Lack of missions in Operation Flashpoint

[SpecOp9 0]

The Poll Question is :

Why do you think missions are so rare in Operation Flashpoint?

__

This thread could help BIS for Op Flashpoint 2.

But belongs here because it is based on OFP1.

Everybody knows that Operation Flashpoint has many more addons than it does missions.  Addons seem to get much more attention than missions to most people.  The strange thing about this, is that the editor is so easy to use, and so easy to put into your game unlike other programs, where you need to go through alot of out-of-game hassle like compiling and importing just to get it working in the game.

This thread is to find out why missions are so rare, and find out what we can do to make them more fun to make.

First my opinions.

Missions have been going downhill for a long time.  Never gone up.  The only time they go up, is when a mission like Capture the Island was made.  The reason why I think CTI was so successful, is that it presents absolutely EVERY aspect of Operation Flashpoint into one mission.  It is not linear like other missions.  YOU make the decisions you want to make.  Attack, Defend, Snipe, drive, command, and everything else with a great balance in gameplay.  Other missions don't let you do this.

And that's why I think missions are so rare.

We are'nt really creating (missions) we are creating (scenarios).  Go here, do this, end of mission.  Go here, snipe him, all done.

So with my opinion in mind...here is my suggestion that could raise the level of Mission in Operation Flashpoint.

OFPEC could really turn the whole mission scene around, becausse they are probably the gods of OFP missions when it comes down to it.

I suggest that someone like OFPEC possibly create a web page, where people interested in mission making can go and download pre-made templates of good missions.

I'l use an example.  Iron Wall.  Great mission that very few could make from scratch (or would want to make for that matter).

So instead, they can go to this web page, download the mission, and they are given a manual on how to customize that mission to how they see fit.  Like if they want to add an option for you to build a giant watch tower, there will be a manual telling you how to do that.  Like..

"To add a Watch Tower, open up build.sqs, and type this in to be able to build a watchtower.  Then go to AIbuild.sqs and add this code line"

And also could add new units using BAS or something.

Eventually, if there are enough templates available to people, they will download them, make new missions, and then release them, and then we have missions using BAS or RHS addons.

And then, I would think making missions would be more fun.  Because you dont need to start from scratch.  And if you dont know how to do something, you have a guide.

Would take much time to make the guide however..

Thats one suggestion....

Now number two..

How can we make missions more fun to build?

My personal opinion on why enough missions are not being made is because it's not that fun to make, or sometimes even play.  And, not as rewarding as an addon could be.

I remember OFPEC was building a Campaign.  I had asked what happened, and they said everyone appeared to lose interest in building it.  And if you hear that from OFPEC, then you know it's the same for everybody else.  I too sometimes loose interest in making my missions.

So basically the reason why we lose interest, is because we arent having fun building them anymore..

So how can we make mission more fun to make?

Your answers might be:

1. Addons for one, and we got plenty of those.

2. Pre-made scripts we can put into our missions.  We got plenty of those too at OFPEC.

3. Mission ideas - plenty of those at OFPEC also

I really don't know the answer to why missions arent fun to make.  Maybey it has something to do with the customization of the missions.  Or has something to do with ones skill level and what they are capable of making.

This thread is to find out why why WHY WHY!

And HOW HOW HOW we can fix it.

Maybey we need more things like the FDF mission repository?

Like a BAS mission repoistory, RHS, ToW, Unsung, The WWII mods, etc.

User mission section: # of threads - 668

Addons and mods complete: # of threads - 4486

[theavonlady 2]

Too many talented people devoted to great addons that get toyed with and photographed for a day or two.

[void_false 1]

Once i've posted some teaser and was banned for a month... Moderator just didnt get teh humor.

since then i'm afraid to post anything here.

[SpecOp9 0]

Too many talented people devoted to great addons that get toyed with and photographed for a day or two.

Yea I had the same kind of thinking.

An addon is more rewarding than a mission usually is, when saying that, I mean it's more rewarding to the author to hear and see their mission posted at OFP.info, the comments by the community, and the praise they recieve by the community.

OFP.info could really do something about this.  People, like me, LOVE making missions and sending them to OFPEC just to see their final review of their work, and seeing the comments people leave them.

If OFP.info can make a mission review team, or possibly have OFPEC join OFP.info, you have yourself a firework show.

OFP.info: Addons worship

OFPEC: Mission worship

I think that could really make a difference.  If people see two large worlds cram together, and know the reason behind it, I think that people would want to contribute to that.

And a random person can't just suddenly make a website dealing with this. It's too late in the Flashpoint days for stuff like that. These days people do two things, OFP.info for addons, OFPEC for missions. They see these web sites every day, and if one day they see it with a a huge component added on to it, they will explore this area and see what is going on, and they will get involved with it.

There is too much of a seperation between addons and missions. And I say if OFP.info and OFPEC just once, try joining each other, the end result would be very rewarding to both of them.

They have nothing to loose.

it's good that you brought that up Avon, glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that way also.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

When I make missions it's for MP using custom addons.

Very boring kind of.. 2 People agents 50 or so heavily

armed Russians. No scripts, few way points....... Just

addons, addons, addons...

It's the simplicity of my self made missions that make it fun...

I think, either that or the shiny new guns tanks and tortured hostages.  

I really haven't DL any more then 5 missions all of which

I didn't play... Either the missions are soo scripted it's linear

or it's so basic it's lame. #1 reason why I don't bother

making any missions... #2 It's an art, you can throw some

units on a map and call it mission... A true playable mission

uses a plot, some scripting and combines humor with the

reality which identifies the plot.

A mission is basically a mini movie only you decide the ending,

(And your a major star in it). Allot of poorly made/produced/

acted movies out there, and only a few good ones. Same with

directors. Missions makers have to be the script write,casting

director, editor,camera person, and director.

Good plot + good director/mission maker + creative cast =

good OFP mission. Unless you get all of it together...

Boring, which is why allot of missions (From my understanding)

are half baked.

Personally If I wasn't making the shiny new addons, I'd write

plots for missions. Since I find shiny new addons funner,

thats what I do.

[benu 1]

Spec Op: are you talking mp or sp? Our mission makers make new missions every day, using lots of addons. We have more than 1000 missions on our server. And i know that FDF, SES and Zeus (and many other mp servers/communities too) have talented mission makers too, that make missions containing many of the new addons. So i don't think that there are too few missions using those addons. In MP at least. Couldn't tell about SP as i don't play sp at all? Why should i? With or against other human players, that you can talk to in teamspeak is just much more fun.

[ACF 0]

The freedom in game is great for the player but a mixed blessing to the mission designer.

When designing a scenario you can spend more time trying to keep the player 'on-mission' than the mission itself.

Take a basic attack v defence - you want the player to go through the enemy line, not round it, so you must either build a continuous front across the island or find some other way of 'encouraging' the player to stay within his boundaries. If you allow too much freedom, or expect a player to play it the same way as you, the point and/or atmosphere of the mission can be lost - potentially a lot of work. If you don't do it, the mission could be deemed 'unchallenging' or something.

I need add on nothing to the addon comments already made . . .

[redface 1]

too many addons are killing OFP.

it takes months to make a decent mission. you release it, and - if it doesn't pass by unnoticed - people say:

* is it MP?

* this and that addon, I can't be a*sed to download them just to play your mission

* why don't you use the newest addon Y instead of addon X?

* I can't believe it, you still use addon X even though person Y has been working on an infinitely superior version of this addon and is pondering release in the next Z couple of weeks

* my crappy computer lags/CTD's on your mission, so your mission is crap

* make it MP and I will try it

[SpecOp9 0]

Spec Op: are you talking mp or sp? Our mission makers make new missions every day, using lots of addons. We have more than 1000 missions on our server. And i know that FDF, SES and Zeus (and many other mp servers/communities too) have talented mission makers too, that make missions containing many of the new addons. So i don't think that there are too few missions using those addons. In MP at least. Couldn't tell about SP as i don't play sp at all? Why should i? With or against other human players, that you can talk to in teamspeak is just much more fun.

I would have to agree MP could play a huge role in it.

i find more fun making MP missions, because more than one person can view and witness your creations at the same time, and generally is more fun for all the players, and your mission gets more attention that way.

But there are some Flashpoint players who don't even bother with Multiplayer.

I was aiming this more towards the Single Player aspect rather than MP. I think MP missions has a thumbs up as far as missions go for. But the SP is very different.

We still have alot of OFP players, but the servers are sometimes empty and only filled with squad members.

[Placebo 28]

Once i've posted some teaser and was banned for a month... Moderator just didnt get teh humor.

Moderator's have a sense of humour the same as anyone else, we do not however consider racism humourous, please do not re-invent history.

[ACF 0]

@ Drill Sergeant: as it's the crux of what we're trying to find out, can you tell us what stops you from making the sort of missions you could develop the 'plots' for?

Less specifically:

Are MP coops against AI as poorly supported as SP? Seems to me that they share the same design needs?

Are CTI and MP missions are better supported because they are less demanding to make work satisfactorily? CTI, at it's lowest level, works because you can't bypass the opposition - they're everywhere and Guard WPs are easy to use. MP HI v HI regulates itself because you want to slot the other bloke first, but you'll get a decent game as he won't be welded to a waypoint in "AWARE".

Is it also a fact that the game is three years old so all the things that can be done easily have been done (pretty much in the official campaigns)? Actually coming up with an original structure is hard before you even decide how you're going to dress it. As time has gone on, the learning cliff has got steeper and higher for new designers who want to reach the Olympian heights of the of established missioneers. I bet a lot don't get through the foothills.

[kegetys 2]

I haven't seen a "lack of missions" problem... But thats propably because I pretty much only play co-op multiplayer, and we have hundreds (if not thousands :P) of missions on our server. Single player missions do not really interest me at all. A well done SP campaign would be interesting, but not just single missions as they lack proper storyline and progress that is a major thing in making an interesting single player experience for me...

[Artak 0]

I voted 'other'.

The OFPEC is running out of submitted SP missions very shortly. I think we have about two or three missions pending which aren't being reviewed at the moment. So I recognize the problem at hand very well.

[edit] I'm talking about SP Missions alone. MP missions are not the problem, I think the community is producing them more than enough. I go with kegetys on that.[/edit]

I've made dozens of missions and only released a few for others to enjoy.

Finishing the mission editing has proven to be the hardest aspect for me, and I know for many other people as well. We all want to bring out the best we can, but building a mission is a long process and as we do it we learn more.

I've found many times that I know a lot more about editing and scripting when I finish a mission than I did when I first started working on it, and thus I know I could make it better. Instead I leave it unpolished and start working on a new mission, with better plot and scripting and all.

Yes, I think that addons are a double sided sword. Using addons may spice up the mission. It also may cause people to avoid playing the mission, if there are too many addons used.

I've had to delete way more missions at OFPEC because of bad addon information than I'm willing to admit. I mean lots! Some people just don't seem to get that if ALL the addons used in a mission aren't stated clearly, it's almost impossible, or at least very time consuming, for the reviewer (or the guy who downloads the mission) to start seaching the web for the right addon.. which propaby has a dependency to three other addons and so on..

Addons should be used to enforce the mission athmosphere, yes. Do it wisely and don't overdo it.

Still, it seems to me that addons are the thing now. You can see it anywhere you look. The OFP news we see are 95% about new / beta / alpha / under construction addons. Hey, it's ok. I don't have a problem with that as long as it keeps the community alive.

In my mind there shouldn't be 87 different G36 or Ak47 addons all with three different sights versions. Stuff like the new AEF Train addon is good. I think it's the best addon since GFX's mortar  

Anyway, back on topic. What was I saying about missions before going on sidetracks about addons. Oh yeah, Mission Makers, finish those missions. Don't submit anything utterly bad, but don't be afraid to submit something YOU think isn't good. Have your mission beta tested in for example the OFPEC's beta testing board. Nobody there says it's crap, they just say what you could do better.

You can do short attack / defend missions. I enjoy those. Not every mission maker should attempt to build something like MFCTI or a 15 objective "campaign in a mission" type of things. If everyone does that, it's no wonder we don't have any new missions coming out soon.

Keep it simple

Do it good

Watch out for those addons

Have it beta tested

Submit it

I wish you all good luck and happy editing. OFP's mission editor is after all the thing that has kept me here for all this time and I know it's just that for you too.  

[ACF 0]

Don't know the background to the above, but can't resist pointing out the obvious that if we can't re-invent history we'll have even less missions to play!

[sander 14]

Hi,

The OFP mission editor is a great tool and certainly one of the main enduring attractions of the game. It can be used for relatively quickly setting up a situation for an enjoyable 'fast food' game. A good mission though is more like a decent meal and takes considerably more effort and time preparing, time and effort I prefer to put into making new troops. To get around the lack of decent missions for them, I tend to unpack existing mission files and replace the units to those of addons of my choice. The resulting mission might not be entirely original, but it provides a better gaming experience with new addons than I am likely to get when building an entire mission (as opposed to a momentary snapshot editor only mission) from scratch.

Regards,

Sander

[Flo_Wer 0]

I think that the problem is not the lack of missions in Operation Flashpoint, but the lack of good missions in Operation Flashpoint.

It's easier to start making a mission than an addon. But i think it's more difficult to finish and debug a mission than a addon. You have to guess all kind of players'action, random situations etc...

[igor drukov 0]

I voted "other".

I am mainly interested in SP mission-making, because IMHO you can there fully use the possibilities used by OFP (especially the DROP command, cutscenes, and dialogs). This obviously does not mean that I do not find some MP missions awesome.

However, as redface said, to make a good mission takes an awfully long time. Plot, scripting, cutscenes, dialogs, testing, can give you full-time work for more than a year.

Moreover, mission-makers will receive less gratification than addon-makers, because basically everybody, having access to the editor, think they can do the same, and even better.

Let us not overlook the issue of addons, as the conscientious mission-maker will try to use as few of them as possible, so as to increase the number of potential players. But by doing so, he will also increase the likeliness of creating disappointment.

Mission-making is therefore a tedious, thankless, unrewarding task. The shortage should be no wonder.

[Winters 1]

Maybe a shortage of missions because there are a shortage of good mission makers. I can count on one hand the number of truly talented mission makers there are including myself.

[qUiLL 0]

i used to make tons of missions but the problem was 2 things:

1. little inconsistencies. when you try making one unit do one thing or a group do some sort of maneuver, opf is so dynamic theres a good chance it wont always happen. it becomes very frustrating....ive given up many a time because of this.

2. disinterest. id start making one mission and itd take too long for my patience to complete or require too much work, and id move to something else i thought better but that needed less work, only to find it needed just as much work.

dont get me wrong. im not some n00b mission maker either. if you looked through my missions you'd find for the most part they are very well made and have some really complex stuff in them (one of my quarter-completed missions has "radiation", along with a geiger counter, NBC protected vehicles and anomalies...along the line of stalker!) but ive just never had the motivation to finish them, and ontop of that, when they do get near completion, i just play them myself so much that i never bother releasing them :-p i also have a mission where its like the tfc map "warpath" where you are restricted to one road and you would have been able to build stuff and all....i lost interest again :-p. another not quite mission i have but an addon that was suposed to allow unit-class abilities i have half completed. you just add a line into your intro.sqs and put a folder in the mission folder and wham! all the units have special abilities like in tfc. of course this wasnt fully finished either but medics could deploy med tents and revive the wounded, engineers could build pontoon bridges using pallets and something else although i forget what, MGers at the very least could deploy M2MG's, their other skill i never finished, sabateurs could deploy cameras. i even tried making it so snipers could climb trees but there was some reason why that wasnt really possible without an incredible ammount of work...i also made this kickass UH60 gunner mission that had the airwolf theme song goin in the backround and was very good except it definitely wasnt presentable either...the uh60 wouldnt always point in the right direction despite my attempts to make it do so, sometimes the shilka id have firing towards the uh60 would actually hit it and cause it to go down

so anyhow yea, there ya go :-p but the missions i have released if you look at them are REALLY crappy because they are extremely simple stuff that i didnt even bother polishing up. oh yea did i mention...i forget who but me and some other guy, OPF GOLF!? yeeep thats right :-p and you cant have it haha

[sasyboy 0]

My frustrations

1) Can't see where an object is placed exactly as it would in the world

2) Some common variables need to be assigned in code. setHeight

3) Spelling mistakes for variables are not sometimes picked up and a new variable is declared.

4) Debuging is sometimes difficult

5) No function support, so no libery support. I know you can make loads of sqs files but liberys would be cool

6) The muliplayer tell all the clients about this variable change thing. Making global variables should be easier for users to find out.

7) Breif / Objective maker could be intergrated

8) Actions need to be listed somehow

9) Weapons / Magazines need to be listed somehow

10) The ? (booleanconditional) : doThis could be used in editor and not just in scripts as well as, # and ~

11) Cut seens should be more eaiser to make, maybe without coding but anouther editor

12) MP unit / section requirements dosn't suit every. (I don't see how you can get arround this one)

13) Markers should be more contolable in game.

I think a lot of these points maybe because of my lack of knowladge. Again OFP is cracking and none of us know everything about it. Could someone quote me and put in solutions to the above.

[berghoff 11]

There's only lack in single-player misssions, believe me. Just look on some co-op or squad servers, there are a lot of misssions in there.

However, making a good SP mission takes a lot longer, with cutscene/voice-overs and story. Took me weeks to make 1 sp mission, =) maybe I'm just a bad mission editor hehe.

[The Real Armstrong 0]

Let me quote myself in another thread:

Quote[/b] ]I really do not see the problem. Sure, there's more addons than missions but whatever man. Just look at other games, like Max Payne for example. I looked around for AGES to find a decent mission. I didn't find a single one, even though I downloaded about 20.

Now, I go to OFPEC, check the pending section and there's a new SP submission almost every day. Quick, clean and most of the missions are waaaaay better than other games' community made missions.

Those who know me also know my curse and the reason why I have not realesed a mission yet.

[BoweryBaker 0]

I voted other. My reason for low mission count on my behalf is that I have two missions finished, however I keep changing them, and their to be part of a campaign. i did a survey and people like it when you release the entire campaign.

[Milkman 1]

Guys I have something to admit:

I have 26 missions, all of pretty good quality on my harddrive, varied from 10% to 99% completion all created by me. I have millions of ideas for campaigns either written down on paper or in my head. Problem is I never finish them, the ones I do finish are obsolete by time of completion. Many I don't dristibute because I have no host sight. I gave up on submitting them to ofpec.com long ago since they take so long to process and rate. It seems I always start making a mission, but lose interest within a few hours. I don't know what I should do, delete them all or release them as unfinished.

[monty67t 0]

Well, I voted other. I am in the mission editor everyday making coops for my squad. I think the problem is a combination of addons and the crap you have to go through to get your missions available for download. Also, I don't like making waypoints for every unit. I would rather give an insertion point, an objective, and an extraction point. Let the players figure everything else out. Leave it open, screw END TRIGGERS. I mean, in real life there's no window or text that pops up and tells you when a village is secure. But, if you release a mission like that, you get evil feedback. There are so many addons out there, that becomes an issue. It's a turn-off if you have to go download a bunch of addons to play a mission. Also, like someone said above, most OFP websites have a bunch of shit you have to go through to get your missions added to their site. It's just a pain in the ass. I would imagine that their is a ton of people like Milkman that have a bunch of missions that they have created that just either haven't been finished or are finished and just not available to the public.

Monty