Vdv pack v2.0 by orcs

[void_false 1]

I'm afraid that our foreign friend are fimilar only with vodka...

[miles teg 1]

Why is everyone getting so upset about higher accuracy values?

BAS did the same, and it didn't cause such a ruckus as this.

Double standards anyone?  

Hello, but BAS didn't make super AT-4 rockets that killed everything with one hit.  

The only different "standard" BAS did was add HD ammunition to their JAM pack but they also gave people a choice of using ammo with BIS standards of accuracy or the HD ammo which has more realistic dispersion (but still deadly).  

Their RPG-7's also were not "Super Weapons" and I think are well balanced with other addons in OFP.

As for engagement distances, I don't think that is a problem with the JAM weapons.

So no I don't think there is a double standard.  My main complaint is simply that the RPG-16 is a bit overpowered.  

Realism should be balanced with the fact that the OFP dammage system is NOT REALISTIC so it is impossible to make perfectly realistic AT warheads.  

For example, an RPG-16 with ANY warhead would never penetrate the frontal armor of an M1A2.  That is why I think it's best to balance it in the game by making it have similar dammage levels as say, for example, the BIS Carl Gustav AT rocket in OFP.

As for engagement distances... I haven't tested them out yet, but from research I've done on the AK-74, it seems that while it is a bit more accurate then the Ak-47, it still does not have the accuracy at long range as the M16 or M4 rifles and generally is not used for long range engagements.  

I've only fired the AK-47 which I think sucks for shooting anything past 200 meters compared to the M16A2 rifles I've fired.  However it was a Chinese knockoff and not as good as the Russian AK-47's (I've only held a captured Russian Ak-47 from El Salvador and the workmanship and balance of the weapon was very good actually). I've also not fired the AK-74 and I'm sure that ORC has some Russian military people on their team who have fired it.  I just hope that they don't make their decisions on its accuracy and range based on purely nationalistic goals rather then the performance of the actual weapons. Engaging targets at 1000m is DEFINITELY a big problem.

With the PKM, I have no problem with a long engagement range (out to 800meters) because I know that in real life it's a good machine gun for long range suppressive fire.  However I think that they could add a little bit more dispersion on it.

 

But its up to ORC to do that.  If they choose to keep the values the same, then I guess I'll have to live with that because otherwise the units look fantastic and I am enjoying the hard work of ORC very much and I appreciate their efforts to make these great looking units.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[andy_aws 0]

As per info I've been gathering on various weapons, Max Effective Range: AK-47 400M, AK-74 500M.

AK-74:

Sighting Range - 1000M

max Flight - 3150M

max Killing Range - 1350M

So at 1000M you could aim, shoot and kill, but you would be unlikely to hit.

That info came from a Russian site, kalashnikov.guns.ru, so it should be unbiased.

[nyles 11]

I'm with Miles Teg on this one: Balance should be the overall goal. Engagement ranges are part of that just like damage/penetration values.

Those VDV troops are one amazing piece of work, but to really bring them in line with 90% of the other OFP addons, they need to be toned down (a bit) on said areas.

If not, they are only attractive for mission makers which use other addons with similar statistics. If you really think that your values are so much better, you should bother to release a number of opposing forces so that the overall balance is not biased towards the VDV. They might be elite, but they still need to follow certain guidelines that most other addons are following.

[miles teg 1]

Quote[/b] ]As per info I've been gathering on various weapons, Max Effective Range: AK-47 400M, AK-74 500M.

AK-74:

Sighting Range - 1000M

max Flight - 3150M

max Killing Range - 1350M

So at 1000M you could aim, shoot and kill, but you would be unlikely to hit.

That info came from a Russian site, kalashnikov.guns.ru, so it should be unbiased.

Doesn't really say much though.  The measurement you'd want to look for is what the average MOA (Minute of Angle) at 100 yards that the AK-74 can achieve.  That data is difficult to find.

If you find it, please post it.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Major Fubar 0]

How does the RPG-16 in this pack compare to the RPG-16 in Earl & Suchey's pack?

[Swan-ORCS- 0]

 I've also not fired the AK-74 and I'm sure that ORC has some Russian military people on their team who have fired it.  I just hope that they don't make their decisions on its accuracy and range based on purely nationalistic goals rather then the performance of the actual weapons. Engaging targets at 1000m is DEFINITELY a big problem.

You are right. The team has experts. There are people with fighting experience. No nationalist interests are present. There is a big aspiration to reflect a realistic picture of fight.

Yet do not discuss the characteristic of separate samples of the weapon. They will be gradually balanced. Let's discuss it later. When weaponpack (with reference to a squad/platoon) it will be completely made, then let's discuss balance.

Do not forget that we let out balancing pack for West too.  

Still there are aspects coordinated with complex application of the weapon. If to consider characteristics from this point of view is all correct.

[Denorc-ORCS- 0]

So that's right. btw, place 12 VDV soldiers on desert island, and set waypoint to a group of BAS rangers. So they also engage on 600-700 meters on highest skill. On lower skill it is all normal. About recoils: our recoil stats are close to the BIS ones...

[void_false 1]

At least we can make normal specops missions using VDV troops. They will be much toughter than their opponents

[aj_addons 0]

Quote[/b] ]How does the RPG-16 in this pack compare to the RPG-16 in Earl & Suchey's pack?

imagine Earl & Suchey's one after its been force fed stroids for along time bit on the powerful side

[sputnik monroe 102]

Well it is way over powered, but at least the AI can hit tanks with it.

I love Suchey and earls weapons, but their rocket lauchers can't be used by the AI. They always shoot over their targets.

[Denorc-ORCS- 0]

And ours always shoot under tanks)))))))))

'cause normal aiming by optics needs more "ballistic" traectory. Bots can hit armor only from 100-150 meters. And from RPG7 without optics - much larger, 'cause there initspeed parameters are higher.

[da_ofp_man 0]

Hey guys ther is a littel update of vdv 2.0 ther are new:

-animations

-scripts

and a demo mission

you can download from flashpoint.ru

[fallchild 0]

You can get the pack here (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/orcs/Aniefv1.rar) also.

[MSpencer 0]

Are the balance issues addressed or are these still "super-troops" that never miss, get headshots with SVDs from 9000m, and don't die?

[theavonlady 2]

Are the balance issues addressed or are these still "super-troops" that never miss, get headshots with SVDs from 9000m, and don't die?

From the description of this update, it contains only animations, effects and a demo mission.

So don't count on any essential characteristic changes to the units.

[Sgt. Stryker 0]

hell just put them against some of lasers deltas and you got urself a damn good nission/ balance going on there. Good work guys I love it!!!!!!!

[MSpencer 0]

You have to set their skill levels to 0% for them to act like a BAS Delta with its skill level on 100%.

[theavonlady 2]

You have to set their skill levels to 0% for them to act like a BAS Delta with its skill level on 100%.

Just play on the Russian side and you'll be fine.

[Sgt. Stryker 0]

man some ppl are sooooo ungrateful. Perosnally i like them the way they are, it makes them seem like an actual trained and effin good unit instead of just a fancy looking US soldier with good aiming. Keep up the good work ORCS.

[CanadianTerror 0]

Maybe people should just learn how to shoot back better instead of whining and moaning about the balance.

[miles teg 1]

Well I apologize if it bothers some people that some of us would like to see at least a little bit more realism.

Is it too much to ask that RPG-16's don't blow up Abrams with a single shot or that units with assault rifles don't engage an enemy waaay outside their effective range?  

I'm sure the AK74 is a great rifle but from what I've gathered from various sources it is not quite as accurate as an M16A2...and the M16A2 is rarely used to engage targets past 300 meters.  Most U.S. Army soldiers can't even consistently hit the 300 meter targets without optical sights.  

Also while I do appreciate that they released some US units to add balance (and yes their US units are good), some of us might like to use these Russian units with infantry addons by other mod teams as well.

For example I might want to use them in my Japanese Self-Defense Force mod folder as opponents for the Japanese soldiers.  

Or I may for example want to pit them against the BIS Resistance forces with me playing the part of a Russian paratrooper.  It would be a bit boring if they decimate the Resistance forces at extremely long ranges and blow up all their armor easily with one shot from their RPGs.  

But again I'm sorry if this appears as whining.  If they decide not to change anything about the weapons, then that is their right to do so.  There are other Russian addons that are fairly decent (like the ones in Vit's APC pack) that I can always use.  But these VDV troops are probably the best looking and it would be a shame if I couldn't use them because of balance issues because I really wanted to use them in an update of my old Operation Condor mission along with a new Airborne Assault mission that's just about done.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[sputnik monroe 102]

Miles Teg you make a civil and mature argument. ORCS have stated many times though that they will not balance these troops. Sorry.

The argument made is usually, "if you don't like it don't use em", sadly that's the choice I've had to make. It's really too bad for they are exellent looking.

[Swan-ORCS- 0]

O no... I say again. I again repeat.

Yet do not discuss the characteristic of separate samples of the weapon now. They will be gradually balanced. Let's discuss it later.

We experiment now. On it time is necessary.

If you use elite fighters in the missions, reflect as far as are frequently used in in a real life.

If who has decided to replace regular/usual soldiers with paratroopers it acts absolutely incorrectly. That you would tell if we have replaced (in the company) of all usual americans soldiers with "Delta" or "Green Berets"?

We plan them (VDV) to use not so frequently.

There is a work above motorized infantry. The infantry will be used very much frequently.

Most U.S. Army soldiers can't even consistently hit the 300 meter targets without optical sights.

Chris, m.b. you are not absolutely right? Modern fight (with application of the automatic weapon) occurs on distances about 1000m (on depth of a battlefield). Therefore the soldier is simply obliged to be able to kill the enemy on such distances the regular weapon. Anyway so is in our army (RF Army). Otherwise it not the professional (IMO). 300m with an optical sight - children's pranks. I do not believe, that the american professional soldiers cannot kill on a distance 300m from a usual rifle. M.b. it is necessary to arm them AK?

[GoOB 0]

I sincerely doubt that..... The longest sniper kill was what, 2000 metres? And that was with a Barrett, a high powered anti-material rifle.

I don't doubt the AK74 or it's variants in any way, but surely 300-400 metres does sound a bit too far away to have any effect. I don't think you could hit with any major accuracy, but perhaps if you have alot of bullets

And I do think that Miles has been in the US Army, so he would probably be a good judge.

But for me it's not a matter of realism, it's a matter of playability, I really do love your pack and it's a great one. But at the moment I can only use it against your Deltas and your Rangers, which I am pleased with aswell but I want to shoot FIA rebels with your VDV troops too, without my AI squadmates killing the enemy before I can see them.

Sorry if this is in any way wining, I just need to express my opinion