Monkey Lib Front 10 Posted April 10, 2005 Id just like to point out the russian use of "pinocchio" in chechnya which breaks all sort of treatys, yes DU is toxic but it's the best way of penetrating a tanks armour, but the use of these weapons is for another thread probally in Offtopic which i think would be an interesting issue to discuss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackScorpion 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Well, nobody cared my post so I'll answer... They packed up their baskets and went for a picnic to see the explosion. Which is, nuclear bomb detonation. And about the DU rounds... I saw a document (yes, again... I watch alot of documents) about DU rounds, a Brit soldier talking about it. He participated in Des Storm and has had some healthy problems, most propably due the DU. The estimated amount of Brit soldiers that were somewhat affected by the DU's is thousands. Someone told a story when they were bringing destroyed/damaged tanks (don't remember which Iraq war, might've been the present one) to harbor to be exmined or repaired. They had there normal Army clothes. The fellas receiving the tanks had full NBC suits. Doesn't sound very nice, eh? DU rounds are dangerous. Even when not fired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted April 10, 2005 blackscorpion, you are right. Our opinios are 2 against all biforum (2 vs. all biforum)... but i will agree with you all (this time) that T tanks are the worst world tanks ever build, they have very bad handling, armor, targeting systems and weaponary... now you are satisfied? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Przezdzieblo 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Gedis i realy don't think that even sep abrams(without depleted uranium rouns) could outstand t-90... DU rounds are like cheats... i hate them, not because it's death for T tanks, because they are toxic for enviroment. Russians also has DU rounds on their tanks, but they never used them in war like americans, just because they are humans! Yes, sep's armor fascinates me, but also, it's depleted uranium... leapard-2, leclerk, chalender-2, they are good tanks and good armor, T-90 could wipe these tanks out, but when it comes to abrams, i hate it!!! besides, germans were testing t-72 armor with 105mm best gun they had, yeah and it proved that t-72 armor can stand against 105mm for 95%  and it was T-72m (export version!!!), what to say about T-72 not export version, or even T-90... ah... i know who will burn out sep to hell, it's black eagle! yeah... :P finaly, no more abrams as the undefeatable power... to canadian terror, but they haven't done it, while americans from desert storm till now, operation iraq freedom, uses DU rounds Well, I suppose that if Russian have any targets for their DU rounds, they would probably use it. But shooting to guerilla infantry with APFSDS seems not to be right way of using those AT ammo. You can try to see other reasons (ecology, human rights etc.), but do not ignore that obvious one. T90 with ammo from `80s could wipe all modern tank (probably PzKpfw V Panther would have a chance too), but not from front. There is some probability that round will find weak spot in heavy tank armour, but even then chance that Abrams will blow to pieces with all crew dead is not as high as that in T90 penetrated by M829A3... T72M could withstand much, but not the newest one 105 mm ammo could penetrate more than 500 mm RHAe at 2000... and today, when new light 105 mm guns are developed very soon will appear much more better ammo. T72M is a history, sorry. Black Eagle... you mean those new Russian tank, which will not be produced?  well, but fact is fact, that DU is toxic... i'm not talking about nuclear arsenal which is huge on both sides and not talking about it's testings... just depleted uranium rounds... you guys, think it's modern weapon, i think it's unhealthy weapon used in war... don't know how to say... no other nato or not nato countryes don't use this kind of rounds in war and i support them... about chernobyl, i don't think you don't know what means comunism... lets get back to thread... i just waiting your tank packs, to destroy with them as much as possible abrams tanks... i hate cheats, so let them all be destroyed Usually weapons is unhealthy... DU is toxic, MIGHT BE dangerous because of some small quanities of non-depleted Uranium, but RPG jet or pieces of APFSDS that penetrated armour and armour splinters ARE lethal. Bad influence of DU is still a matter of researches. But if someone saying about DU as a reason of so called Balkan syndrome or health problems of soldiers after DS, must remember that at modern battlefield there are many other unhealthy factors - f.e. radiowaves.  British also use DU rounds, AFAIR French too. but i will agree with you all (this time) that T tanks are the worst world tanks ever build, they have very bad handling, armor, targeting systems and weaponary... now you are satisfied? ?? Well, in late `60s T72 and T64 were probably the most powerfull tanks in the world. But we have 2005 today... A propos Challenger 2, I am still waiting for uparmoured Chally 2 with teddybear on TC`s sight  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianTerror 0 Posted April 10, 2005 I dont want to take it more offtopic than it has gone but this isnt even worth debating. It's just more Russian drama propaganda. If you say the US plays dirty during war and Russia doesnt...you're clueless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireflyPL 0 Posted April 10, 2005 well, but fact is fact, that DU is toxic... i'm not talking about nuclear arsenal which is huge on both sides and not talking about it's testings... just depleted uranium rounds... you guys, think it's modern weapon, i think it's unhealthy weapon used in war... don't know how to say... no other nato or not nato countryes don't use this kind of rounds in war and i support them... about chernobyl, i don't think you don't know what means comunism... lets get back to thread... i just waiting your tank packs, to destroy with them as much as possible abrams tanks... i hate cheats, so let them all be destroyed Sorry, but You can even eat pure Uranium as Uranium's molecule is very big and can't be inhaled by human's digesting system. It's green's propaganda that talks about DU. Even the Chernobyl disaster in modern scientific findings shows that in 50 years time only 15 thousend people would be affected by this. What's more, far more damage to enviroment is daily done by cars and coal/oil energy plants than all nuclear energy plants. Greens are liers as they don't care about enviroment, cause nuclear energy is purest of all available today (except wins, but that's totaly inefective way of colecting energy). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireflyPL 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Well, nobody cared my post so I'll answer... They packed up their baskets and went for a picnic to see the explosion. Which is, nuclear bomb detonation. And about the DU rounds... I saw a document (yes, again... I watch alot of documents) about DU rounds, a Brit soldier talking about it. He participated in Des Storm and has had some healthy problems, most propably due the DU. The estimated amount of Brit soldiers that were somewhat affected by the DU's is thousands. Someone told a story when they were bringing destroyed/damaged tanks (don't remember which Iraq war, might've been the present one) to harbor to be exmined or repaired. They had there normal Army clothes. The fellas receiving the tanks had full NBC suits. Doesn't sound very nice, eh? DU rounds  are dangerous. Even when not fired. Well the trouble is , that Gulf War Syndrome is most likely caused by injections of anti-bio war medicines and dozens of chemical factories destroyes by allied planes durrin GW. There are absolutely no scientific proof that DU can do harm. Sure it can cause health problems but mostly to the ctew of a tank hit by DU . All those programs that say that DU is bad, AP mines are bad, Cluster bombs are bad, it's just antiwar (far left) lobby propaganda. DU isn't much toxic than chemical propelant of shells, AP mines are best way to stop/slow down invasion and cluster bombs are still one of the most effective ways to halt enemy's columns. Sometimes I wander if antiwar lobby isn't financed by guns lobby as they allways seem to protest against efective weapons and thus do everything to make war last longer and cost more money/human lives etc. Still biggest killer and the most inhuman weapon is small arms like infameous Kalashnikov, which killed more people and civilians than any other weapon including nukes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKM 0 Posted April 10, 2005 This should be a fucking contest. "Let's see how far off topic we can take the thread before someone notices! HOORAH!" Gah. Barring discussion on DU, which is recognized to be a prime component of all modern APFSDS ammunition, making it the supreme tank-killing round of ammunition for modern tank gunnery, recognizing that modern Russian armour is capable, but not as much as the latest NATO pieces, and recognizing that for the eras specified, often Russo/Soviet technology outstripped it's NATO counterpart, but not always. IE: T-62 v. M-60A1/A3 Can we get back on topic now? It's also recognized internationally, and not only by "Green Parties" that the use of DU ammo in the First Gulf War has resulted in many "unexplained" and unacknowledged illnesses incurred by servicemen for all involved nations and civilians in the combat zone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireflyPL 0 Posted April 10, 2005 This should be a fucking contest."Let's see how far off topic we can take the thread before someone notices! HOORAH!" Yea. Can't agree more . Gah. Barring discussion on DU, which is recognized to be a prime component of all modern APFSDS ammunition, making it the supreme tank-killing round of ammunition for modern tank gunnery, recognizing that modern Russian armour is capable, but not as much as the latest NATO pieces, and recognizing that for the eras specified, often Russo/Soviet technology outstripped it's NATO counterpart, but not always. IE: T-62 v. M-60A1/A3 That's true. Can we get back on topic now? It's also recognized internationally, and not only by "Green Parties" that the use of DU ammo in the First Gulf War has resulted in many "unexplained" and unacknowledged illnesses incurred by servicemen for all involved nations and civilians in the combat zone. No not has, could result but there are no proof for this. Ilnesses could also be a result of many other factors (antibiowar drugs, chemical factories, chemical weapons storages destroyed by alies or even burning oil wells set on fire by Saddam - this could all be one of the factors) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackScorpion 0 Posted April 10, 2005 But there has also been these things in this Iraq war. Multiplied radiation levels etc. Pretty darn sure it's due DU. And I trust the document, it's not one of those made-in-2-hours-documents, the research team went to Iraq... I apologise this comment in advance. Goverment(s) just refuse to accept it, tell it to the public. I rather hear the men and women who actually got infected... Anyways, I'll (try to) stop to continue this conversation on my part and will post when there's something RHS related. This is just what I know... Keep on the excellent stuff, RHS team! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKM 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Quote[/b] ]No not has, could result but there are no proof for this. Ilnesses could also be a result of many other factors (antibiowar drugs, chemical factories, chemical weapons storages destroyed by alies or even burning oil wells set on fire by Saddam - this could all be one of the factors) I will acknowledge these possibilities but would also like to add that the inclusion of dusted DU fragments to this mix cannot possibly be for the better. Quote[/b] ]Anyways, I'll (try to) stop to continue this conversation on my part and will post when there's something RHS related. Perfect. Now if we all do this, problem solved. Of course, we can take this discussion to Off-Topic as well, and continue it there, because it definately has some merit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackScorpion 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Murphy's laws do work! Quote[/b] ]# No matter how neutral the topic, your message will offend SOMEONE Sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.S.C.Plage 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Inform yourself before stating bs!!! Quote[/b] ]DU is poryphor! At impact it ignites and burns at 3.000°C. A new hightemperatur-chemical which produces hightoxic and cancerous substances is the result. This substances fall out as Uraniumoxid. These DU-dust-particels are extremly small-sized. They have a diameter of 0,001 µmeter (10 Angstroem) up to 0,1 µmeter. Particels of this size behave like gas. That means they are moving up into the atmosphere and there they are moving around the planet with the atmospheric airstreams. In Bosnia DU was found in areas where no battles where fought.The submicroscopic DU-particels are inhaled. In the lung they come in contact with the blood and it's bloodcells, the so called Erythrozyten and Leukozyten. A Erythrozyt(e) has the size of 7 µmeter, DU-dust 0,1-0,001 µmeter. The dustparticel absorbes the bloodcell and penetrates it. All, defnitly all parts of our body are reached by our blood and in this way also by DU. Parts taken and translated from "Curse And Tragedy Of The Uranium Misuse (German; Version 1.3)" by Prof. Dr. A. Schott (Head of the World Depleted Uranium Center - WODUC) http://www.woduc.de/Html/Downloads_DE.htm I could give much more infos about this but then we should really continue in the off topic sector of the forum! Greetz Plage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianTerror 0 Posted April 10, 2005 So when's the tanks coming out? j/k I'm just putting it back on topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireflyPL 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Inform yourself before stating bs!!! Quote[/b] ]DU is poryphor! At impact it ignites and burns at 3.000°C. A new hightemperatur-chemical which produces hightoxic and cancerous substances is the result. This substances fall out as Uraniumoxid. These DU-dust-particels are extremly small-sized. They have a diameter of 0,001 µmeter (10 Angstroem) up to 0,1 µmeter. Particels of this size behave like gas. That means they are moving up into the atmosphere and there they are moving around the planet with the atmospheric airstreams. In Bosnia DU was found in areas where no battles where fought.The submicroscopic DU-particels are inhaled. In the lung they come in contact with the blood and it's bloodcells, the so called Erythrozyten and Leukozyten. A Erythrozyt(e) has the size of 7 µmeter, DU-dust 0,1-0,001 µmeter. The dustparticel absorbes the bloodcell and penetrates it. All, defnitly all parts of our body are reached by our blood and in this way also by DU. Parts taken and translated from "Curse And Tragedy Of The Uranium Misuse (German; Version 1.3)" by Prof. Dr. A. Schott (Head of the World Depleted Uranium Center - WODUC) http://www.woduc.de/Html/Downloads_DE.htm I could give much more infos about this but then we should really continue in the off topic sector of the forum! Greetz Plage Well, this is just an opinion of one guy, and as I can see this is site with certain "vision" of Uranium. The fact is that even ordinary shell can cause toxic gas, not mentioning that AFAIR tank armours are reinforced with DU as it is one of the hardest materials (and is quite cheap).. Take for example this World Health Organisation report on DU http://www.who.int/gb/ebwha/pdf_files/WHA54/ea5419a1.pdf "Depleted uranium has several peaceful applications: as counterweights or ballast in aircraft, radiation shields in medical equipment used for radiation therapy and containers for the transport of radioactive materials." "For the general population, it is unlikely that the exposure to depleted uranium will significantly exceed the normal background uranium levels." "CONCLUSIONS: RESEARCH Gaps in knowledge exist and further research is recommended in key areas that would allow better health-risk assessments to be made. In particular, studies are needed to clarify our understanding of the extent, reversibility and possible existence of thresholds for kidney damage in people exposed to depleted uranium. Important information could come from studies of populations exposed to naturally elevated concentrations of uranium in drinking-water." So still there are no scientific proof that DU can do more harm than natural existing Uranium. Oh and there is something about Balkans too http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2001/en/pr2001-22.html "Measurements of environmental DU at selected sites in Kosovo (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) indicate localized contamination (within a few tens of meters of impact sites) at the ground surface. This suggests that the likelihood of health consequences to the local population is very low unless people are active at the impact sites or the DU progresses in significant quantities to the food chain or ground water." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ag_smith 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Ok, I think that if you guys want to discuss about it any longer, make a thread about it in Offtopic forum and continue discussion there. This is RHS, not DU thread. Thank you for your time, and sorry about playing the moderator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hellfish6 7 Posted April 10, 2005 Yeah. What he ^ said. Ontopic, please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.S.C.Plage 0 Posted April 10, 2005 Yep...please continue here. Greetz Plage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Acecombat 0 Posted April 11, 2005 Nice barrel , real smooth and round shaped and the textures look good too if a bit blurred(?). P.S: Did you hurt your arm kenji , whats with that pink line . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pogingwapo 0 Posted April 11, 2005 Textures are like the FDF Russian Armoured vehicles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MontyVCB 0 Posted April 11, 2005 wow, that is good , good stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow NX 1 Posted April 11, 2005 Nice barrel , real smooth and round shaped and the textures look good too if a bit blurred(?).P.S: Did you hurt your arm kenji , whats with that pink line . They are long scars... The name Kendoka swordsman really fits to Kenji Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted April 11, 2005 Kenji, please make the iraq T-62 http://www.silentlywedefend.com/T62.JPG http://www.gospelcom.net/ocf/munoz/images/tank/t62b.gif http://www.1ofthefew.com/capturedarmor1.htm http://image24.webshots.com/25/6/2/24/32760224aEiYcL_ph.jpg http://trans.voila.fr/ano?sys....rl=http wery sorry that I started long and hard discussion about DU rounds... AKM, i'm sending huge thanx for kenji, can you deliver it to him? about that search light, yes it's the only difference betwen export version and iraq used T-62 export version with smal update-search light. P.S. This day is very "nice" day for me... looks like all world is against me... besides, this forums admin, warn me again about forum rules, that my signature is too big, pix what i give in posts are too big... what else will happen today? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKM 0 Posted April 11, 2005 Kenkakau. Â He's a wee bit cut up, but not someone I'd want twirling a Sakabatou within... 200 metres of me. Better for me to hide behind my AKS-74. Just talking with Kenji-san now. The reason that the T-62M-1 there looks "FDF-ish" is because he fiddled with the gamma and contrast for the screenshot. Textures are a bit different. He also told me to let you know that the Iraqi T-62A is merely an export T-62A with different paint. Possibly the only different thing is a search light - something that he doesn't have time for at the moment. Another teammember is likely to add that in the finishing stages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
