Ai thread

[fraghetti 10]

(This was posted before, but) the AI prefering nearly all the time the prone position is a bit problematic, since its not rare for them to go prone when they have something in front of them like a wall, or another object, or some times going prone in the presence of armored vehicles that they are not equiped to deal with instead of fleeing.

yes, this really is an issue which steals a lot of atmosphere if you play against AI.

anyone else realised that if you shoot a car/any other transportation with AI in it, the AI doesnt die until it doesnt get directly hit by rockets (hydra example)? if you just shoot one meter away and the vehicle explodes, the AI still disembarks and is alive. or are the explosion themselves so non-lethal?

[2nd ranger 282]

DenyUnitPos command.

I hate that the AI goes prone so much as well. Overhauling the AI so they are better able to choose the correct stance is probably unrealistic at this point, so perhaps a new command like this would be a suitable compromise for mission makers.

Basically the command would not allow the AI to select a particular stance. Alot of the time I force the AI to crouch, but that is not always the best option. This command would, for example, allow the AI to choose between standing and crouch positions, but prevent them from going prone. Or you could deny the "up" position if you wanted to force them into looking stealthy.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I would prefer enableAI/disableAI "PosUp" "PosProne" and "PosKneel" (and "Rotation" separate from "Move").

[stun 5]

The defensive AI in A2 is the worst I have seen in an FPS. When attacking the AI is pretty good, but there seems to be nothing coded for defensive situations. I did a test with setting some units up behind sand bags and set them a hold way point. What did the AI do; they promptly laydown behind the sandbags and refused to get up. I played as an enemy unit and wandered up to the sand bags and shot one of the units and then ducked down on the other side of the sand bags. How did the units respond - they didn't! they just kept behind the sandbags and didn't move! Come on BI in 2010 it is unacceptable that defensive AI hasn't evolved since Flashpoint.

At the very least units should kneel behind cover unless they are supressed. They should also move to appropriate cover to get a better shot. At the moment AI will not move on its own to get get a better shot.

[Cookieeater 10]

I'm so shocked by how unresponsive AI is in CQC. In CQC in a town, AI can literally be running right next to each other, and then take 5 seconds to shoot at each other.

[maturin 12]

They should also move to appropriate cover to get a better shot. At the moment AI will not move on its own to get get a better shot.

And when using Zeus AI they do, so it is very possible.

[stun 5]

@maturin

Agreed. I have just been testing using Zeus AI and there is a definate improvement in defensive capability. Makes you wonder why BI don't sort this out with hard coding as vanilla is frankly embarassing at the moment.

[maturin 12]

I think that formations are the single biggest obstacle to use of cover, which is at the heart of defensive behavior. You can have a unit that works together, or a unit that hides from bullets, but it is incredibly difficult to have both without using the complex logical faculties of the human brain. The split second you spend analyzing vectors and overlapping lines of fire to choose what wall to hide behind could bring your computer to its knees.

The AI also needs to get better at dealing with units that run out of sight. The basic functionality is there: they track the invisible man based on their last-known speed and heading. But they get carried away with themselves and end up aiming all over the place in case that militia decided to sprint through a whole tire factory and a mountain. With more common sense they could aim sooner at the spot where the enemy disappeared instead, or only track them through objects if the object in question is small and not a hillside.

[enforcer1975 0]

The AI has gotten more and more stupid in every version..

Either you can run around them blindfolded then kill them or you don't even know where the shot came from, there is nothing in between.

If you fight against hard or insane(?) AI ( setting in warfare ) you get shot with 2000000% accuracy from unbelievable distances. If you happen to have AI on you they won't even shoot a guy beyond 200m if they are not told to, and if told they run there first to fire from point blank.

I would also appreciate it when AI doesn't see so far and accurate when it's dark and they don't have NV equipped.

I had an AI running to my spot ( detecting me via noise from 20m, while moving one leg after another while squating ) standing next to me like a dog showing "here, there's something here" but doing nothing while i was playing the campaign. First it was a laugh, then it became annoying how they could pinpoint you when you make a tiny move ( by hearing the grass beeing flattened ).

So much for the advanced AI.

[ArmAriffic 10]

the AI can also walk and see through some wall's

[enforcer1975 0]

The "through wall" bug is only on "broken" parts of a wall where the player has to go prone to get under it or climb over it. Seems the AI can't handle thinking about what to do with an obstacle like a hole in a fence, they would run around until they can get around it. So they "glitch" through the wall.

The AI uses the spheres ( the ones for simulating what you would see at the edges of your real fov ) to identify and acquire targets as far as my experience goes.

[ZeosPantera 0]

The AI are all alcoholics. Alcoholics or Ding Chavez.

[instagoat 133]

One thing that keeps annoying me is that the AI seem to prefer running over shooting. More than once I´ve seen an AI target an enemy right in front of them, but instead of opening up they started running around to get a better shot. While this is acceptable if the enemy is far away or hidden, it´s really screwing up when the enemy is right under their nose.

Also, AI running around corners without checking. Maybe what you need to implement is a "peek around corner" routine, where the AI just quickly pops around the corner, does a scan, and then moves back again.

[maturin 12]

One thing that keeps annoying me is that the AI seem to prefer running over shooting. More than once I´ve seen an AI target an enemy right in front of them, but instead of opening up they started running around to get a better shot. While this is acceptable if the enemy is far away or hidden, it´s really screwing up when the enemy is right under their nose.

Also, AI running around corners without checking. Maybe what you need to implement is a "peek around corner" routine, where the AI just quickly pops around the corner, does a scan, and then moves back again.

I completely agree. Modifying this behavior would yield the single greatest increase in AI effectiveness.

[blackettle 10]

I completely agree. Modifying this behavior would yield the single greatest increase in AI effectiveness.

I just wish they would stop crashing aircraft.

[Macadam Cow 1]

Guys, I've been reading the last 10 pages of this thread and while most of the rants here are legit you shouldn't forget that artificial intelligence is the most difficult/challenging thing the devs have to build.

If it was SO easy don't you think you would have already seen incredible AI in games like MOH or COD, where everything is scripted ? Where there is 10 times more people working on those games with a 10 times bigger budget ?

You want improved physics, improved driving models, improved flying models, you want this army to be included, you find unacceptable that stuff isn't working,...

Yes, ok, the game isn't perfect but you're playing with the only dynamic AI ever created for a FPS of this scale.

I've read a lot of good stuff in this thread and each time I was thinking "damn it would be awesome" and I guess the guys at BI feel the same way but they can't work on everthing at the same time.

Say nothing got improved since OFP is stupid.

1. Many things have been improved, sometimes those are slight changes you don't even notice because it looks normal/natural. Anyone reminds the AI dance ?

2. Every thing was simplier in the OFP world, just take a look at Malden then load Tchernarus, if you don't realize how much more complex it became then I don't know what to say.

3. OFP was your first experience in the serie, at that time you weren't so demanding. Being able to load your troops in an helo and to do an airborne assault was already a boner factor. Now it became something absolutely normal.

All I want say is keep things in perspectives guys, as I said if it was so easy richer, bigger companies working on simplier gaming would have done it before.

This community can be so ungrateful at times, wether it is with BIS or with addon makers. I'm sure BIS is doing his best to please the more of us.

That being said it doesn't mean I find the game perfect, specially when it comes to AI.

It is still a mystery for me why enhancement like GL4, SLX, Zeus,...aren't implemented into the game...but hey...life is a mystery ;)

Edited November 29, 2010 by Macadam Cow

[spamurai 3]

My Basic Laundry List:

INFANTRY -

They don't recognize a kill-zone for what it is. They need to be taught how to stay out of the FoV of dangerous threats and not use any calculated navigation node that moves them into the FoV of a such threats.

If you can teach the AI to locate a corner edge of a building, then you can teach them to see the Field of View cast by enemy vehicles and static emplacements.

Too often I see AI find cover... but then dash out into harms way in clear view of the Heavy Machine gun they initially took cover from.

Infantry need to dismount their transports more effectively and faster. Teach them a dismount drill... play that drill and get them off their transports like soldiers... and not single file like school children off the big yellow bus. Transports come with wide doors and loading ramps for a reason.

LAND VEHICLES -

Wheeled vehicles do fairly well... but they need an incremental throttle control when grouped with Infantry. If the Infantry walk at 5kph then the vehicle should just drive at 5kph... not race the engine and flash the brakes constantly trying to regulate 5kph.

Tracked vehicles need to start exhibiting behavior consistent with the image of being the multi-tonne vehicles they are. They race around, power sliding around corners and crashing through things like it's a Tokyo drift competition. They're an all terrain vehicle who can't seem to drive a straight line for more then 30m before pulling a dukes of hazard maneuver.

When paired with Infantry vehicles need to stay put as a platform more and let Infantry work around them, and not constantly shift around trying to maintain their place in formation as much.

Land Vehicles all overshoot their waypoints causing navigation problems. They drive full speed to the waypoint and then try and stop causing them to roll past. They should know how and where to reduce speed to land on their waypoints perfectly. Otherwise, they overshoot and crash into stuff or over-steer and fishtail into trouble.

AIR VEHICLES:

Teach them how to Land in a Combat zone with some sense of urgency... and not be so "delicate". They take forever to pick a landing spot and then put down on it.

[nkenny 1051]

excellent post.

-k

[jgbtl292 0]

the problem is bis make in patch over batch the ai more stupid ;)

install arma 2 vanilla and you will see agood ai !

the make smokewalls, the go in half groups under mg suppresion fire forward.

they used bushes and trees for hide.

and then install the patches and look what the ai make.

it makes less and less with all new patches.

the child is shouting to the performance - this is the biggest problem.

i have a good pc - and for the guys with a good pc - maby bis make a

ai intelligence slider :cool:

[demonized 20]

As of patch 1.55 some beta version, and now in official 1.56 version, AI flying big helis, mi8, chinook will crash into mountains etc 50% or more of the time, seems the big helis have been given more "weight", wich makes them slower to adjust with and AI cant keep up with it.

AI are still flying the chinook as if it was an MH6 (littlebird)

In our domination servers now, Takistan is littered with ammo drop chinook wrecks, and Main target mi8 paradrop helis...

Edit: this has been fixed in patch 1.57.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Demonized
update post

[metalcraze 290]

AI is also crashing like mad when flying planes like Harrier.

This is especially noticeable when making them drop bombs on IR marker's location in hilly areas of Chernarus, like Nadezhdino.

They go too low and are inable to climb up in time again.

Edited December 8, 2010 by metalcraze

[tj72 0]

In my use of AI choppers I notice they dive very aggressively. If you are in the chopper when they do it, its like a roller coaster. Its like a madman flying style that is interesting but may reflect a more responsive chopper AI. They sometimes recover at the last moment but often other times they hit crash. If you give a waypoint to a heli and put code in to flyinheight 30,20,10 around hilly areas I believe this shows the issue. Choppers seem to move very fast towards the destination so the effect of the chopper raising up in the air at an LZ seems to be increased. The speed mode should be set to normal or limited during landing approaches. For me it seems like the heli moves around a busy map with domove commands far better than waypoints. The harrier seems to move reliably with waypoints and often times ignores the domove command.

Harriers, I had to make special scripts to lock the plane in altitude and vector for x amount of seconds so they wont dive during a bombing run. Otherwise they seem to fare better at ground avoidance than choppers but my flyinheight is set to 500. I dont think planes should fly nap of earth unless human driven.

If you are playing on hilly maps like Takistan then choppers need more work in their waypoints to keep them high above the mountains and probably not using full speed mode unless very high in the air and in between move waypoints and not landing. I will test this further. I do like how the chopper AI seems more lively, I just hope it will obey commands reliably and not dive towards the ground if reasonable settings are used.

[spamurai 3]

I think the AI Vehicles have a Waypoint problem. They fly/drive full tilt to the physical coordinate of the waypoint location and then stop. Only they don't stop, they decelerate first causing them to stop beyond it.

When a Helicopter arrives at a waypoint, they nose-up to decelerate which also causing them increase altitude dramatically. They should be programmed to reduce altitude like a human pilot would do to balance this behavior out.

Perhaps when an aircraft, like a helicopter, plots it's path that it set's out it's intermediary navigation nodes (that form the path) so they account for the average height of the terrain they are flying over. That way they can foresee mountains long before they get there and can set an average flying height that will make it easier on them to make adjustments. That way they are not trying to dynamically scan the terrain as much, making last minute corrections in real time... then that last minute dramatic increase in height to avoid a cliff won't surprise them.

I see to many Helicopters riding the hills like a rollercoaster... they come over the apex of a hill and then dive down into the valley, then pull up at the last moment to rocket of the far side... if the far side is too steep they crash, or the slow to a stop and climb straight up to get over it... rinse and repeat.

Stealth Mode - Helicopters stay low and don't fly over hills, they fly around heights set over-top of a certain thresh-hold height.

Safe Mode - They fly at a height that requires no adjustment, they calculate the highest point they would have to fly over and then set their entire path at that height.

Danger Mode - They would calculate an average height that attempts to smooth out dramatic changes in height along the path to be more uniform.

I'd also like to see Helicopters with better combat behavior... fewer strafing runs like fixed wing aircraft and more orbiting and assuming stations behind cover to make pop-up attacks with missile and cannon.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Spamurai

[Stagler 39]

The AI need to be able to go inside buildings on their own when they are fighting to take full advantage of protection. Instead of having to use scripts to do this. they should do that by default

[maturin 12]

The AI need to be able to go inside buildings on their own when they are fighting to take full advantage of protection. Instead of having to use scripts to do this. they should do that by default

They do. Buy OA.