Graphics engine improvement

[liquidpinky 11]

Tracers (and I'm guessing hot lead bullets) and flares need to be white hot in FLIR.

So do birds. Are the other animals?

The edges of the rotors of helicopters, as in this video... (if they glow like this in Night Vision I'm certain they do in FLIR, too)

qYAUcBaXmXI

Do barrels of weapons start to glow in FLIR when they are fired?

That will just be the luminous painted rotor tips lighting up with the landing lights, if anything the rotor blades will be ice cold and not hot at all. Otherwise my RC heli wouldn't be up in the air very long with it's plastic rotors. ;)

[dm 9]

That will just be the luminous painted rotor tips lighting up with the landing lights, if anything the rotor blades will be ice cold and not hot at all. Otherwise my RC heli wouldn't be up in the air very long with it's plastic rotors.

Wrong.

As I said, what you see in the NVG is the sand/dust/dirt being struck by the rotors and causing sparks/heat.

See The Kopp-Etchells Effect

As for being hot - typically (I realise it varies from helicopter to helicopter) they're ~9m long blades being thrashed through the air at ~250 rpm. Theres gonna be a TON of air friction causing them to heat up. Sure they wont be red hot, but they will be a lot hotter than other parts of the helo.

[gossamersolid 155]

LOD handling and Streaming should have BIS's full attention right now, its horrid in Operation Arrowhead.

I can deal with Z fighting but the constant LOD thrashing even at playable FPS is total killer for the game.

you seem to be complaining a lot... why don't you move on to another game then? Enjoy it or don't!

Most of these suggestions are completely unreal... they aren't going to re-write their engine for a patch...

[Flash Thunder 10]

you seem to be complaining a lot... why don't you move on to another game then? Enjoy it or don't!

Most of these suggestions are completely unreal... they aren't going to re-write their engine for a patch...

If I wasnt enjoying the game why would I be on here?

No they wont fix all these issues in a patch but if you havent already noticed, BIS games are always a Work in Progress and same goes for their engine RV, its enhanced along the way either through updates to the engine, an expansion release and frequently through patches, which somehow contradicts you.

Maybe you're just reading my post out of context...

[liquidpinky 11]

Wrong.

As I said, what you see in the NVG is the sand/dust/dirt being struck by the rotors and causing sparks/heat.

See The Kopp-Etchells Effect

As for being hot - typically (I realise it varies from helicopter to helicopter) they're ~9m long blades being thrashed through the air at ~250 rpm. Theres gonna be a TON of air friction causing them to heat up. Sure they wont be red hot, but they will be a lot hotter than other parts of the helo.

The dust strikes I will give you, it is called the Kopp-Etchells effect, where helicopters in dusty environments actually suffer abrasive damage.

As for rotors heating up, they are actually more concerned by keeping ice off them it seems. http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=875207&show=html

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=186283&page=23

The only thing I can find about heat and rotors is a warning not to leave your RC helis in a car on a hot day as it knackers the resin on wooden bladed helis.

[dm 9]

As for rotors heating up, they are actually more concerned by keeping ice off them it seems.

Ice is always a problem at altitude, where the external temp is below freezing.

As for heating up, rather than argue about it, have a picture:

Apologies for the small size, but this is all my google-fu could come up with.

CH-47 through TI, you can clearly see that the blades are glowing hot.

[liquidpinky 11]

Ice is always a problem at altitude, where the external temp is below freezing.

As for heating up, rather than argue about it, have a picture:

Apologies for the small size, but this is all my google-fu could come up with.

CH-47 through TI, you can clearly see that the blades are glowing hot.

I think i will concede on this one too, found this better thermal image as well.

If BIS did implement it they would have to adjust the heat signature for altitudes and running time etc as it would look naff with the blades glowing on a heli that is parked up.

But, if they can do it for gun barrels.....

[Flash Thunder 10]

Well I cant see why BIS mods took down the physics sticky thread but Ill post this here i guess.

Multiphysics simulator tech by Lagoa

http://vimeo.com/13457383

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/lagoa-multiphysics-engine-is-simply-stunning-20100720/

Impressive tech!

I have high hopes for BIS's next Real Virtuality engine

[Luomu 10]

Well I cant see why BIS mods took down the physics sticky thread but Ill post this here i guess.

Multiphysics simulator tech by Lagoa

http://vimeo.com/13457383

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/lagoa-multiphysics-engine-is-simply-stunning-20100720/

Impressive tech!

I have high hopes for BIS's next Real Virtuality engine

This is precalculated + prerendered (there's a couple interactive parts shown) for 3D animation purposes so don't expect games to go there for quite a few years :)

[Flash Thunder 10]

This is precalculated + prerendered (there's a couple interactive parts shown) for 3D animation purposes so don't expect games to go there for quite a few years :)

of course I believe it says in one of the articles it would be around 5 years, or at least thats what I think it will take to become easily implemented into real time apps.

Arma 3 is probably going to take awhile, BIS (from what Dwarden has said) seems like they will look into gutting alot of the engine, big investment and hopefully the physics will come with it in the next 5 years. :)

[TimRiceSE 10]

of course I believe it says in one of the articles it would be around 5 years, or at least thats what I think it will take to become easily implemented into real time apps.

Arma 3 is probably going to take awhile, BIS (from what Dwarden has said) seems like they will look into gutting alot of the engine, big investment and hopefully the physics will come with it in the next 5 years. :)

Where did dwarden say that?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Maybe in Arma10. Sorry but not remotely feasible for a game. Physics is random and based heavily on the input state. Means results will differ on each client due lag and random factors, unless we have the bandwidth by then to let server do all the calculations. I'd rather have "spare time" devoted to AI thinking, maybe populate the island more instead of tiny pockets of targets. Also I value improvements in the lighting engine higher than the physics engine.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Where did dwarden say that?

I dont remember probably in a beta patch thread, not making it up and its what BIS obviously has to do inorder to stay ahead of the game to keep massively updating their platform, who knows maybe they're going to pretty much make a new engine.

---------- Post added at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ----------

Also I value improvements in the lighting engine higher than the physics engine.

I agree, physics is nice but I would rather have improved lighting engine and improved shadows.

[Inkompetent 0]

Note that any and all advanced physics will have to be 100% clientside, since the game is already stretching the possibilities of bandwith. Stuff like syncronizing ragdolls across clients simply isn't possible, and bodies will end up in different places. The least differences on each client's interpretation of things might give dramatically different end results with 'real' physics, so it's simply not feasible, unless we should cap servers at 32 units (player + AI) or something.

As long we get rid of the bouncy tanks, screw phyics, and indeed focus on stuff like improved lighting (for example car lights not going through walls) and stuff like that. Much more important for the feeling :)

[Alselius 10]

Something that really disturbs me is that even if you're in complete darkness, when you look through NVG you still see shadows. This does not make sense at all and really breaks the immersion at times where the game looks otherwise almost real. Shouldn't be hard to remove shadows completely at night. And the contrast of both NVG and thermal imaging should be reduced a lot.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Alselius

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I just tested, and as expected there are no shadows in NVG as long as there is no shadowcasting lightsource creating it in the first place, like a moon. Tested with latest OA beta.

[SPC.Spets 21]

Something that really disturbs me is that even if you're in complete darkness, when you look through NVG you still see shadows. This does not make sense at all and really breaks the immersion at times where the game looks otherwise almost real. Shouldn't be hard to remove shadows completely at night. And the contrast of both NVG and thermal imaging should be reduced a lot.

the moon makes shadows too :rolleyes:

[Alselius 10]

Then its my bad. Still, the shadows should be much less evident as the moon doesn't shine too bright. It feels odd if you see really sharp shadows everywhere in the middle of the night.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Then its my bad. Still, the shadows should be much less evident as the moon doesn't shine too bright. It feels odd if you see really sharp shadows everywhere in the middle of the night.

Um this happens in the real world as well, just depends on the atmospheric conditions mostly.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Apparent size of moon and sun is about 2°? Think about it, how long does a solar eclipse last? A couple of minutes at best. Means their shadows have the same sharpness. Soft shadow (or, dark area if you will) under a car is not caused by the sun itself, but the atmosphere. Which is (partly) also why shadows at day are rarely fully black :p

[Alselius 10]

Soft shadow (or, dark area if you will) under a car is not caused by the sun itself, but the atmosphere. Which is (partly) also why shadows at day are rarely fully black :p

I guess that's what I meant. I'm aware that all light sources cast sharp shadows but for that they need to have perfect athmospheric conditions etc. You rarely have that at night. And the moon doesn't emit light, it reflects it. Might be a difference.

What I mean is that even though sometimes there are really cool sharp shadows at night that is a rare occasion not what its usually like. I hope this makes sense :)

[the_shadow 0]

multiple light sources...

or rather, shadows cast from multiple light sources and light not penetrating buildings/objects and terrain.

[horror1 10]

i have not a suggestion for arma2 but perhaps for a possible arma3 :D

[Inkompetent 0]

The Outerra engine has been linked over and over and over and over again. And still it looks like *beep* up close because all trees are just 2D sprites and so on. So yeah, it can render terrain nicely. But we got to populate it with decent-looking objects too, and this far there's no video of the engine managing to do that, so it's probably best suited for flight sims.

[nodunit 397]

Mutiple light sources would be great, it would definately give more objects for all around envirnomental effects and feels..the shadows could be linked to the shadow options in some way or perhaps better yet a check box for "Dynamic shadows" so you could tweak it on or off.

If possible upgrading light quality would be nice, maybe a ticker for that too? I don't know..I'm not sure if it's due to shadows but for some reason lights in RV engine have always seemed a bit dull in comparison to other engines, plus when up close they tend to turn off your normal and specular maps..I'm not sure if it still persists since green and red lights have been removed from aircraft which would have been the most obvious, it would be nice to have them back and dynamic shadows would make them look even better,

So many possibilities, you could have headlights on vehicles that cast shadows, your flashlight casts shadows, interiors of buildings cast shadows which could lead to more interesting pieces of work. You could add red lights to vehicles at night that would cast their red glow without going into the vehicle, ditto for aircraft lights and you could probably also add in dash lights for aircraft cockpits if they cast shadows (otherwise the lighting gets very funky) and it doesn't end there.

Thoug first and foremost I think HDR still needs some tweaking, it's come a long way since A1 and is doing great..infact curiously some buildings in Operation Arrowhead are immune to the HDR but when you get into a vehicle you still experience it especially in cargo areas.

Edited September 5, 2010 by NodUnit