Fox hunting Ban

[Gollum1 0]

Nature is a conscious entity that can give you something now?

Holy shit! 2 hard words in one sentence!

I'll pass this one

No seriously i don't understand what you're saying

Ok.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]So why can't we be defined as "fucked up animals" and just leave it at that, it's OK then?

Because we should be intelligent enough to realize that killing for entertainment only isn't very nice...

I thought you said we shouldn't think we're all superior.

[MrZig 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well sorry

I was talking about foxes

You replied

so i thought you were talking about foxes too

And no you didn't scream, i was just kinda offended by your reaction. Nothing to worry about... i'm weird...

What am i making up?

No, you were talking about crulety in general, fishing and fox hunting.

[DarkLight 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well sorry

I was talking about foxes

You replied

so i thought you were talking about foxes too

And no you didn't scream, i was just kinda offended by your reaction.  Nothing to worry about... i'm weird...

What am i making up?

No, you were talking about crulety in general, fishing and fox hunting.

Ok sorry sorry

I guess we all kinda know eachothers opinion by now...

Oh and sorry if i swear too much or if it sounds like i'm being a dick to someone or stuff like that...

I just swear a lot when i speak english, i dunno why, it's just my way of speaking english i guess...

Sorry if i insulted anyone...  

English isn't my first language so i don't really realize how 'hard' the words are that i use... and i cna get rather pissed off when i read stuff about things getting killed.

As you might've guessed already, i have huuuge respect for all forms of life...

[SgtBarnes 0]

Why can't they do drag hunting instead? then they can keep there jobs.

Drag hunting is still 'Hunting with dogs', and will therefore be banned under this legislation.

[Placebo 28]

As you might've guessed already, i have huuuge respect for all forms of life...

Except homosapiens

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Having read some of the replies here it just seems that people dont really understand the issues, only that they dont like the idea of a pretty furry creature being chased and harressed until it dies or is killed.

I'm sure any of the 'hunters' or actually anybody whos ever ACTUALLY talked a hunter and they will know that the number of actual foxes hunted are small maybe even less than 50 per year.  The number of offical club hunts that end in the death of the fox is even less than 10%. (Home office Stats from 2000 - do a search)

Foxes ARE LEGALY classified as Vermin in the UK.  In some areas of London and other major cites in the UK, City councils spend Å10,000's a year poisoning them to reduce the ever spiralling populations.  The reason for the increase in populations is us.

We reduced their natural habit with farming, forcing them to scavenge in and around towns and farms.  Now they've discovered some 100% years ago that food was easier to come by in cities than in the countryside. There are fewer foxes in the countryside now than there are in the cities of the UK. In central London the average size of a litter of pups is twice that of the country, the survivial rate is 3 times higher (Source is the LBC pest control site).  

Now the irony of this is that people are petitioning local government to exterminate the foxes becasue of health concerns, public nuisance and fears over diseases carried by foxes that could be passed to domestic pets.  Yet the same people are also against fox hunting.  Its alright to poison them and give them a lingering and apparently painful death but as long as they arent being chased around and killed by hounds its acceptable.

I agree the being hunted and killed by dogs isnt a nice way to die, but faced with the chance of escape and the near certain lingering death of poisoned food i'd choose the hunt everytime, at least there is the possiblity of escape.

My last comment on this is my own personal opinion directed at all the people who are voicing there outrage at Fox hunting etc.

You are being manipulated by the media and a small group of people that seem micro focused on one small problem and disredarding the context completely.  You are reacting to what you are being shown and not even thinking about it.

I'm all for respecting wildlife and being nice to "Basil Brush" (UK kids TV Fox) but it would be some much easier if people actually got the facts straight before emotionally reacting to the image.

[adam.ni 0]

I am against the ban.  As this ban only applies really to the reasoning of one type of fox hunting with dogs.  I also belive the figures on the number killed every year is extremely low at 30-50 try at least 3000-10000.  My friend used to do hunting and it was pest control (and he used to kill about 20-30 a year himself on hunts) he used to live on a farm and the fact is when there was a time before battery farms foxes were a big problem.  The thing is isnt there a EU legislation banning battery hen farming to come into use in the near future?  I cant wait till we have a fox plague and no one gets their eggs or chicken from locally in the future.  The thing is humans arnt the only animal that kills for sport or fun.  If you had ever seen a fox run havoc in a chicken coup or killing flightless birds then you would know what i am on about they also kill its part of their instinct just like hunting is a part of ours obviously those against hunting have never tried hunting in any form and therefore would never understand (think if your dad or friend was to take you hunting at a young age like they do when you go fishing for the first time do you think you would have the same views?).  I also want to retain the ability to hunt with dogs just incase Guba gets his way and we end up with a nuclear winter of some sort and need to hunt again .  And you people who think that a gun would be more humane way of killing the animal think again I have seen at first hand what bullet wounds are like.  Think very carefully what is the bullet doing as it goes through your flesh it is TEARING it to pieces.  Headshots dont always kill and we should all know that.  It might be slightly less traumatic since you dont actually get enough time to squeal as the bullet starts to tear your flesh and most of the time it leaves you wounded and if it get away think of the amount of suffering it has to go through before it dies as a weakened animal.  And for all those thinking that fishing might be a less traumatic sport think of it like this way imagine a SF team hunting you down for 30 minutes forcing you to sprint the whole time imagine the amount of shock and lactic acid build up in your muscles then imagine someone sticks a bag over your head just as you need the oxygen the most.  Then also ontop of that you might have your skin ripped off and your lip cut to pieces.  Do you think you would live long after all that (think of how salmon die after doing their reproductive run).  To make a point i am against the ban as i have had personal experience in a form of fox hunting with dogs more in the way of less dogs chasing them on foot (as i am not a rich git with a horse) much prefere my DPM   .

[DarkLight 0]

As you might've guessed already, i have huuuge respect for all forms of life...

Except homosapiens  

Hell yeah! I hate each one of you!

And myself

[sniperuk02 0]

Poor hunting dogs will now have to be killed

foxes rip chickens turkeys ducks cats rabbits and many other animals apart for fun and and no one but the owners complain

[Bordoy 0]

Poor hunting dogs will now have to be killed

foxes rip chickens turkeys ducks cats rabbits and many other animals apart for fun and and no one but the owners complain

No they won't. The dogs get killed every year once there past there prime also they can go into drag hunting so no killing.

[adam.ni 0]

Poor hunting dogs will now have to be killed

foxes rip chickens turkeys ducks cats rabbits and many other animals apart for fun and and no one but the owners complain

No they won't. The dogs get killed every year once there past there prime also they can go into drag hunting so no killing.

HAHAHA shows how little you know. Old hunting dogs are usually kept to breed new hunting dogs.

[sniperuk02 0]

meh fair enough

btw darklight do you hate the jumpping tits homoseipain in you sig?

[Placebo 28]

Yet the same people are also against fox hunting. Its alright to poison them and give them a lingering and apparently painful death but as long as they arent being chased around and killed by hounds its acceptable.

If I had to choose between being poisoned and a slow lingering death or being chased for hours by a pack of dogs until I'm exhausted and terrified and then ripped apart in their teeth until I'm dead I'll take the poison thank you

[HotShot 0]

There must be some sort of poison that makes an animal sleepy, then kills them off? Like what they inject into pets to 'put them to sleep'?

[adam.ni 0]

Yet the same people are also against fox hunting.  Its alright to poison them and give them a lingering and apparently painful death but as long as they arent being chased around and killed by hounds its acceptable.

If I had to choose between being poisoned and a slow lingering death or being chased for hours by a pack of dogs until I'm exhausted and terrified and then ripped apart in their teeth until I'm dead I'll take the poison thank you

The death isnt slow i know that . A very large misconception with hunting.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Yet the same people are also against fox hunting.  Its alright to poison them and give them a lingering and apparently painful death but as long as they arent being chased around and killed by hounds its acceptable.

If I had to choose between being poisoned and a slow lingering death or being chased for hours by a pack of dogs until I'm exhausted and terrified and then ripped apart in their teeth until I'm dead I'll take the poison thank you

Mate, if i had a chance, even a small one of escaping i'd take it. There is no escaping poisoned food.

I'm sure any animal sentient or no would do everything it could to survive if pushed hard enough.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Has anyone actually studied the stress levels on a fox during a hunt or anything like that? I honestly reckon the adrenaline levels in a fox as it's being chased are great enough that it wouldn't get too stressed until it was cornered or after it escaped. I thought part of the fight or flight mechanism in most animals was there so that they didn't get terrified when chased and freeze.

Also, poisoning rural fox populations is unfeasable, they eat fresh meat as much as possible and you can't lace a live chicken with poison without killing it. The only reason they can do it in urban areas is because urban foxes raid bins and landfill sites eating anything out of them so it's possible to put poisons in the bin that the foxes may consume.

There is also little or no adverse knock-on effect from poisons entering the food-chain within an urban environment because a decaying fox carcass can be usually be found and removed by council workers, and anything found in cities that feeds on carrion is usually vermin anyway so nobody gives two-shits what else the poison gets passed on to and kills. In the countryside however there are more important species that will feed on carrion such as raptors (falcons, eagles etc, not the dinosaurs :P) and ravens which are in decline in some areas, so their deaths from ingesting poisons found in the meat of a fox's carcass will be noticed.

[adam.ni 0]

Yeah same thing in humans its a survival thing we tend to forget the most traumatic things during those periods to protect your mental stability.  Similar with people who see traumatic things in war most people forget unfortunately some dont.

[HotShot 0]

Has anyone actually studied the stress levels on a fox during a hunt or anything like that? I honestly reckon the adrenaline levels in a fox as it's being chased are great enough that it wouldn't get too stressed until it was cornered or after it escaped. I thought part of the fight or flight mechanism in most animals was there so that they didn't get terrified when chased and freeze.

I dont know for sure, but from what i remember, it's the stress that causes 'fight or flight', so i dont think they feel stressed, just scared shitless.

[DarkLight 0]

btw darklight do you hate the jumpping tits homoseipain in you sig?

I'm male...

what more can i say

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Mate, if i had a chance, even a small one of escaping i'd take it. There is no escaping poisoned food.

Well in theory many of the Hitler's sidekicks sitting in the reighstag in '45 during the siege of berlin had also a small theoretical chance of escaping ,most chose the cian poison way though.

There is a nuancation to youre point ,you get a small chance of escaping but a large chance of dying a highly painfull death ,poison is certin death but also certain no pain.

If i got the choice of taking poison or being executed by injection later ,i wouldn't take the poison and try to escape.However if i would have got the chance of poison or being burned alive later ,hmm poison it is.

To the point that the nuisance is due to the fact that human has taken most of the life enviroment of this creature ,well i'm sad about that to and if i could have determined the nature policy's i would rather have given these animals larger nature reserve's.I'm actually quite sad that Belgium for example has extincted all it's wolves that it once had ,although at some point they presented a nuisance to farmers to ,afcourse due to farms being close to their habitat.

People will argue that even if you have a large reserve there will still be such cases at it's fringes ,well actually not if you create a buffer zone of reasonable size and adequate fencing around it around it. (above and below ground)

Don't want it to be a small nature prison though ,let it be a large nature prison ,and let human centralize more into city's instead of flokking into small towns all over the country ,that is better for nature and ecology in the whole.

Hunting is not immoral or unethical from a nature point of view ,but cruelty shouldn't be a feature of a animal that calls itself intelligent and advanced.

Hunting is in our gene's and instincts from nature ,cruelty is a manifestation of human social and political related matters IMO.A cat toying with an injured mouse isn't cruelty ,it's it's instinct making him training his hunting skill's ,most "cruelty" by animals is a manifestation of such instincts.

Afcourse ,i to agree with the point that these matters must be seen within perspective ,such hunting isn't prefferable by far but it's nothing compared by for ex. hunting down thousand's of near extinct animals by pouchers for pure financial matters.

In this sense ,i rather will faster and more pasionatly object to the mass clubbings of baby seals. (oh they are so cute)

And that last carry's a point to ,we easily forget those near extinct animals that are not fluffy cute or wildly cool like baby seals or Siberian tiger's ,or torture imposed on them.

There are few people that will object to people torturing mosquito's or blood suckers ,then again i had some mosquito's in my room they hovvered around me as prey dogs when i tried to sleep and the biggest sucker of them gave me a serious moquito bite on my nose the size of a big pimpel and the colony in my bedroom has paid for that deerly,i got an electrical fly slammer and i electrocuted a lot of mosquito's with it to the point that they began to smoke by the pure volume of voltage.Bees got my symphaty but i won't cry for the wasp colony in my garden that has been gassed to death some years ago by the fire department.

[Shashman 0]

FOR through and through

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Don't want it to be a small nature prison though ,let it be a large nature prison ,and let human centralize more into city's instead of flokking into small towns all over the country ,that is better for nature and ecology in the whole.

Yes, but in the UK, using more large areas of land solely for conservation is not very feasable, for is it required. Mostl of the countryside here is occupied by farmland (as it has done for hundreds of years) which is just about big enough to support the current industry AFAIK, and current farming practices in the UK aren't usually detrimental to wildlife (except ground-nesting birds such as lapwings) as most of them are well adapted to life in farmland, and many of our national parks and reserves are used for farming. It's not like we clear vast areas of natural countryside for the sake of creating farmland, because there is very little of that left now (apart from wetlands but most of these are nature reserves now anyway).

The remaining land in the countryside will probably be required for housing very soon as there is a bit of a housing crisis in the UK right now, there aren't enough cheap ones for sale, and new ones aren't being built quick enough to keep up with demand. The UK is a pretty small island, after all so we have to be careful with our land use nowadays.

Besides, this is about foxes anyway, those are thriving in the modern countryside and don't need protection, which is why we have to cull them to protect other species, wild and livestock.

[Bordoy 0]

FOR through and through

through and through? why?

This aint football where im Forest through and through till i die.

[Bordoy 0]

The UK is a pretty small island, after all so we have to be careful with our land use nowadays.

And immigration which is not