiA lately), and I have enjoyed myself at both.

On CiA I have had a lot of fun and made good friendships with some of the regs. I have learned things about other cultures and other points of view. If CiA was the cold, hardass server that some people are claiming, I honestly would have stopped going there long ago.

Have I been yelled at for doing something stupid? Yes. And looking back, I deserved it. It's one thing do make a bit of a slipup that really doesnt affect things, but quite another to blow a mission that a group of people have been trying to complete for an hour or more by not following a simple and direct order.

At CiA, even though Bals and Llauma are most often the in misison leaders, doesn't mean it's carved in stone. In fact, sometimes they want a break and have someone else lead. And when they are the troops instead of leaders, they follow orders. Personally, I appreciate it when a leader consults with the troops instead of just barking orders blindly. Why not ask a sniper what he thinks the best spot to engage is? Why not listen to an AT soldier when he tells you that he is still to far from the enemy APC to effectively engage it. But at the end of the day, it is not unreasonable to expect people to follow orders. If a sniper says he wants to engage from coordinates XYZ, but the leader tells him no, becuase he may get spotted and alert the enemy, it's perfectly reasonable to me.

Jinef, I have to flatly disagree with most of your assessments of what goes on at CiA nights. You seem to be simultaneously saying that CiA server is too strict, but also that it is not professional enough. IMHO, Bals, Llauma and the others run a good server, at least for my style of play. I have played on servers that have been a lot more "strict", where the members want to run their missons as ultra realistically as possible, following each and every military protocol to the letter. To be honest, I dont mind this style of play once in a while, but to have that all of the time would remove a large part of the fun I get from OFP.

But for basic shit like the team leader saying "hold fire until I give the command" and then have some clown starts chugging away with his MG, getting half the team killed because they weren't in position yet, is just not excusable, and certainly does merit a warning for the first time, and a kick if it keeps happening. If someone blows a careful planned assault because they want to increase their killcount, damn straight they deserve to be growled at. Put it this way, I have never personally seen anyone kicked from the server that didn't deserve it.

Also, I just don't get what the beef is with a few "zany" screenshots. Most of these are either taken in some missions that we play just for a bit of a laugh between the more serious ones, or at a point where the opportunity for taking a screen that seems humurous just presents itself. I would suggest anyone who thinks that these occasional oddball screenies represent the majority of gameplay on CiA is being incredible naieve. Who's going to get on a server with the attitude "hey I saw a monkey in a screenshot, therefore that means I can go nuts and do anything I like on this whacky server" If anyone belives that, check out some of my lengthier slideshows sometime that I've posted in this thread, you'll find the vast majority are action or dramatic shots taken during serious gameplay. Of course, when I've only got a handful of screens worth posting, something funny or unusual is more likely to get posted than "Portrait # 0435 - Hardrock reloads his rifle again"...

So basically what I'm saying is I think CiA strikes a good balance between uber realism and strictness in command structure, while still allowing players to ahve a little fun. I mean really, why the hell would someone even play a game if it wasn't fun? If CiA server was as devoid of enjoyment as seems to being implied, why does it have a core of regs that keep coming back, not to mention newcomers who enjoy it so much that they also become regs...

I can respect your opinions Jinef, but I'm afraid that for what I seek out of the game, I have to disgaree with many of them. There really is no "right" way to play OFP, just what each group or server finds that is workable and enjoyable.

[Balschoiw 0]

Thx for the nice words Fubar.

It´s always been our goal to make it fun for all participants. Coop-fun.

I guess people like Tony Marony, Radnik, Where´s my rabbit, Kaka and many more do come to the server for a reason and we all enjoy that a lot.

There will always be issues with new players. I guess Zeus isn´t immune to that also.

Those isuues have to be sorted out. On the CiA server as on any other server.

I don´t get the "cold" - atmosphere thingy anyway. IMO we all have a bunch of fun, jokes, laughs and funny moments. We don´t run the server Gulag-style. Claiming alone doesn´t make that true.

Anyway, as I said, in the end it´s our server. A server that is open to anyone who is into coop gaming. Not more, not less.

Or speaking in Kenji´s words:

Hai !

[hardrock 1]

we have different levels of players. Give me a player name from Zeus and I can most probably tell you where he is from, his real name whether he is married/single and his job. Can you do that for the people who come twice a week to CiA?

I don't see what that has to do with the ability to play proper games together. I don't need to know everything about the private lifes of any of the players on CiA, that's what RL friends are for. And I feel sorrow for everyone who hasn't got some to search them on some internet games. I like the people who join regularly, I know the one or other fact about some of them, and that's it.

Quote[/b] ]Image

We don't care about our image. Is it of any use if we have a good image? Or a bad? Does it affect gaming twice a week with some freaks around the globus in any way? No, I don't think so.

Quote[/b] ]The solutions I am offering come from my experience at Zeus for 2 years, my military background, my life experience, my experiences playing at CiA and careful consideration of all points of view. You cannot find a thread about coop gameplay I have not read on these forums.

That is great, Jinef. But is that why you join the server twice in your life to write pages in this thread about how we play the wrong way, how cold the athmosphere is and how bad the leaders are leading? People who join regularly, do that more than twice. And they enjoy it. So leave it that way and don't try to make a Zeus II of us.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]If there was a new person from time to time, he was in an environment of experienced players who knew about teamwork and who had the spirit to play in a mature way. This person was watched from all sides and afraid to do any error which would prevent him from playing there in the future, which produced the coldness you just spoke off.

While Llauma seems to think:

Quote[/b] ]I still see OFP as a game and not real military where the leader intimidates the soldiers to obedience.

It seems intimidation is practiced yet not supported...

Wrong. As Major Fubar already stated, there are different levels of obedience. We don't require that people have to be told about every single step they make. If people can't take up the responsibility to act individually, they should take care of their steps. Or stay away from the server. But it's not asked to much to hold fire until told to.

Quote[/b] ]Also the admins are there to welcome and keep the games going.

We aren't in Paradise Wonder Land. People come, or they don't. If people become interested by reading in this thread, they should try and join. But they shouldn't expect us to wash their feet just because we're so happy about them to join.

Bals and Major Fubar have pretty clearly stated our point of view. Accept that, join our server or don't, but stop trying to teach everyone. There are many people in this world. And at least as many point of views.

[Jinef 2]

I have been told to hold fire.

Hardrock, take the blinkers off please.

Bals, with all of your SF experience you must know how important it is for micro-management of Soldiers. Remove the thinking element and you have much better killers.

A lot of people think I am trying to make another Zeus. Not true. I played on both servers, I nicked ideas and missions from CiA server and applied them to Zeus, my goal was to make both servers better. I also tried to show CiA what we aim for at Zeus that I think is better. No problem if you don't want any advice.

I would love to play on either at the moment, I have recently moved and have only temporary internet connection

Good luck. Jay Out.

[Shinbusan 0]

I didn't critic CIA. As I said, I did not played there. But it does not mean that I cannot share my knowledge with other coop freaks like me. I am sorry if someone felt that I want to attack him. I didn't. I just said that after some coop experience I think that leader is most important thing in coop. I played ultra-realistic coops with RAAB, and much more less-realistic but still fun with CFOG. And something medium with Team Tactical. And no matter how realistic it was, always good leader made it better. So I wrote it, and said, that I agree with Jinet. Sorry for that.

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

[.pablo. 0]

*takes peace pipe*

i'd be up for that, i just think a friendly pvp coop would be a lot of fun for both zeus and cia regs, and would probably lag less (less ai needed)

*hands peace pipe to next guy*

[Major Fubar 0]

It's good that we can discuss this in a civlised way.

Jinef, I'd still be very interested in seeing some more realistic missions that you might use over at Zeus. At the moment I have basically just gotten into mision making in a big way, and it would be good to get some pointers from established missions.

[.pablo. 0]

Jinef, I'd still be very interested in seeing some more realistic missions that you might use over at Zeus. At the moment I have basically just gotten into mision making in a big way, and it would be good to get some pointers from established missions.

pvp coops are the key! human opponents are so much more challenging and more fun than fighting the ai!

[Jinef 2]

Major Fubar -

http://members.lycos.co.uk/jinef/fdfmissions.rar - 1.3mb

My old FDF missions. Includes Bridge Assault that og drones on aboot

My missions don't get publicity, I don't post them on OFPEC, I don't post much about them. Their only publicity comes from loud mouths who yell about what a great coop they just played etc. *looks at walker and og*

Hope you get some good ideas, the use of AIOD by Bn880 is something most missions makers should get by now.

[Daddl 10]

Just wanted to say thanks for the great games tonight! Finally I managed to participate again.

[TonyMarony 0]

Anyways,

good Games for me last night, thx to all!

And here are some nice pics !

lotsa big bad enemies to engage!

lotsa dead enemies we engaged on this strange mission. But good fun imo.

Another mission with a uncommon idea (which don´t worked sooo good).

rabbits last missle failed, but he hit a lot before! GJ!

Greetings + CU on Wed!

Tony M.

[Major Fubar 0]

Major Fubar -

http://members.lycos.co.uk/jinef/fdfmissions.rar - 1.3mb

My old FDF missions. Includes Bridge Assault that og drones on aboot

My missions don't get publicity, I don't post them on OFPEC, I don't post much about them. Their only publicity comes from loud mouths who yell about what a great coop they just played etc. *looks at walker and og*

Hope you get some good ideas, the use of AIOD by Bn880 is something most missions makers should get by now.

Cheers mate, I'll be sure to check them out

=====

Thanks for the games guys, that "aircraft carrier" mission was just insane!

[wheres my rabbit ? 10]

[imghttp://img447.imageshack.us/img447/9138/flashpointresistance2005101302.jpg[/img]

in answer to kaka's question in this screenshot cos i was a bit busy and couldn't read much or type

i'd ran out of everything and only had bombs left so was try to get over the last plane and bomb it out of the sky lol..

i must have overshot and it got a shot on me...

if any of you can tell how i died ? it seemed to me like i just randomly exploded

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Well after reading all of that, I need to make a comment.

I played on CiA server twice, or was it three times? Nevermind.

All the times I managed to get online brefore the games started.

Got into the server, witch greeted me, and I slipped into a free slot, some guys were chatting about something and I joined in.

OK, mission started, everybody forgot the chat from the lobby and focused on the mission, sometimes we got wasted, sometimes we completed the mission, not that bad.

To tell you the truth, atmosphere in-between mission isn't cold, it's actually very hot. (Fubar knows what I mean).

Moments good and bad:

Moment 1:

Mission was to assault some key locations, we were to assault an village, I accidentaly dropped into some bushes just to be yelled at from Bals to get out of his ironshights,

Comment:

Actually he saved me my life instead of just shooting blindly.

Moment 2:

Mission was to escort an tank to a hill and engage a village. When we got to a point along the road, we were ordered to pull alongside, I did that, but I didn't like my parking, i tried to move a bit (3-4m) and Llauma yelled at me for doing so.

Comment:

That was a tad harsh but understandible, we can't read each others minds over the internet now can we.

Moment 3:

Mission was to recon a village and then drop a smoke to call for an extraction.

We moved along the road and set up in the forest, wait was for about 30 minutes till we moved again. We engaged an camp and then waited for another 30 minutes.

Comment:

Utterly boring mission, but that's not CiA fault, but mission makers fault.

At this time I pop up at the server when I can or remember, I don't consider myself regular but I noticed some folks were taught by Radnik to speak some of my language. That shows that indeed CiA guys seem to care.

I spend most of my online time playing with my squad on a private server, we have chain of command but not everytime the higher ranking officer is leader. We joke alot even ingame but that happens most during the hilarious moments or long drives.

I play Coop on both servers and I like playing on them, but as a wise man once said: Tastes are different and they're not worth discussing, everyone has his own taste.

[terox 316]

I cant be doing with

"their  house is better than our house, my dads bigger than your dad"

typical BIS forum discussion

I am heavily biased towards zeus, its the only server i play on, my days of server hopping are over, it has the addons and the vr mates i like to be in the company of

So what i have to say should be viewed with that bias in mind

Add to that my age and senility setting in, take what i have to say with a pinch of salt

I am 40, have a family and spend some of my time working at or playing OFP

I have only been on the CIA server once, and that was for a joint cia-zeus coop night that was supposed to have been organised

My recollections of that night are

We turned up in quite large numbers

Received no warm welcome

Was left in the lobby for quite a considerable time (even though the number of players in the lobby was if memory serves, double that of those ingame)

We had been invited but i felt that we were violating someones privacy and if i have to be honest were treat rather direspectfully

The TS chat and atmosphere was more like being in a funeral parlour than an online game

and when we finally got into the game i didnt enjoy it

Now it could have just been a bad day for the CIA admins, who knows, we all have them

But i left the server never wanting to return and thats a sad way to leave any server

Obviously The guys at CIA must be doing something right or you wouldnt have been up and running for as long as you have

Its unfair to comment on the way you play or create missions, every server is unique in that aspect and its basically that which draws a player to a server, but i cant help but to comment on the cold atmosphere i that i felt when i was on your server and if nothing else, maybe you should make a little more effort to be more friendly when newcomers arrive

Thats just my own personal opinion, i try a place out once, if i dont like i dont return and being a pretty laid back guy if thats the way i feel about the CIA server then i am pretty certqain others must have the same opinion.

Please dont view this as anything other than constructive criticism, it isnt intended as anything else and it isnt an actual dig at anything you do, its simply the feeling i had when i was there and as you guys can witness, i have never returned

Just say Hi to folks who visit you and have a laugh, its a game not a job

It's leisure not work

and am sure that we at zeus aint perfect either and we have our own problems, waiting in the lobby too long between missions or trying to get someone sorted out with their mod folder or addons

Anyway, keep playing OFP, thats what its all about, if everyone and every server was the same it would be pretty bloody tedious

And am sure someone will come back with a cia v zeus argument, this post aint about that, its your server run it as you see fit and good luck

[Major Fubar 0]

Look, I didn't want to get involved in this as a moderator, but I feel I have to now.

Please let the "server vs. server" discussion end now - in most cases, it really isn't productive, and it certainly not what this thread is about.

At the end of the day, everyone has their own requirements of what makes a great server. Some people prefer CiA, some prefer Zeus, some prefer others altogether.

Let this be the end of it, I'd hate to have to start handing out punishments.

[Balschoiw 0]

I am not getting into this made up Zeus <-> CiA things.

I don´t care for them as they never existed for us.

We at CiA play for over 4 years online. Mostly coop from the start.

I can´t remember a Zeus-CiA coop night. If it has taken place I either can´t remember or wasn´t there for other reasons.

I don´t know what you are up to. Seriously.

Noone offended Zeus. Noone tries to interfere with you.

We are here long enough to have a core of regular players (growing). I can´t understand your impressions on "cold atmosphere". As long as I have been playing on the server I can´t remember a "cold atmosphere" apart from ladder or league matches.

Infact, as many players can tell we got quite some fun there and kidding and joking is a big part of CiA coop nights.

As a matter of fact our players come from all over the planet. Japan, Estonia, France, Hawaii ? and many many other places.

A lot of those people either don´t have a mic or are not trained in vocal english coms. That´s why a lot of people just listen on TS while others do speak.

As for your specific impression:

Quote[/b] ]Received no warm welcome

Doubted. We´ve always been nice to other squads be it at league matches or during organized events.

Quote[/b] ]Was left in the lobby for quite a considerable time (even though the number of players in the lobby was if memory serves, double that of those ingame)

A mission is over when it´s over.

Quote[/b] ]We had been invited but i felt that we were violating someones privacy and if i have to be honest were treat rather direspectfully

Ok I want to know where you have been treated disrespectfully.

I really want to know now.

Quote[/b] ]The TS chat and atmosphere was more like being in a funeral parlour than an online game

Look above.

I don´t know what the heck you´re after.

I wouldn´t judge a server after one single game. It´s the mix of people who makes every night different.

I never had any sentiments against or pro Zeus.

But people from Zeus who have played with us once and now go for indepth analyzes are a bit over the top imo.

Noone is forced to play with us and still there are a lot of people who do that on a voluntary, free-willing base.

That´s what the CiA server is all about.

If poeple don´t have fun, they don´t play again.

If people have fun, they play again.

Fortunally we have more people of the 2nd kind than the first kind.

All that Zeus - CiA crap should stop now. This thread is about the CiA forum nights, not a Zeus - CiA chatroom with dubious motivations.

I already recieved a PM from Iwlooz about the issue (an issue that never was there unless Zeus people felt the need to bring it up btw) and I hope that you can take your discussions about your personal experiences to your forums and spare the space here for people who actually want to play or discuss the CiA coop nights. I guess you can´t judge a server after one visit, but that´s just my honest opinion.

[bn880 5]

Come on you farking stinking bastige's bells! Come face us major whiners at Zeus for a PvP fight.

Bring your best farking iceholes of CiA land so that we can kick their arses in a major slugfest.

I'm tired of this brickeling on the foureyes! You guys are dead, we're going to rearrange your faces aisbitches.

FARGIN WAR

But seriously, if you aren't going to stop this server vs. server bollocks, then lets build it up to a nice anger level so we can have a real f***g competition with anger and all bells and whistles.

Oh I guess we'd have to move the discussion.

[Balschoiw 0]

To be honest I guess there´s little chance for that right now.

Let´s keep CiA and Zeus separated. I guess that is the best for now.

There´s too many resintements right now, although I still don´t understand what the whole story was/is about.

Looks like a PR stunt to me.