European Politics Thread.

[vilas 477]

i said it long ago - it all goes to "conspiracy plan" to turn EU into Year 1984 - but many still not believe and call it idiotism

and yes, EU now works on complete ban on weapons including already given permissions to sport (single shot) AKMS or M4 too (which my family owns on sport license)

and ban shotguns in Austria

than police would force taking "refugee" to your home. for criminals no punishment , commies in power, than some confiscate of property, huge taxes - and welcome to horror

also in Austria you have many rifles, \

EU should break as soon as possible or we need total change of "elites" of EU

only who will have guns in future EU will be bandits, army, police (probably due to nepotism, corruption only for chosen), judges (the same nepotism) and politicians,

in very disarmed Poland, the most armed civilians group are : parliament members, judges, prosecutors , top rich businesmen, alsmost every politician has gun from left to right, almost all judges have guns,

having problem with eye like not reading numbers from Ishihara tables disables you from having permit as well,

in my country lots of people now try to get gun on sport license (me too) and there are lots of troubles if new EU regulation comes, than all sport licenses are withdrawn (legall owned single shot AKMS , M4 would be no longer allowed)

bandit will always get gun, politician, judge too

EU thinks following : "there will be more and more extremism from upcoming crisis in future, our elites must remain in power no matter how" and "you were robbed, great, now we must be sure you will not be able to defend" - the same with migration - have you read what i wrout about our army excersizes in last days of rule of previous gov ?

[dontknowhow 33]

everyone knows who is jihadist and shouts for shaira and let him act - i would say

If you say that anyone shouting for sharia is a jihadist you are jumping to conclusions

 

when  you will understand that "united people" is utopia ?

every region /nation/city has its business and competee for his own proft

I have to say that this amount of selfishness is staggering, but it's not only selfishness. There is a good amount of mistrust, especially in cases like intelligence agencies. And there is a huge amount of inertia, or maybe carelessness. Then, when the shit hits the fan, people start moving.

Yes, it's disappointing. But we moved quite a way since 1957. What can I say? Hope dies last.

 

if you want real solidarity in EU - we should build such solidarity on every area - maybe lets start from you taxed to fund me flat (if i worked in 1 job only i would have 650 EU per month) ;) ... ooo won't happen ?

Actually, we might even do that. It just wouldn't work. Your economy has to grow because you do your job, not because we give you money. That's why you don't get money for your flat, but your government gets money for investments.

By the way, I read that your BGK bank is in business with the European Investment Fund. So you do get help for your flat.

 

one thing we should do is really fight jihadists, extreme radical islamists - can we do it ? or again you will say that arresting someone cause he demands sharia and support jihad is racism ?

you said it  or IndeedPete ?  when i said we should arrest and outlaw such things as jihad , you said "they not commited any crimes so it would be racism" (something like this)

It was about sharia and yes, you can't kick people out just because they say things you don't like. If you want to consider them criminals you have to make a law first, like they have in Germany with nazi stuff, or in Italy with fascism.

Jihad is not Sharia. Encouraging violence is indeed a crime, and imams that do it usually are kicked out. I guess it's the same everywhere in the union

 

WE CANNOT FIGHT ISIS WHEN JIHAD IDEOLOGY IS LEGAL

I really don't think it is. But I need a lawyer to confirm that.

 

EU is planning to ban half automatic rifles (even shotguns are in threat). It has been now rushed on the table because of the recent events. A law that won't help anyone and terrorists get their gun in different way. Even deactivated guns will be collected from people.

It actually seems that deactivated firearms are quite a problem. Particularly those coming from Slovakia, don't know why.

They also say that only certain semi automatic firearms won't be available:

 

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-15-6111_en.htm

 

I don't know, personally for me it's not a big problem, but I fail to understand what they try to achieve. As if with that directive they could stop smuggling.

 

EDIT: on the other side, in case you think firearms are the solution against terrorism, maybe you can ask yourselves what they can do against a bomb.

 

EDIT 2: concerning the poor colonies forced to take refugees, someone is in an even worse condition:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-terror-attacks/can-governors-block-syrian-refugees-well-it-depends-n465171

 

They don't even get to vote. It's very interesting, because in a vote they might actually win.

[vilas 477]

bullet cannot stop bomb, but if i saw man walking , shooting people and changing magazines for 15 minutes before first policeman arrives, i could take him down with bullet 

[dontknowhow 33]

bullet cannot stop bomb

exactly

 

but if i saw man walking , shooting people and changing magazines for 15 minutes before first policeman arrives, i could take him down with bullet 

In that case you better go around with a rifle and a kevlar shield, because even the police had problems taking them down, as you have probably seen. And those cops were not amateurs.

It's actually surprising that they were pinned down like that.

[vilas 477]

it is matter of perspective, if something was on my street and i live on 3rd floor i could take down, other is when i am on ground and someone is on roof , 

it is just technical issue when/how etc. + training (i know policemen shooting 10 bullets a year while i was shooting sometimes 300 in month)

but issue is other - issue in philosophy of EU nowadays going to use this what happens against hard working taxpayers and native citizens

[dontknowhow 33]

it is matter of perspective, if something was on my street and i live on 3rd floor i could take down, other is when i am on ground and someone is on roof , 

it is just technical issue when/how etc. 

Call it a technical issue. If your plan is to shoot someone from the 3rd floor I think I'm happy with the weapon control. Sorry. Especially considering what comes with the whole package, which we know from somewhere else in the world.

Besides, you should consider how long you need to take your rifle and shoot. No, the only way it can be useful is that you are there when they start shooting. Have fun with your pistol against an AK-47.

 

but issue is other - issue in philosophy of EU nowadays going to use this what happens against hard working taxpayers and native citizens

I do think that the EU could do much better, but I would prefer to wait before having people shooting from the 3rd floor.

And once more, that doesn't help against bombs. And it's not very effective against bullet proof vests.

Not that I am completely against it, it's just that I think there are better ways. Loosening the gun control would be a last resort.

[Tonci87 163]

it is matter of perspective, if something was on my street and i live on 3rd floor i could take down, other is when i am on ground and someone is on roof , 

it is just technical issue when/how etc. + training (i know policemen shooting 10 bullets a year while i was shooting sometimes 300 in month)

but issue is other - issue in philosophy of EU nowadays going to use this what happens against hard working taxpayers and native citizens

 

That thinking is pretty stupid Vilas. You know what would really happen n such a situation? The police would arrive, be a bit scared and confused, unsure what is really going on. They would see you armed, not know if you are one of the attackers and simply shoot you.

In such a situation it is best for civilians to stay away and in cover and let the professionals deal with the threat. Anything else just adds to the confusion and puts more people at risk.

[vilas 477]

if in Switzerland someone with AK shouting Allah Akbar would be walking in city shooting pedestrians - i think they would shoot him in second, 

in EU he would kill 30 people and ammo would end (or barrel would get too hot to shoot) before police would come

police would not be confused when they would arrived cause such terrorist would be dead already

[dontknowhow 33]

if in Switzerland someone with AK shouting Allah Akbar would be walking in city shooting pedestrians - i think they would shoot him in second,

I strongly doubt it

 

police would not be confused when they would arrived cause such terrorist would be dead already

killed by you? Did you join the JW GROM?

[vilas 477]

what can EU do when 1 man with Ak and 5 magazines walks on street and shoot to any spotted pedestrian ? 

nothing, EU citizens are helpless

but in case when mentally checked (by psychological tests, not like in USA) person, who has in his metal cabinet (safe) stored weapon see such thing from his window (a man walking shouting shooting) than such act can be quited before it gets massacre

at the moment EU gets more and more disarming helpless population - which may result in many actions like Paris 

for simple reason - time till police will come is dozen minutes, 

but in big city hundreds , thousands people walk on streets, 1 jihadist with AK can make massacre , 

also what if 10 robbing migrants would attack farm/property of someone with stones and axes

[oxmox 73]

if in Switzerland someone with AK shouting Allah Akbar would be walking in city shooting pedestrians - i think they would shoot him in second, 

in EU he would kill 30 people and ammo would end (or barrel would get too hot to shoot) before police would come

police would not be confused when they would arrived cause such terrorist would be dead already

 

By whom in seconds in Switzerland ?

 

The vast majority of weapon owners who are part of the Swiss Militia (active or none active) are allowed to store their weapon at home but without ammuntion.

 It is not allowed in general to carry guns in public or abuse military weapons for private use, Switzerland is not the USA with a right of "individual self defence" in form of the the 2nd armendment.

 

Lots of misinterpretations about Swiss gun laws by pro-gun lobbies.

 

 

at the moment EU gets more and more disarming helpless population - which may result in many actions like Paris

 

 

Probably not even in the US you could carry weapons during a music concert ...

Guns n Alcohol - dont mix.

[Tonci87 163]

What makes you think that you would pass such a psychological test vilas? Because I bet with that "I´ll try to get the evil terrorists myself" mentality you would fail the test pretty hard.

[sudayev 27]

 Well fucking played who is trying to rush that law.

 

 

Thanks to Elżbieta Bieńkowska (Poland) of the infamous Civic Platform. Person absolutely loyal to President of the EC Donald Tusk who is loyal to Merkel and foreign interest. Generally this post-commie and socialist mindset of Civic Platform. We had much more of that shit during last eight years of their rule in Poland. I'm sorry for them...

 

Nevertheless I knew it was coming. People are more and more disappointed of the EU politics. A politics that is aimed against normal and native citizens of many countries not to mention forcing multiculturalism by pushing more and more aliens from Middle East and Africa towards us. Who knows maybe the EU think people would start "open season" on immigrants. The EU is fearing the people might rise and use weapons against them when necessary, thus making the gun laws - more strict. Moreover who is responsible for terrorst attack in France - not islamic terrorists with roots in Syria and Morocco but French and Belgians. Normal Belgian people feel guilty now because of stupid political correctness when it comes to naming the suspects

 

This is ridiculous... So perhaps say goodbye to your AK or AR

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_en.htm

Like the terrorists are buying weapons legally. 

 

 

Share this petition to as many persons as possible. Friends, family, anyone even your pets can sign it.

https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the-european-union-eu-you-cannot-stop-terrorism-by-restricting-legal-gun-ownership?recruiter=429945222&utm_campaign=signature_receipt_fb_dialog&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

[vilas 477]

By whom in seconds in Switzerland ?

 

The vast majority of weapon owners who are part of the Swiss Militia (active or none active) are allowed to store their weapon at home but without ammuntion.

 

 

 

i thought they have Sig 550 in homes but i didn't know about no ammo, than it is nonsense to have rifle without ammo 

 

 

Probably not even in the US you could carry weapons during a music concert ...

Guns n Alcohol - dont mix.

agree but i said about different situation, carrying weapon to club should be banned of course, 

you sit in home, read books, now you hear shouting "allah akbar" and guy walks on street and shooting pedestrians 

in such situation you cannot help, 

if you had rifle with ammo, you take it, shoot guy and people are saved , and in those 10 minutes when first policeman (with pistol) arrives dozens pedestrian may be killed by one allah akbar 

 

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/uk-muslim-converted-from-islam-to-christianity-attacked-with-pickaxe/

or such situation 

 

but most important is people could have tools to stop when government goes to tyranny than such street fights  because politicians do not afraid of us and thats why they do not follow pre-voting promisses - now Putin trusts more to Russians and Russians trust more to Putin than European leaders respect us

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people from this Civic Platform few years ago even had idea to ban longer knives too 

[spooky lynx 73]

Seems that the situation with guns in EU becomes very sorrowful... Here people struggle for enlarging the list of weapons permitted for sale in civil market, so they could buy all kinds of pistols (not only some rubber guns or 9x17), own legally all kinds of mags (now only 10 rnd may be legally owned) etc. Banning all the weapons and collecting them is just a bullshit, because nothing can stop any thugs from getting some illegal arms.

[dontknowhow 33]

what can EU do when 1 man with Ak and 5 magazines walks on street and shoot to any spotted pedestrian ? 

nothing, EU citizens are helpless

true. But here's the thing: when they come, I'm toast, no matter what. Now, I'd rather be toast with a gun than without it, and that's the reason why I'm not completely against it, but it's me there with a gun, not you shooting from the third floor

The best solution is to prevent them from toasting me in the first place

 

but in case when mentally checked (by psychological tests, not like in USA) person,

okay, this is at least something

 

who has in his metal cabinet (safe) stored weapon see such thing from his window (a man walking shouting shooting) than such act can be quited before it gets massacre

okay, so you are talking about the case when a terrorist passes by your window, without bullet proof vest, and stays long enough for you to look outside, go take your safely stored weapon, and shoot from the third floor.

Doesn't sound very helpful, to be honest. And you don't need a semi automatic rifle to do that anyway.

 

The vast majority of weapon owners who are part of the Swiss Militia (active or none active) are allowed to store their weapon at home but without ammuntion.

 It is not allowed in general to carry guns in public or abuse military weapons for private use, Switzerland is not the USA with a right of "individual self defence" in form of the the 2nd armendment.

Actually, Wikipedia says:

 

 

However, it is generally not permitted to keep army-issued ammunition, but compatible ammunition purchased for privately owned guns is permitted

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

 

I am not sure if the SIG SG 550 classifies as privately owned. The meaning is not completely clear. Could not find any other information.

[vilas 477]

 

 

 army-issued ammunition

 

so difference is in who finance it ;) now it makes sense 

 

 

okay, so you are talking about the case when a terrorist passes by your window, without bullet proof vest, and stays long enough for you to look outside, go take your safely stored weapon, and shoot from the third floor.

yes

in other situation gun would not help much more (except psychological effect on some of  assaulters )

but there are situations (rare indeed, but they are) when 1 drunk idiot with axe goes by street, attacks people, he is drunk but has ax and is dangerous , mentally ill and shouts, 

in case of future events in EU it may be needed cause Paris attacks will be more often , there may be men who simply stand on street shout religious stuff and shoot people around, 

there may be groups of angry thugs attacking property etc. 

also problem of how much government can do things against taxpayer - this is even more important than bandits threat, 

and thats why in all not fully democratic structures in past weapons were banned (communism) 

future doesn't look as much free and democratic and pro-taxpayers as it used to be (after all it is taxpayer who is boss of politician, not viceversa, state doesn't exist without taxes, state is organization made to do things for sake of taxpayer , in feudalism it is of course vice versa, in feudalism people are to work for king profit)

--------

 

edit from last hour:

Israel made opposite - made weapons more available to public so public can shoot attacking stabbers  - source The Jerusalem Post 

[dontknowhow 33]

yes

In that case I'm sure you are aware of the low probability of such an event. Even because, if the terrorist stands still in the 30 seconds you need to take your rifles, everybody is either dead or gone. Your terrorist will just stand there waiting for you to shoot him

It's not going to happen. If you want to save the day you have to go after him.

 

also problem of how much government can do things against taxpayer - this is even more important than bandits threat, 

and thats why in all not fully democratic structures in past weapons were banned (communism)

I'm not sure exactly what's in your mind, but I have the strong feeling you have a slightly wrong picture of the situation.

 

EDIT: by the way, I went for a chat with a guy at BT (British Telecom). They are downsizing from 800 to about 400, because they have outsourced part of the jobs to India and Hungary. It seems that BT has a big center in Budapest, because salaries are lower.

 

So, what if I now start complaining because you steal jobs?

[vilas 477]

 

 

So, what if I now start complaining because you steal jobs?

 

people on the west have the same enemy we have - simply you not grown to hate them enough, they will downgrade you all too, because for you "bildeberg club" is something like "aaa guys talk about aliens, masonery, Jewish conspiracy too" , 

greed of guys ruling corporations are primary enemy of humankind, 

 

 

 

if the terrorist stands still in the 30 seconds

in the internet they wrote (journalists) that guy from Paris was walking not 30 second, but 10 minutes 

we had in internet also movie from surveillance camera when one man murdered other man with baseball blat here in Poland, he was arrested by police but it was dozen minutes when he was slaughtering other person , he get maybe 7 years, 

in my neigborhood there were junkies running with needle threatening they have AIDS on that needle and if you not give them money they will hit you with needle , 

those junkies (drug addicted scum) had AIDS and was robbing people using dirty needle instead of knife and he threatened kids on yard, 

it was ca. 15 minutes before police patrol came and arrested him, maybe he get 2 years , 

self defence not against profesionally trained terrorist - but against usual thug, against bandit who is drunk, drug addicted (on amphetamine people do not feel pain - i know it cause once i had such action) or mentally disabled killer - for such cases gun can help

how can you help in gang rape ?

you are alone, there are 5 guys, what you can do alone ? 

but having weapon you can (even shooting in leg to stop them till police will come)

EU problem is also problem with sense and manner of self defence , not only having rifle, but even when we would kill bandit with bayonet we would have trouble "why do you carry bayonet" etc. 

in USA before Obama noone asked such questions i believe when it comes to protect property, life, health etc. 

[vilas 477]

http://wpolityce.pl/swiat/272841-wiekszosc-brytyjczykow-chce-wyjscia-ich-kraju-z-ue

 

in one poll 52% Brits for exit EU 

[dontknowhow 33]

greed of guys ruling corporations are primary enemy of humankind, 

I actually sort of agree with that, but I still wonder how come that we make colonies, we destroy economies, we profit and exploit, yet, when jobs move from here to there, suddenly the fault is of the guys ruling the corporations.

How about you stop complaining instead?

 

in the internet they wrote (journalists) that guy from Paris was walking not 30 second, but 10 minutes 

Exactly, he was walking. He won't be a target for a long time.

 

You know, if you are so sure, you can take a bolt action rifle and wait for a terrorist to come in front of your window and wait for you to shoot him. I'm sure one will come eventually. You just wait there.

[vilas 477]

I actually sort of agree with that, but I still wonder how come that we make colonies, we destroy economies, we profit and exploit, yet, when jobs move from here to there, suddenly the fault is of the guys ruling the corporations.

 

it is simple

they care that local market is happy and without serious problems and serious tensions because in more transparent conditions they have to take care much more , 

when they have possibility they would abuse you too, simply in 90s after communism fallen "new market opened" so thanx to this west had very good growth and people in west lived better, 

people who are greed and criminals do as much evil as they are allowed, when they know control is bigger (transparency, ostracism of nepotism etc.) they act much delicate ,

also they can than abuse those "abroad", 

when those abroad "have no money, do not buy new products" than they start to look how to abuse others (and if they can find others to abuse), 

this is really simple and i do not understand why you fail to see conections

people who lead corporations are greedy, but also they do not want to have troubles in their "homelands" (some of them love charity game), but also western voter is more assertive (so they care to not have troubles there),

when they destroyed our industry - than west get suddenly not only open market (selling zone) but also our specialists became cheap labor, 

when corporations (who were in past decades more national) became totally global (last years) than those corporations start to use opportunity and reduce your wealth too, 

algorithm for this is simple:

greed > destroy competition > sell there and transfer profit to have more profit > when achieved cheap labor there > move part of your business to cheaper place (if you are allowed) > more profit than before 

but they cannot directly hit "their" countries cause their courts, governments would punish them harsh, 

instead of this from transferred profit they are funding "few schools, hospitals" and western public loves them and says "how can you say they are evil", 

this is how colonies worked , person in one country had profit coming from suffering of person in other country, but you must remember that corporations also are changing, 

business from 80s/90s is not business from 2015/2020,

if someone want to make more profit, he looks for any way to minimize cost, he cannot minimize costs anymore here, so he starts to minimize costs in your country too now, but 10-20 years ago your governments were much more protectionist, so corporations acted differently too and than they were doing neo-colonial activity and now as result i buy German/French product in German/French shop for credit in German/UK bank and electricity goes through German/French wires from German/French power plant (as result profits partly feed German/French market)  , 

when someone want to monopolize market first he destroys competition, when competition is destroyed, than monopolist dictate his rules to everyone, 

 

simple example:

labor code in our countries, labor code in your countries - different labor rights - your corporation respect your worker, but the same corporation abuse our worker - difference comes from different code/law/courts/sanctions, 

market surveillance - the same, in this area i worked for decade and i contacted with guys from west and i was jealous for tickets they could give to not honest company, 

where there are big strikes (labor meaning of word strike) ? in the west 

western worker has much better conditions (not only financial, health but even mobbing laws are different), corporations know it, thats why first they were abusing us here - cause they had profits from us and you had better rights, 

now when everyone is in deep debt - they cannot such us more than they are sucking, so they look for new victim to suck, 

but fact that few companies moved their employment to cheap labor countries doesn't mean that rest will do it, 

supermarkets cannot move, they sell everywhere, they must care for better conditions for your in your market so they have lower profit there (in percent) so they suck profit from us here, Orban kicked them , i hope our new gov will kick them too, to achieve similar conditions for workers as you have, 

[dontknowhow 33]

when they have possibility they would abuse you too

It's obvious they would abuse me too, and that's the problem. It's also the reason why there are some rules in place.

Just don't think you are the victims, because you aren't. Definitely you are not our victims, and you are not victims of corporations more than us, as you can see from the jobs being moved.

[vilas 477]

but percent of jobs being moved in few of corporations is small, 

how many thousands people from such big market ? 

compare with eastern europe unemployment 90s/00s 

you said about few hundreds of jobs, if it is multiplied by several companies, than it is still very small percent , 

so you say like "everyone lost someone during WW2" but in some countries people lost 20% in some 2% 

[dontknowhow 33]

you said about few hundreds of jobs, if it is multiplied by several companies, than it is still very small percent

The guy said about half, and it's just in the Amsterdam office. BT is pretty big, and from what I understand they moved a lot of jobs to Budapest from several places.

 

so you say like "everyone lost someone during WW2" but in some countries people lost 20% in some 2% 

and some countries ad a communist regime for 50 years, some countries didn't. There isn't much I can do about it, that's the way it is, sorry. That hasn't much to do with corporations, you just can't pretend the same situation there as it is here. It takes time