Return of the king

[Dauragon 0]

I swear at the end of the movie of ROTK i saw the Elf that died in the Two Towers,

the one that comes with all his elf troops and Legolas goes to greet him

[WhoCares 0]

That would have been Haldir. I'll check that on Sunday

I doubt, that it is possible to make a movie based on the Silmarillion. A too long timeframe covered, basically three ages, too many stories told with few to no characters lasting over several of those stories. Maybe a TV series, but hardly a cinema production.

[freddern 0]

I doubt, that it is possible to make a movie based on the Silmarillion. A too long timeframe covered, basically three ages, too many stories told with few to no characters lasting over several of those stories. Maybe a TV series, but hardly a cinema production.

Well... He could take one of the many great stories i Sillmarillion and make a movie out of that. That would be incredible... and after you have seen ROTK you won't think that that's impossible..... Silmarillion in a movie is my dream..., but it would have to be great.

[Gollum1 0]

I swear at the end of the movie of ROTK i saw the Elf that died in the Two Towers,

the one that comes with all his elf troops and Legolas goes to greet him

I know what you mean, they look alike but it's not the same guy, obviously. He's the King of Elves, Glorfindel, IIRC, while Haldir was slain at Helm's Deep.

EDIT: Silly me, his name is Celeborn not Glorfindel!

[Dauragon 0]

I swear at the end of the movie of ROTK i saw the Elf that died in the Two Towers,

the one that comes with all his elf troops and Legolas goes to greet him

I know what you mean, they look alike but it's not the same guy, obviously. He's the King of Elves, Glorfindel, IIRC, while Haldir was slain at Helm's Deep.

EDIT: Silly me, his name is Celeborn not Glorfindel!

i thaught Agent Smith was the king of elves

but the guy that looks like Haldir is in the back, the camera is not focused on him, you have to look good

[Pick Axe 0]

The simlmarillion would be far too hard to make into a movie. It spans what, 10,000 years? It was a great story, but too complex for the movies. The hobbit, on the other hand, would be really cool and a lot easier to make.

[sanctuary 19]

Of course, it will not be possible to make the Silmarillion in one movie .

But i can imagine the adaptation in several movies (another trilogy a la star wars ;) ) , this way the complexity of the book that related events during thousands years in Middle Earth should not not a problem.

Mr Jackson , please

[Gollum1 0]

Silmarillion would be an overdose of Middle Earth stuff, and not many people have read it compared to LOTR. It would be mooore of the same, really, and not even with ONE plot like in LOTR. Sorry, commercial suicide, IMO.

And would Peter Jackson want to be know as the "tolkien guy" for the rest of his life, not to mention be straight out FED UP with Middle Earth after being a workaholic because of it for 6 years?

But the Hobbit would be a very cool children's movie!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

The Silmarillion is Middle Earth's Bible, and it reads like it. Only those who have an interest in the Lord of the Rings above and beyond its value as a story need apply. I've read the damn thing cover to cover twice, plus the Akallabeth a few extra times. There are some great stories within, but it would take true talent and dedication to flesh them out in a way that stayed true to the source material.

In other news, I'm going see it in two hours  

[Blake 0]

First I must state that I'm a lowlife worm not having read to books, but I've seen both LOTR and TT extended edition versions.

Just saw it. Well, it was certainly worthy ending to the spectacular trilogy. The beginning was a suprise and nicely linked the story with the start of the FOTR. Overall outstanding job and very emotionally captivating, as well as actionwise.

BUT...

The ending...

***COLLATERAL SPOILERS AHEAD***

***YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!***

Mr.Jackson left possibly the juiciest ending out of the movie, which in my view constitutes a federal offence since there WILL NOT BE the ending Tolkien meant even in the extended edition since it was never filmed...I'm talking about this: (quote from IMDB.com official review)

Quote[/b] ]

Jackson makes a momentous decision in excising "The Scouring of the Shire," Tolkien's second to the last chapter of "Return" from the adaptation. In the book, after the ring is destroyed and Aragorn is crowned king, Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin return to the Shire to find it ravaged. A "boss" named Sharkey has moved in and the hobbits that remained behind, passive as they are, have given in to his rule. Only when the returning hobbits confront him and his gang does it turn out that Sharkey is Sauruman and his sidekick is Grima Wormtongue. Grima stabs Sauruman and the wizard is last seen as a whisp of smoke. There is work to be done in the Shire, it has to be rebuilt. Frodo can fight for his world, as a warrior and survivor can, but he has been too depleted by the One Ring to help build it. He must leave. According to Jackson's post on Ain't It Cool, the scenes with Christopher Lee and Brad Dourif (as Sauruman and Grima) were wrap-ups to the siege at Isengard and that "we don't have the Scouring later, as the book does." They never filmed it. It's the one decision Jackson has made that violates, in some primal sense, Tolkien's text.

When I left the movie I felt bit puzzled about the cheesy kind of ending when hobbits return to the Shire. I really wanted to find out did Tolkien really write it that way...the stunning answer I found is above. I think it's a freaking outrage. Such an ending would have been SPECTACULAR and unforgettable ending at least to me, the lowlife who has not read the books but is a fierce fan of the movies. This is the single biggest mistake Jackson has made in the trilogy so far, at least in my opinion and will stay that way untill I've read the book and possibly find some unmissable moments which could have been included. Mr. Jackson, you owe it to the world to SOMEHOW make the correct ending at least when Extended Edition comes out on DVD! Spend 100 million dollars and unleash all your precious CGI computers whatever but PLEASE make it happen!!!

*** SPOILERS ABOVE COVER YOUR EYES ****

[hellfish6 7]

I swear at the end of the movie of ROTK i saw the Elf that died in the Two Towers,

the one that comes with all his elf troops and Legolas goes to greet him

No, the elf at the end of ROTK was Galadriel's husband, who is only briefly in the Fellowship. The guy you are thinking of who died in the Two Towers was the guy that caught the Fellowship in the woods outside of Galadriel's Treehouse. He said something like "I can smell the dwarf from a league away".

Just saw ROTK. I was honestly a bit dissappointed. It was a lot more "Hollywood" than the previous two. And one thing which really bugged me is the use of stock sounds. There's a scream that anonymous characters make when they fall that seems to be in every movie that ever has anonymous characters falling. If you watch Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (the part where Indy is on the rope bridge and one of the bad guys falls into the crocodile-infested water blow) and then watch somebody falling off an Oliphant in ROTK and you'll know what I'm talking about. It's the same scream.

Yeah, I'm probably nitpicking, but this is one example of the dissappointment I felt. I just wasn't absorbed into this movie like I was the last two.

[Blake 0]

Still, despite the flawed and outrageous ending I felt better than I felt walking out after Two Towers. But I still have to say the FOTR holds the no.1 place firmly and the reasons at least for me is obvious:

1) First installment advantage - everything seems fresh and novel as you are sucked into the story

2) It had the Fellowship unbroken for most of the time. The mines of Moria part is best in the entire trilogy in my opinion.

Big battles didn't match the excitement of party-based character developement and sense of adventuring. You really felt for the characters as the expolre the mighty mines of Moria and one can only admire the greatness of CGI-created dwarf halls, Khazan dum bridge along with the seemingly invulnerable villain Balrog.

*minor spoiler*

But ROTK had some strong moments like the beginning which explains a lot how the ring was found etc. Climax is exciting as well as the battles are great.

[hellfish6 7]

I agree with you Blake, the Moria part was one of the best ever in a movie. It was the first scene that really convinced you that this was no ordinary movie... that this was something special.

And yes, ROTK's battlescenes were quite good. Almost exactly as I pictured them in my mind when I read the books.

[sanctuary 19]

Big spoilers about the ending in the book

Just too add the anecdote

Tolkien wrote later a chapter (an epilogue) unpublished in the Return of the King book .

There are several versions of it.

I first read it in an old Dragon magazine (a rpg dedicaced magazine, in its french translation) , it is very interesting to complete the story once you know it.

2 versions can be found here spoiler of course.

http://www.memoirsoftheshire.com/epilogue.htm

This , and the fact it is a must read for the die hard Tolkien fans that have a natural big beard and carry a big axe pretending to be a dwarf that used to live in the Moria before..

..like i do every day at work .

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Diagnosis: Really really really really really great, even without the Scouring of the Shire. I know that it's a long film though, and sacrifices had to be made. My eyes got all watery when Theoden died- he was always one of my favorites. About the endings... many people are complaining that the film has too many endings; personally, I could've done with about two or three more. Merry and Pippin becoming responsible, important hobbits, Gimli and Legolas wandering Middle Earth and then setting sail for the West together, and of course the major tear-jerker (which isn't actually in the book, but the Appendices) is Aragorn dying, and Arwen passing away in what is left of Lothlorien... I know it's difficult to end on a downer, but it would have been magic, man, MAGIC. Plus it would have been a nice complement to Elrond's monologue in The Two Towers (movie version), which is imo the best part of that film. Overall though, really, marvelously good- I really was worried about how they were going to pull it off, but they did a fantastic job. The only flaw, from a filmmaking standpoint, was that the theater cuts of The Fellowship and Two Towers glossed over the eagles' involvement in Middle Earth, so even though their arrival at the last battle makes perfect sense to anyone who has read the Hobbit or the Trilogy, a standard moviegoer is going to feel a little put-out. Had I had it my way, I would have changed many things back to their literary state and added (a massive amount of) stuff, but my cut would break 6 hours running time, and cater to way too many of Tolkien's idiosyncratic plot diversions.

It is my favorite film of the three (The Fellowship is a very close second), and unquestionably the best movie I've seen in several years. The Two Towers remains my favorite book, though.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I had one other problem: Gandalf spends entirely too much time (read: any at all) smacking Denethor around with his staff. Yes, he deserves it, but he's the Steward, for chrissakes. And the one cut I missed more than the Scouring was The Houses of Healing, Faramir and Eowyn's story as well as Aragorn's gift of healing. His ability to heal the wounds caused by the Enemy's evil is, in the book, exponentially more important to the Gondorians than his skill as a warrior, and the movie really should have reflected that.

Really, I could type for hours about this, and nitpick the beejesus out of the movie, but that would undercut the fact that I really did love it, and I'm sure (since I'm no filmmaker or anything) that the version we're seeing- as well as the DVD cut next year- are really about as good as they could have possibly made it, without the master copy transcending into a higher dimension, forever lost to humanity. And I appreciate that.

-Signed,

a fan

[John C Flett 0]

Reading through this I get the impression that most people ( including me ) enjoyed the film but feel of the three it is the most flawed.

Be interesting to see how thats reflected at the box office but I do feel that many of the faults ( if not 'the scouring' ) can be corrected in the DVD SE.

For myself having had a few day to think I keep thinking of little bit that stick in my mind. The look in Eowyn's eyes when she sees the enemy and realises what shes got herself in for, or the witch kings morning star. That thing was scary.

But I think Jackson has done about as good a job as anybody could and the filming of the trilogy in one go by one director shows in some wonderful echos of the first film. Little moments like the moth appearing to Gandalf and the same musical motif from his time on Isengard to signal the eagles. Or Sam's hand reaching down to Frodo just as Frodo reached down to him at the end of Fellowship. The gamble to invest so much time and money in one place, under one person has truly payed off.

These films are far from perfect adaptions but they are still as close as we could reasonably have hoped for ( honestly, think of any other hollywood version ) and still amazingly good films. A fantastic journey over three years.

The two other things to hope for is the suggestion that Jackson will do 'The Hobbit' and has expressed an interest though there are problems with the rights. And on a different course the rumour that New Line have secured the rights to work on the Phillip Pullman 'Dark materials' trilogy.

[whisperFFW06 0]

About making a movie out of the Silmarrilion, one thing I would love to see is Turin story, the best Tolkien's story imho. This and narration of how Gondolin was built, lived and fought, and finally collapsed (which is kind of connected to Turin's story).

Moria the best part of the movie? Sure, because it's the best part of the books! It's the only time I was scared (it was midnight, I was alone in the dark when I first read the "drums in the deep ... dum dum dum dum" thing ) while reading a book.

Anyway, because of the "it's new" aspect, FOTR is for me the best of the 3 (but not yet seen extended version of ROTK and extended are always wayyyy better than originals). Blake, you are right on spot, the party-based adventure makes you more involved. I first saw it with friends I was regularly playing RPG. The first reaction we had just coming out of the cinema was "Wow! Now I KNOW why trolls are tough to defeat!" .

I can't wait for the ROTK extended version!

[Kuja- 0]

I have sections of the first two and liked neither. I think, with the exception of Gandalf, that the casting and acting was extremely poor and that alone spoiled them. I can't believe Jackson made so many of the main characters ... total pussies.

I have refused to jump on the "I can't do something as simple as read a fucking book" bandwagon so I can't really comment authoritatively...but the above + what I consider a poor interpretation + the FUBAR ending ... no good.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Reading through this I get the impression that most people ( including me ) enjoyed the film but feel of the three it is the most flawed.

<snip>

I wouldn't say that- The Two Towers is the most flawed in my opinion (but greatly improved in the extended edition).

But everything after that, I pretty much completely agree with, John.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I have sections of the first two and liked neither.  I think, with the exception of Gandalf, that the casting and acting was extremely poor and that alone spoiled them.  I can't believe Jackson made so many of the main characters ... total pussies.

I have refused to jump on the "I can't do something as simple as read a fucking book" bandwagon so I can't really comment authoritatively...but the above + what I consider a poor interpretation + the FUBAR ending ... no good.

You... haven't seen either of the first two... and you're making judgements based on that?

[redliner47 0]

I never really like the scouring of the shire part in the trilogy, although it would have been nice to see jackson's interpretation of it. The movie played out exactly like i thought it would. The one thing i would have liked to see more of is the cursed army.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Call it return of the cash.

"The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" took in $34.1 million domestically on opening day, easily beating the debuts of the fantasy epic's first two installments, distributor New Line Cinema said Thursday.

It was a record debut for a movie opening on Wednesday, surpassing the $28.5 million take for "Star Wars: Episode I -- The Phantom Menace" in 1999.

The film also had the sixth-best single-day gross ever, behind "Spider-Man" with $43.6 million and $39.4 million on two different days, "The Matrix Reloaded" with $37.5 million and $34.4 million on two different days, and "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" with $34.2 million.

Those films ran far shorter than "Return of the King," whose three-hour, 20-minute running time limits the number of screenings theaters can squeeze in each day.

By Sunday, "Return of the King" should have handily passed the $102 million that "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" grossed domestically in its first five days last year.

The film also took in $23.5 million in 19 other countries where it debuted Wednesday, including Great Britain, Germany and France. The movie was opening in about 10 more countries Thursday and Friday and gradually expands to other territories over the next couple of months.

New Line executives hope the final chapter of the saga will ultimately top $1 billion worldwide, becoming the second movie to cross that mark, after "Titanic" with $1.8 billion.

[John C Flett 0]

Quote[/b] ]You... haven't seen either of the first two... and you're making judgements based on that?

But uninformed opinions are what makes the internet so great!

Quote[/b] ]I have refused to jump on the "I can't do something as simple as read a fucking book" bandwagon so I can't really comment authoritatively

Hes refused to not be able to read the book so can't comment on it. I suspect something has been lost in translation but to be fair Kuja isn't the only person to have commented unfavourably on the acting but I think thats simply a reflection of Tolkien's writing. This was never meant to be kitchen sink or METHOD drama. It has to have a slightly artificial feel. Personally I thought the cast did a superb job. In particular Viggo who has done a tremendous job given he was an eleventh hour change of heart.

Quote[/b] ]I wouldn't say that- The Two Towers is the most flawed in my opinion (but greatly improved in the extended edition).

My extended edition is waiting for me in Edinburgh but I won't get to see it till February. Sob!

And on an unrelated note, notice once again the trailer has bits not in the film, in particular that shot of Gandalf on Shadowfax with the witch king landing infront of him. Guess thats for the extended cut also.

[GoOB 0]

Poor casting? I think most of the actors fit their roles perfectly. Especially Viggo Mortenson (sp?)