Fox hunting Ban

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Sure if the foxes cause problems then something should be done about it.  However, hunting them down isn't a good way to take care of a population that's too big.

Actually it is ,in many places with overpoppulations of certain animals hunting is used to decrease the population ,and that's perfectly justifiable IMO ,the point is rather how they are killed ,cruely or relativly humanely.And afcourse ,if there is no overpoppulation of the species but rather shortage then hunting them should be banned all toghether.

Quote[/b] ]Those animals are living beings too, sure we the "superior" assholes think their life is worth nothing but that's exactly why we are the assholes...

Well ,actually nature is full of predator's and those are important to control poppulations and fulllfill the need of natural sellections in nature ,afcourse we human's are ussually the top of the foodchain ,but in a pure nature perspective there is nothing unethical athunting ,5000 years ago it was still a requirement for survival of our species.

It's disgusting to hunt something down and let it get ripped to pieces... Only fucked up ppl would do something like that.  If you want to control a population then a professional should take care of it with a gun.  

It's a lot cleaner, the fox dies straightaway (i don't want them do die but if they cause problems to nature then i guess it has to happen) and the professional can decide what fox should get killed and what fox should stay alive.  I don't think the hunters really give a fuck about what fox they kill.../QUOTE]

Now youre talking.   tottaly agree.And in the casses of poppulation control thats how it's usually done.

But there are remarks to be made that as thus won't exclude hunting for sport.

As an example ,what about sport Fisshing? I think most people here went fishing once and awhile ,and almost noone sees anything immoral in that.Sure it's argued that the fish arn't hurt by it ,well it's argued but in many cases that won't be the case ,many fishes swallow hook's deeper into themselfs than just letting it stick in the lips that supossedly have no feeling.(wich in many cases is not true neither in the lips case)

EAven throwing them back doesn't mean they will survive.

But fish are so common and in rivers plentifull, just like rabbits in nature as example. (and here in Belgium we have a certain rabbit species that is the size of a medium sized dog ,Flemmish Giant i once saw a specimen of 26 pounds )

And i'm actually less against sport fishing than actuall fish gathering for commercial uses ,be it at sea where it's done at a way to high scale or in special fisherie's were the fish are stacked at immense numbers in a small dedicated creek making it impossible for them to move and letting diseases spread among them quite easily.

in the end when it comes to sport hunting i got the kinda pragmatic oppinion that it should require some skill ,i hate fishers with hughe nets just sweeping whole schools out of the sea or some dumb sport fisher sleeping behind a lake with his fishing rod put upon such state's that give signals when something is hanging at the line ,same goes with hunter's that use automatic rifles or about a hundred hunting dogs.

If you think about it ,the more primitave a man is forced to hunt the less he'll probably catch thus making extinsion usually not a danger ,the more skill it needs and the more rewarding it feels to actually catch something.

Hunting with a close range bow would IMO be much nicer ,challenging (you got to creek up really close to the pray ,avoid the wind and the scent carrying it and noises that could chase him away) ,if you would have hit him you could finish the job in a minimal amount of time with a hand held knife cutting it's throat ,since you use a short range bow youll be near it anyway ,IMO it's even being more respectfull to nature to doing it that way ,you atleast give it a chance ,and it isn't that more inhumane that killing it with a rifle in a microsecond.

Or catching salmon with a spear would be challenging to.

[kerosene 0]

Hands up who liked seeing those posh dickheads get a smacking form the police.

I think it should be banned, its not like shooting, its a group of guys chasing an animal down, cornering it and watching dogs tear it apart.

The only reason its still legal is because its the sport of the upper class, if they liked cock fighting or badger baiting that'd probably still be legal too.

The reason the country side alliance get so pissed off about it is because most of them think they should be allowed to do what they want, regardless of what the rest of the country thinks about it.

[DarkLight 0]

It's disgusting to hunt something down and let it get ripped to pieces... Only fucked up ppl would do something like that.  If you want to control a population then a professional should take care of it with a gun.  

It's a lot cleaner, the fox dies straightaway (i don't want them do die but if they cause problems to nature then i guess it has to happen) and the professional can decide what fox should get killed and what fox should stay alive.  I don't think the hunters really give a fuck about what fox they kill...

I take it you don't eat fish then? As fishing causes unneccessary pain and suffering on the animal. Should we ban fishing too (the UK's most popular sport)? In fact i bet you have friends or family who go fishing. Are they "fucked up" people too?

Also, what about that steak you ate last week. Can you be absolutely certain that the cow didn't feel any pain as the bolt was fired through its brain?

I suppose it's hard to feel so morally outraged when Big Macs taste soooo good!    

I rarely eat fish... i do eat meat but i'm not one of those meat freaks. Sure i think it tastes pretty good but i don't eat a lot of it.

You can't blame me for eating meat... i'm a human being and human beings eat meat (not all of us of course but you get the point). Human beings however don't go hunt down animals that are scared to death to see them getting killed by dogs after a while... only sadistic ppl do stuff like that.

I don't like the way cows etc get slaughtered either. However, i'm pretty sure that a bolt through the brain hurts less than getting killed by dogs. If i had the choice, i'd know what to pick...

I bet if the fox could decide he'd pick the bolt too...

I'm not saying that i agree with the slaughtering, but those cows get killed for meat. Those foxes get killed for entertainment if you ask me... That's just sick... If they want them for the meat, they should shoot them, there's no reason to act like a sadistic son of a bitch. Cuz that's what those ppl are, sadistic idiots. I'd love to go hunt down those fella's with a nice pack of foxes... I'd love to see their stupid face when they realize that hunting isn't fun when you're on the wrong side... assholes... And i'd love to see them getting ripped to pieces... actually no i wouldn't... but it pisses me off to see that ppl like this still exist. This is the 21st century ffs, the earth isn't flat anymore you know...

[HotShot 0]

How about 'vermin control'?

Vermin or not, no need to rip them apart, it's much more humane to get a professional to shoot them in the head, or get some sort of poison in food which kills them off without agony.

These guys aren't doing it to cut their numbers down anyway, they're just doing it to get their kicks.

[SgtBarnes 0]

Hands up who liked seeing those posh dickheads get a smacking form the police.

The irony is that the "dickheads" getting smashed in the face weren't the aristocracy or 'posh' people. The militant protesters were mostly the working class people employed by the foxhunting industry. I.e. the people with most to lose - their livelyhoods.

Quote[/b] ]I think it should be banned, its not like shooting, its a group of guys chasing an animal down, cornering it and watching dogs tear it apart.

So your objection to it is based on it being cruel to animals? In that case, where is your moral outrage towards Fishing...or animal testing....or factory farming?

Quote[/b] ]The only reason its still legal is because its the sport of the upper class, if they liked cock fighting or badger baiting that'd probably still be legal too.

Ahh, now you agree that this is a class issue, and little to do with animal cruelty? Let's remember, we're talking...what... 50 foxes killed in hunts each year?

Quote[/b] ]The reason the country side alliance get so pissed off about it is because most of them think they should be allowed to do what they want, regardless of what the rest of the country thinks about it.

So fishing is ok, because it's a working class sport accessible to everyone? Is that how we judge the legality of unneccessary, cruel bloodsports - how popular they are?  

[DarkLight 0]

Quote[/b] ]Sure if the foxes cause problems then something should be done about it.  However, hunting them down isn't a good way to take care of a population that's too big.

Actually it is ,in many places with overpoppulations of certain animals hunting is used to decrease the population ,and that's perfectly justifiable IMO ,the point is rather how they are killed ,cruely or relativly humanely.And afcourse ,if there is no overpoppulation of the species but rather shortage then hunting them should be banned all toghether.

As i said, if the foxes cause problems their population should be controlled in a professional way.

I agree with you on that...

We fucked up this world, we better try to keep the whole fucking thing in balance a bit... how cruel it may seem...

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Those animals are living beings too, sure we the "superior" assholes think their life is worth nothing but that's exactly why we are the assholes...

Well ,actually nature is full of predator's and those are important to control poppulations and fulllfill the need of natural sellections in nature ,afcourse we human's are ussually the top of the foodchain ,but in a pure nature perspective there is nothing unethical athunting ,5000 years ago it was still a requirement for survival of our species.

Yes, and a couple hundred years ago we used to burn ppl because they were witches

Welcome to the 21st century... some respect for animals might be welcome now...

Quote[/b] ]

It's disgusting to hunt something down and let it get ripped to pieces... Only fucked up ppl would do something like that. If you want to control a population then a professional should take care of it with a gun.

It's a lot cleaner, the fox dies straightaway (i don't want them do die but if they cause problems to nature then i guess it has to happen) and the professional can decide what fox should get killed and what fox should stay alive. I don't think the hunters really give a fuck about what fox they kill.../QUOTE]

Now youre talking. tottaly agree.And in the casses of poppulation control thats how it's usually done.

But there are remarks to be made that as thus won't exclude hunting for sport.

As an example ,what about sport Fisshing? I think most people here went fishing once and awhile ,and almost noone sees anything immoral in that.Sure it's argued that the fish arn't hurt by it ,well it's argued but in many cases that won't be the case ,many fishes swallow hook's deeper into themselfs than just letting it stick in the lips that supossedly have no feeling.(wich in many cases is not true neither in the lips case)

EAven throwing them back doesn't mean they will survive.

But fish are so common and in rivers plentifull, just like rabbits in nature as example. (and here in Belgium we have a certain rabbit species that is the size of a medium sized dog ,Flemmish Giant i once saw a specimen of 26 pounds )

And i'm actually less against sport fishing than actuall fish gathering for commercial uses ,be it at sea where it's done at a way to high scale or in special fisherie's were the fish are stacked at immense numbers in a small dedicated creek making it impossible for them to move and letting diseases spread among them quite easily.

in the end when it comes to sport hunting i got the kinda pragmatic oppinion that it should require some skill ,i hate fishers with hughe nets just sweeping whole schools out of the sea or some dumb sport fisher sleeping behind a lake with his fishing rod put upon such state's that give signals when something is hanging at the line ,same goes with hunter's that use automatic rifles or about a hundred hunting dogs.

If you think about it ,the more primitave a man is forced to hunt the less he'll probably catch thus making extinsion usually not a danger ,the more skill it needs and the more rewarding it feels to actually catch something.

Hunting with a close range bow would IMO be much nicer ,challenging (you got to creek up really close to the pray ,avoid the wind and the scent carrying it and noises that could chase him away) ,if you would have hit him you could finish the job in a minimal amount of time with a hand held knife cutting it's throat ,since you use a short range bow youll be near it anyway ,IMO it's even being more respectfull to nature to doing it that way ,you atleast give it a chance ,and it isn't that more inhumane that killing it with a rifle in a microsecond.

Or catching salmon with a spear would be challenging to.

I sometimes go fishing with my friends, however i don't really fish, i just sit next to them and drink beer, play cards and smoke weird stuff... I have this girlfriend that likes to "go fishing" too, we just sit next to the others and have fun together.

I don't think it's nice for the fish, but as you said, those fishers that catch 1000 of them a day are a lot worse if you ask me...

And if you ask me all guns should be banned forever

I'd really like to go back to the good ol' bow huntings, or just with a knife. Sure that's cruel too, but as you said at least the animal has a chance too.

And i'd love to see everyone fight with the old weapons again like bows and swords. A lot harder than pushing a button and nuking a convoy while you're sitting nice and safe in your Apache

Oh well... ;)

[Gollum1 0]

Those animals are living beings too, sure we the "superior" assholes think their life is worth nothing but that's exactly why we are the assholes...

So you think animals have respect for life?

[DarkLight 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think it should be banned, its not like shooting, its a group of guys chasing an animal down, cornering it and watching dogs tear it apart.

So your objection to it is based on it being cruel to animals? In that case, where is your moral outrage towards Fishing...or animal testing....or factory farming?

Is it because fishing is legal that foxhunting should be legal too?

I don't like to see a fish getting killed either but no one complains about those fish so my opinion won't make a difference. However now is the time to protect the foxes, it's not because some ppl still like to go fishing that we should allow other ppl to hunt foxes...

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]The only reason its still legal is because its the sport of the upper class, if they liked cock fighting or badger baiting that'd probably still be legal too.

Ahh, now you agree that this is a class issue, and little to do with animal cruelty? Let's remember, we're talking...what... 50 foxes killed in hunts each year?

No... it still is about animal cruelty... he just says that such horrible "sports" ('haha') are only allowed because the upper class likes them... I dunno if this is true or not...

[DarkLight 0]

Those animals are living beings too, sure we the "superior" assholes think their life is worth nothing but that's exactly why we are the assholes...

So you think animals have respect for life?

No because they kill to survive...

Those dicks kill for entertainment...

[SgtBarnes 0]

I sometimes go fishing with my friends, however i don't really fish, i just sit next to them and drink beer, play cards and smoke weird stuff...

So you participated in an unneccessary, cruel bloodsport....but that's ok, as you didn't enjoy it!?  

Please explain how Fishing is legally justifiable, yet Foxhunting isn't?

[Gollum1 0]

Those animals are living beings too, sure we the "superior" assholes think their life is worth nothing but that's exactly why we are the assholes...

So you think animals have respect for life?

No because they kill to survive...

Those dicks kill for entertainment...

Minks kill for entertainment. So you acknowledge that animals have no respect for life, how does that make the human race assholes and no other life forms?

Also, you said 'we', not fox hunters.

[Bordoy 0]

Hands up who liked seeing those posh dickheads get a smacking form the police.

The irony is that the "dickheads" getting smashed in the face weren't the aristocracy or 'posh' people. The militant protesters were mostly the working class people employed by the foxhunting industry. I.e. the people with most to lose - their livelyhoods.

Why can't they do drag hunting instead? then they can keep there jobs.

[kerosene 0]

Well, i saw the news clips, i saw big, drunken public schoolboys in rugby shirts hitting each other and the police, as much as I saw militant members of the working class going at it with the police. I liked the fat, blond woman screaming "its war now, its cilvil war" at a camera, no its not, go home you prick.

MP's are talking about banning demonstartions outside the houses of parliment because of this and the security breach in the commons, it'd be kind of funny of demonstrations outside parliment where banned completley because of the actions of a group who probably wouldnt march for anything else.

I never said it wasnt a class issue either, I would like to see animal testing restricted to very important areas of medicine, I dont like factory farming and I dont like battery eggs anyway, they taste like shit compared to free range. I dont feel to strongly about fishing because fish arent mammals.

What does the number of foxes killed in hunting a year have to do with the level of creulty? If dogfighting was legal and someone told me only 50 dogs killed each other id still want it banned.

Its a class issue because comprable blood "sports" that are not the preserve or former preserve of the wealthy were banned long ago.

"So fishing is ok, because it's a working class sport accessible to everyone? Is that how we judge the legality of unneccessary, cruel bloodsports - how popular they are?"

when they made cock-fighting and dog fighting illegal in britain, people who were into it probably thought that was bullshit, now most people are revolted because social values change. Britain is a society which for the most part regards fox hunting as barbaric, things change why should fox hunting be any different?

Plenty of industries have went down the toilet in britain, and the loss has done a lot more damage to communites than a fox hunting ban would.

[Placebo 28]

As an example ,what about sport Fisshing? I think most people here went fishing once and awhile ,and almost noone sees anything immoral in that.Sure it's argued that the fish arn't hurt by it ,well it's argued but in many cases that won't be the case ,many fishes swallow hook's deeper into themselfs than just letting it stick in the lips that supossedly have no feeling.(wich in many cases is not true neither in the lips case)

EAven throwing them back doesn't mean they will survive.

I've gone fishing for 24 years of my life (from the age of 8) I've caught thousands of fish in that time and maybe 10-20 of those have died, mostly due to my inexperience when younger.

I would never say it's a painless experience for a fish to have a hook through its lip, I'm not a fish so wouldn't know, I do know that when I catch a fish it's back swimming free in the water within 60 seconds or so.

I also know that on the extremely rare occasion that a fish is deeply hooked it's better for the fish to simply cut the line and let it swim off as they can shed the hook themselves in around 6 hours or so.

[MrZig 0]

Quote[/b] ]And if you ask me all guns should be banned forever

I'd really like to go back to the good ol' bow huntings, or just with a knife. Sure that's cruel too, but as you said at least the animal has a chance too.

You sir, are messed in the head.

OK fine, why dont you go and live in the woods for a month and use nothing but a pocket knife, let's see who would win.

Hmm? What's that you say? That's cruel? I guess you'll starve then.

"The animals have no chance"

Um, sure, you keep saying that.

Have you ever gone hunting before with a rifle? If you have, then you would know damned right that "prey" animals have a chance.

"Welcome to the 21st century"? That's the lamest thing I've ever heard.

"Oh, it's the 21st century, hunting is no-longer allowed. We're all supposed to eat carrots and lettuce now."

Though I don't hunt SOLELY for "entertainment", I hunt for the meat AND for the thrill of the hunt.

"No way man, we're in the 21st century, that's cruel."

I can hear it now.

Maybe you should watch "Built for the kill" on national geographic channel? That's how the real world is.

And about bull-fighting, I find that disgusting, but rodeo? You think that's cruel?! You make me wanna puke.

[DarkLight 0]

I sometimes go fishing with my friends, however i don't really fish, i just sit next to them and drink beer, play cards and smoke weird stuff...

So you participated in an unneccessary, cruel bloodsport....but that's ok, as you didn't enjoy it!?  

Please explain how Fishing is legally justifiable, yet Foxhunting isn't?

I don't recall saying that i agree with killing fish...

I respect ALL life, i even hate to kill a mosquito

Sure if some dumb animal attacks me i'll kill the fucker, no problemo! But as long as the animal doesn't attack me i'll respect its life...

I'm not one of those animal lovers, we have a dog at home and i fucking hate the animal you know... It's the biggest bitch out there (yeah she's a bitch )

I just think that every life is valuable, no matter if you're a fox or a human being. You live only once, after that it's all over. Every living thing has to right to live a nice and long life if you ask me. Death should only come when it has to come, not when some moron feels like ripping apart a fox...

Fishing:

I didn't participate i already explained how i "fish"

I'm not saying that fishing is justifiable... Let's just look at this ban as a good way to start having some respect for our lovely friends...

And to be honest with you, i doubt the fish suffers as much as the fox... but that doesn't matter... in the end both are dead...

[Bordoy 0]

Quote[/b] ]I liked the fat, blond woman screaming "its war now, its cilvil war" at a camera, no its not, go home you prick.

Fully agree with you there. Lets hunt the toffs down like the foxes, i mean dogs, they are.

[DarkLight 0]

Those animals are living beings too, sure we the "superior" assholes think their life is worth nothing but that's exactly why we are the assholes...

So you think animals have respect for life?

No because they kill to survive...

Those dicks kill for entertainment...

Minks kill for entertainment. So you acknowledge that animals have no respect for life, how does that make the human race assholes and no other life forms?

Also, you said 'we', not fox hunters.

Oh we are assholes...

Modern human beings disrespect pretty much everything that nature gave us...

And minks are just fucked up animals

[Gollum1 0]

Those animals are living beings too, sure we the "superior" assholes think their life is worth nothing but that's exactly why we are the assholes...

So you think animals have respect for life?

No because they kill to survive...

Those dicks kill for entertainment...

Minks kill for entertainment. So you acknowledge that animals have no respect for life, how does that make the human race assholes and no other life forms?

Also, you said 'we', not fox hunters.

Oh we are assholes...

Modern human beings disrespect pretty much everything that nature gave us...

Nature is a conscious entity that can give you something now?

Quote[/b] ]And minks are just fucked up animals

So why can't we be defined as "fucked up animals" and just leave it at that, it's OK then?

[DarkLight 0]

Quote[/b] ]And if you ask me all guns should be banned forever

I'd really like to go back to the good ol' bow huntings, or just with a knife.  Sure that's cruel too, but as you said at least the animal has a chance too.

You sir, are messed in the head.

OK fine, why dont you go and live in the woods for a month and use nothing but a pocket knife, let's see who would win.

Hmm? What's that you say? That's cruel? I guess you'll starve then.

Calm down calm down... we are just having a discussion you know...

No need to freak out... i'm just a stupid kid you know...

I never said that i'd want to go and live in the woods... where the fuck did you get that from? Do you know hunters that live in teh woods for a month and try to survive like that? Why the hell do you start talking about some robinson crusoe kinda stuff?

I was talking about hunting in general, it would be a lot more challenging with bows and crap like that.

SORRYYYYYYYY for my opinion!

Quote[/b] ]"Welcome to the 21st century"? That's the lamest thing I've ever heard.

"Oh, it's the 21st century, hunting is no-longer allowed. We're all supposed to eat carrots and lettuce now."

Hunting IS allowed einstein

I was just hoping that mankind would've developed enough intelligence to respect other forms of life by now

Maybe i was wrong

EXCUSE ME

sheeeesh

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you should watch "Built for the kill" on national geographic channel? That's how the real world is.

Right, because a crocodile HAS to use his teeth to kill (they can't handle guns you know) we have to use dogs to rip foxes apart.

Riiiiiight

Maybe you should think before starting to freak out and scream that i'm a moron...

sheeeeeeeeeeeeesh

[kerosene 0]

They wouldnt do drag hunting cause they dont get to kill anything, that being the main thing they enjoy.

10% of foxes are killed in hunts, the population control argument is a joke.

Hunt trespass is still to common, and compensation is not always given for property damage, killed pets, livestock, etc

and compensation is not always paid.

"The unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable."

Oscar Wilde, 1890

[DarkLight 0]

Nature is a conscious entity that can give you something now?

Holy shit!  2 hard words in one sentence!

I'll pass this one    

No seriously i don't understand what you're saying

Quote[/b] ]So why can't we be defined as "fucked up animals" and just leave it at that, it's OK then?

Because we should be intelligent enough to realize that killing for entertainment only isn't very nice...

[MrZig 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you should think before starting to freak out and scream that i'm a moron...

sheeeeeeeeeeeeesh

Quote[/b] ]Right, because a crocodile HAS to use his teeth to kill (they can't handle guns you know) we have to use dogs to rip foxes apart.

Riiiiiight

Did I mention a fox once in my post?

No. Did I scream at all? No. Do you like making stuff up to justify your reasons? Yes.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I'm not in favour of banning it because it doesn't offend me to see a fox ran into exhaustion and subsequently torn apart by dogs (seems to me that people who want it banned are only offended by the thought of that) but I don't see how a so-called sport is so important to country life in the UK that people think that it will ruin their way of life to get rid of it so a ban doesn't bother me in the slightest either. The whole argument seems trivial to me.

As far as I'm conscerned they may as well keep things as they are, the current system works fine for controlling foxes and it saves the police and the government a lot of hassel enforcing such a ban, and even though fox-hunting and hare-coursing (which is also being banned) are cruel, I don't think they're any more cruel than shooting the animal. Foxes have to be controlled and shooting them is inefficient and is no less painless or instant a death when the time comes for them to be ripped apart by the pack of dogs. The kill rate for hunts with dogs are much higher than those with a rifle anyway so a ban would probably prove expensive to the country.

[DarkLight 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you should think before starting to freak out and scream that i'm a moron...

sheeeeeeeeeeeeesh

Quote[/b] ]Right, because a crocodile HAS to use his teeth to kill (they can't handle guns you know) we have to use dogs to rip foxes apart.

Riiiiiight

Did I mention a fox once in my post?

No. Did I scream at all? No. Do you like making stuff up to justify your reasons? Yes.

Well sorry

I was talking about foxes

You replied

so i thought you were talking about foxes too

And no you didn't scream, i was just kinda offended by your reaction. Nothing to worry about... i'm weird...

What am i making up?