Interface discussion

[ofpchaos 0]

Some more suggestions:

- multiple intros ( random intros maybe fitted to the outcome of the mission before )

- multiple outros for loosed missions

- multiple outros for sucessfull completed missions

- exchange of variables between intros, outros and missions

- editor should offer the option for a 3D view

- game and editor should offer the option to work in single windows so you dont have to go right into the mission while editing or be able to test missions on desktop

- description.ext should show the results right after editing it so you dont have to restart ofp to see your changes

- a tool to that allows to view different units in multiple window would be very nice so you get a total overwiev over your mission

- integration of editors like DropTool, Scripting editor, briefing editor and overwiev editor

- simpler editing of cutscene creation and other ingame movies

- integrated screenshot taker

- option to save ingame movies to DivX format would be nice

- editor should eb modular so you can upgrade it

- release of the SDK before release of the game itself

More suggestiosn will follow.

I hope you will bring us abother great and amazing and most important evolved game :-)

Greetings tot he BIS team

Chaos

[ebns72 0]

I played the brothers in arms demo, and I think a squad system like this definately needs to be in ofp. It is simple (only consists of 4 commands I think, and only 1 button on the keyboard is used.) It is quick, simple, and fairly flexible. There is no doubt squad command needs and overhall in ofp2, both AI wise and interface wise. Currently, scrambling through numbers with a bunch of commands is too complex, especially in the heat of combat and where commands need to be quick. Some commands could get automated or simplified, for example if the AI is idle I would expect them to automatically "scan horizon" while they are waiting.

[Scrub 0]

I believe this was mentioned earlier, but wanted to elaborate on it a bit..  I believe interaction with the outside world (the action menu) needs some spiffying up.  Something that could be added to cut down on all the menu changes during a mission (when you get next to something you can interact with and the options are added/taken away from the list) is simply an 'action' button. This will be great with the new physics and collision detection systems.

Example:

You want to get in as a tank commander, the action hotspot is located at the commanders hatch, you have to climb up and get close to the hatch to get the option.  No more running alongside the moving tank, and hoping to click on the right menu item as they flipflop around..  

This can enable you to enter/leave any position, talk to ppl, pick up or use something, you get the idea, it's been done before for good reasons.

The second idea about the action menu is..  If most common items can't have a key assigned to them, then how about segregating into several shorter lists, and operating much like HL2's weapon selection, or just bringing up the typical looking menu with the particular content in it, say, one for personel stuff (first aid, equipment, goggles, etc.), one for vehicles (though most things could be done with a single action button).. maybe have the different lists be user definable? allowing more to be added like folders in a directory.  That way, when you get into a vehicle, you can select that menu (or maybe it's context sensitive and comes up on it's own.), you get into combat, so you pick that one.  However, on saying that, weapons selection/reloading should not be in the action menu, WAY too cumbersome in a firefight.

BTW, can I pre-order these games now? Or do I actually have to wait for some code to be finalized before you can take my money?

*falls asleep till 2006*

[Dallas 9]

My ideas regarding Command interface on infantery level:

I have a minimum of experience with different infantery formations or patrole patterns, but I'll try to simplify these a whole lot. Because I really don't feel you need too many different formations.

Basicly I'll steal the entry modes from Swat3, where you have 'Stealth' and 'Aggressive' and then add a third 'At ease'.

'Stealth':

In stealth you're team will move in a single column, commands will be given in a low voice and hand signals. If the leader issues a command (hand signal) all teammembers will respond by repeating the signal.

The column: Soldier on point, soldier/law second, teamleader third followed by: Radioman, MG, medic/engineer/sniper and with a soldier last. Pointman primarily covers 12 o'clock and last man 6 o'clock. All AI soldiers, even point and rear, should scan the horizon with random headturns, not the old OFP way, when AI turn like a clock when you asked them to scan horizon.

Hand signals:

1: Advance

2: Hold

3: Go prone

4: Engage

5: Cover this direction

6: Cover 360

7: Switch to Aggressive

8: Switch to At Ease

9: Board vehicle

0: Heal/rearm

If the pointman or another AI teammember detects a contact(vehicle/men ect.), he'll signal 'Hold', go prone and then report the contact. Non commanding teammember can ussue following commands:

1: Contact.

2: Hold.

3: Get down.

ect.

'Aggressive':

The team form a line with the Teamleader center and with the MG or Mgs on the flank/s. Commands are given by shouts and handsignals.

Commands:

1: Advance

2: Hold

3: Go prone

4: Engage

5: Cover this direction

6: Cover 360

7: Switch to Aggressive

8: Switch to At Ease

9: Board vehicle

0: Heal/rearm

'At ease':

The formation is either a staggered column or just plain disorganised. Commands are given by shouting and no hand signals.

Commands:

1: Move to

2: Hold

3: Shoulder weapon

4: Rest(AI will assume relaxed standing, sitting positions and prform random relaxing animations)

5: Sing cadences

6: Random soldier pranks, joking, bragging, fighting, masturbating :O

7: Switch to Aggressive

8: Switch to Switch to stealth

9: Board vehicle

0: Heal/rearm

How to target waypoints and assign orders to AI/teammember:

I'd like to use freelook as command interface, either use to crosshair as cursor or a pointed 'commandfinger'.

(Please forgive my artistic skills)

As a teamleader you perform different actions with your 'commandfinger' or freelook crosshair.

Point in one direction and press:

1: Advance

2: Cover this direction

3: Engage

4: Fire and movement

5: Heal/rearm

6: Board vehicle

ect.

These are general orders for the whole team. You can also target an individual by pointing at him, followed by a 'You' or several 'You', 'you', 'you' and then point in the direction and press 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

The privates can use the finger to report enemies with a clock indicator: UAZ 10 o'clock.

------------------

Skins, appearance and gear:

There are a couple of factors that determines the appreance of a soldier: Class, uniform and nationality.

Class appearance:

Regular infantery: standart BDU, regular webbing, no bagpack, regular weapons, medium equipment slots.

Crew: standart BDU, regular webbing, no bagpack, regular weapons, medium equipment slots.

Pilot: G-suit, no bagpack, survival equipment, handgun, minimum equipment slots

Special Operators: specialized/modified BDU, regular webbing, no bagpack, special weapons, medium equipment slots.

Long Range Recon Patrols: specialized/modified BDU, regular webbing, bagbacks, special weapons, maximum equipment slots.

Uniform appearance:

The uniform will be determined by the area, each island will be classified as woodland, desert or snow.

National appearance:

The western soldiers in the singleplayer campaign is proberly going to be american soldiers. But western soldier basically wear the same gear and the only major differences is camo pattern, weapons and helmet. It would be easy to create an allround western soldier, which you with ease could modify as US, Canadian, Australian, UK, german. With a click on a flag icon, you'd be able to change the camo pattern, weapon and headgear to suit your desire to play as G.I. Joe, Jerry, Bruce or (sorry what the nickname for UK soldiers?).

I hope some of this makes sense and please disregard my lack of a higher english education.

Dallas

PS. I'm a big fan of Vietcong's ingame proximity voicechat that lowers over distance and player models move their lips when players voicechat.

[Metalmalte 0]

that does really sound interesting.

one more idea for the map editor:

it should be possible to change to some kind of blueprintscreen. for example zooming in to a building, the screen changes to a blueprint where you then can see the walls and windows of that building. for easier unit placement i thought, that would help a little?!?

[Ryujin 0]

Im hope the ai can place themselves in a good positon when you give the command move to house 3 o'clock. then inside you could say "3 move to east side". but that could be tricky as the bulidings can have holes put in walls/floor

[Mox 0]

Well.....I would like the AI to be smart enough to create their own addons.

[DBR_ONIX 0]

Well.....I would like the AI to be smart enough to create their own addons.

I bet a lot of people would like the AI to be smart enough to do their homework for them......

I hope the AI dont just stand about like idiots while getting shot at, and can use decent use of cover, not just lie down and cover their eyes..

- Ben

[lwlooz 0]

Hello,

I thought that it might be a good idea to allow for the user to change the color of the ingame text messages (chat).For example when you play night missions the bright color could screw with your vision.I thought that could be included by either a Settings-Panel ingame and if thats not possible,maybe let modmakers change it.

P.S.:I did not read any similar messages and Bn880 definitely did not shoot... ehm,tell me to post this here

[Thunderbird 0]

Quote[/b] ] TahomaB24="hfont16";

TahomaB36="hfont16";

TahomaB48="hfont16";

CourierNewB64="hfont16";

Garamond64="hfont16";

SteelfishB64="hfont32";

SteelfishB128="hfont32_16";

AudreysHandB48="hfont16";

AudreysHandI48="hfont16";

These are the current Fonts usuable in OFP , it would be great if BIS guys would incorporate a bit more of Fonts for mod makers , that will allow us to make better GUIs with nice selections titles

Best Regards

Thunderbird84

[Kuja- 0]

I don't know whether it has been mentioned, but one of the more immediate things that needs to be done is in regards to the actual giving of commands. At the moment, commands are serially given and the entire preceding command must be 'spoken' before the next one can be given.

It would be nice if the AI actually reacted to the commands instantaneously and the actual voice/subtitle commands were just for show. It sucks when the squad is under fire and I have to wait 10-15s for a series of commands to go through before the AI begin reacting. It is especially annoying when trying to manage the inventories of the AI. Waiting for 6 "drop grenade" commands per AI is a total pain in the ass.

[Le Minh Duc 0]

In fact, I must remeber number of ammo remains in chamber, not on corner of screen. I dont like it exists on interface (realism)

In game, sometimes I dont know Im in stand, crouch or prone, or where I was wounded so if u are realists, pls add this stats or some more to interface while delete the ammo number (Anyone knows how they are)

[Le Minh Duc 0]

I thought it good to allow players to make macro of controls or at least allow users to hotkey actions (IMHM, players can capture any action they like in game to option menu and make hotkey is bểtter than doing everything with scroll button)

[ofpchaos 0]

For faster work on editor we need "undo" and "redo" functions (20 times or more) and "search" function to find on the map units, unittypes, object (IDs) etc. Very usuable were color pattern to give this for logic objects and movement paths - so the missionmaker can see better which paths belongs to which units.

[maxqubit 1]

A GRAW crosscom thing (ok, a bit futuristic) ... so that you can see what an (ai) teammate sees when you are in command.

Say i order a (ai) teammate to pickup a car in a village beyond visibility (is there a car?)

Now i use mount command and see the list of vehicles available and have to guess the situation, etc. ... a crosscom would make this much more direct (without all the text, etc.)

[Jinef 2]

Ok, - Raven Shield.

When pressing a key a lovely circular menu comes up where you can select options. Here is a good way it could be applied to OFP.

Press ~ = SELECT ALL

Hold Alt = FIRE DIRECTION MENU

Left Click On Desired Option

The Fire Direction menu could consist of:

Watch and Shoot: You want your fireteam/squad to watch the road leading to a town

Harassing Fire: You want your fireteam/squad to fire a few scattered rounds at the road leading to a town

Suppressing Fire: You want your fireteam/squad to fire a lot of scattered rounds at the road leading to a town

Targeted Rapid Fire: You want your fireteam/squad to dig a hole in the road using bullets :P

Maybe hold down control for a movement menu:

Press ~ = SELECT ALL

Hold Ctrl = MOVEMENT DRILL MENU

Left Click On Desired Option

The Movement Drill menu could consist of:

Contact Drill: Alternate bounds while laying down suppressive fire.

Hook Left: One team goes left while other is laying down suppressive fire.

Hook Right: One team goes left while other is laying down suppressive fire.

Fall Back Drill: Same as contact drill, just going backwards.

Bayonet Charge: For the stiff old traditionists among us.

These drills are essential to modern infantry and are too fluid and fast for a human player to fuck around with selecting AI and telling them to move. They are called drills because as soon as you hear the words "CONTACT DRILL" you are on your feet running and you know your mates are firing to cover you.

I know some people who may dislike the idea of having pre-scripted movements for the AI at the human's control, however in reality it is much the same. Section ICs rarely tell people to do lots of tasks, they just initiate the best drill for the situation at hand and everyone knows exactly what to do after 3 seconds of orders ..... (The British Army r0Xx0rS!1!11!

Things like 'take cover' should be automatic in the AI. When the shooting starts, the only people standing in the open should be human players :P

Formations can be controlled by a menu however I want to see far more flexibility in formations. Currently it is like watching a big parade ground as people are perfectly aligned.

>If I order a line formation I don't want to see AI moving out of cover to be parallel to me ....

>If I am moving in column and I am shot at from the front, my AI should automatically spread out to the flanks when finding cover.

Low skill AI groups should err on the side of caution, choosing to take cover, harass/suppress the enemy, and wait for force superiority.

Higher skill AI groups could be more agressive, ducking from cover to cover, suppressing you as they go. Then finally charging after stunning your squad with hand grenades.

At that time you surrender

[Pyronick 21]

keep the ingame interface as "quiet" as possible -

nothing distracts more than a ugly HUD, look bf1942 for example it has the ugliest in game hud i ever saw

and make it so you have options to customize the hud which gets displayed and which not.

youve already done an excellent job in ofp1

- one big plus of ofp 1 was its nice hud, almost nonexistant but informative and it is possible bcs of fading out info to have a view most of the time with NO hud at all, which adds a lot to the athmosphere

Yeah I really like this, when I started playing OFP I was like: "wtf?".

Operation Flashpoint took me out of the arcade game world and has put me in the realism game world.

I hope ArmA/ArAs won't have a crosshair anymore too, or at least a server option to disable crosshairs...

[Le Minh Duc 0]

hold ctrl and scroll up or down to increase or decrease moving speed

[funnyguy1 0]

Good post Jinef...

idea about giving orders via handsignals..

You Press the button and your character automatically rises his hand, then a small dot in the middle of the creen appears and you draw a crircle, at least you make fast move with your mouse just to draw something that looks like a circle...

And gues what? You`ve just given an order to your team (character has made a signal with his hand/ or shouted something). I don`t remember any game with this kind of system. Idea inspired by General Barron`s handsignals addon.

[xawery 0]

Funnyguy,

your idea sounds interesting but I fear it would become somewhat impractical in the heat of action. Hand gestures are used for communicating because they are easy and quick to perform. Drawing a gesture with a mouse is much more difficult. First you have to bring up the gesture option then actually perform it, making sure you do not perform a different gesture by mistake. The indy game Darwinia used a mouse-drawn gesture system for selecting weaponry and such. It was fun at first, but once the novelty had worn off, it became very cumbersome, especially in action-packed situations.

Personally, I think the idea proposed by Jinef is very good. Easy to use, not distracting and encompassing all necessary movements and commands. There is one gripe though. The current command system requires the player to remove his hand from either the mouse or the movement keys, thus making him vulnerable. Jinef's system doesn't get rid of this problem. A context sensitive system a la Rainbow Six is more intuitive and less distracting. Perhaps a third button on the mouse could be used to bring up the menu. Most mice nowadays have more than 3 buttons so it shouldn't be a problem.

[funnyguy1 0]

There is one gripe though. The current command system requires the player to remove his hand from either the mouse or the movement keys, thus making him vulnerable.

Well, that`s the main reason I wrote the previous post...

You`re right saying that drawing something during the fight might be strange, but how hard is it now? I mean with the courrent system?

I didn`t see that game you mentioned, but I`m talking about something very simple rather than drawing complex marks...

Basic orders used under enemy fire, usually needed to be spoken, shown quite fast...Drawing a short line, even during reload or runing, isn`t such a problem like giving the same order with the courrent system. If you practice, you woudln`t mistake with drawing line left, right, up or down...

Ofcourse It`s not the best solution...

I have another idea, but will post it later

edit: Drawing might be helpful when in safe/stealth mode...

For ex: giving waypoints, or precisely pointing places, formations and actions...

But again, It`s another pop up menu on your screen, just like the R6 command system...  

edit2:

When you switch off the clock indicator on your HUD, listening to all this "3 o`clock" thing is pointless. There should be shomething more useful instead... Sometimes when you`re busy with speculating where the hell is the "3 o`clock" and why isn`t there where it should be, the "tank at 3`oclock" are aiming at you from 10 o`clock...

Something like "watch out, enemy armour incomming" or GhostRecons-like "We`ve got armour!" would be a lot better..

In game2, however, the distance between you and the enemy apc/tank should be a lot bigger...What I mean is that there won`t be situations (quite common in ofp1), where your AT soldier kills half of your squad with AT4 because the tank drowe so close, you could actually  touch it...

[FatNinjaKid 0]

Got any ideas on how the server can technically detect if orders are being followed by another human player or not?

[funnyguy1 0]

There are objectives which server has to controll, no matter which orders were given and which ones were or weren`t followed by either human or AI.

Only the commander should have full acces to the commands, and if somebody don`t want to COOPerate, well no need to explain how to kick him out of the game.

Moreover, the commander`s interface should be a bit different than for ex rifleman`s one. I mean, team leader should focus more on giving orders rather than doing anything else. Ofp still have this type of gameplay where you`re the one who makes 70% of things, no matter if you`re the leader or not.

Let`s take the cqb under consideration, and compare ofp to full spectrum warrior. If AI in ofp could move like those from fsw, I mean, use proper cqb tactics, we should have the ability to controll them using a point and click addition to our hud (to directly pick the spot/wall where you want them to move), or simply different system that would provide such controll.

What I`m getting at is that the interface depends on some other features.

Anyway, the drawing orders/handsignals and having the ability to use pointing and clicking to directly show your AI what to do just like in fsw is a nice alternative for the system we know from swat or ofp. Moreover in my opinion we should have a system which allows us to controll the whole squad/fireteams and *particualr units like sniper/at soldier/mg gunner realistically without being forced to mess with every member of your squad.*

Everything else should just `work`. No more 2/3/(...)/11/12 > go there/watch there/get down and so on...

edit:

by ** this I mean separate and more accesible commands for each type of soldier that has some "extra" atributes like sniper, AT soldier, RTO. That would require some work with the AI of particular soldier so that he could behave realistically using tactics siutable for his proffesion.

[djura 0]

I think, that system levels of importance in radio comunication can be very useful too. When I ambush enemies camp, my gunner in tank and other team partners start to speak about enemy units, witch they can see and I cant give fire command to gunner.

[Chaos 0]

We needs in editor a search function. Searching for unit Names, object IDs and others.