Mi-2 beta release...

[Johann "onn" Bitsoenn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (korzon @ Feb. 24 2003,23:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Regarding armed version in Soviet Union - have you any photo of armed, russian Mi2?

Armed versions were made only in Poland and I dont know if enyone else used them.<span id='postcolor'>

Once again I remind you that there is no problem in attaching arnament to Mi-2, because IT HAS special handles for it, in most russian Mi-2's used for mounting external fuel tanks. In state of war, when needed, this fuel tanks can be easily taken off, and any arnament mounted on immidiately.

Nobody differs F-16 with 3 external fueltanks from F-16 with air-to-air loadout. Arnament is easy to change.

Allright, that was not what my post was for. My post is a listing of all bugs noticed in this BETA version :]

=================

BETA TESTING RESULT

=================

1. Texture bug at nose section, textures are missing in some far-distance LOD

2. Some strange glitches sticked to roof, dunnow where they came from...

3. Strange green texture, probably author forgot to chage this small place texture from ALPHA version texture :]

4. No glasses inside

5. Something wrong with front light (korzon noticed it too)

No more bugs found by me. Only good things left :]

If anybody has noticed anything else, post it...

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Abrams @ Feb. 24 2003,20:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fighter @ Feb. 23 2003,033)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N.o.R.S.u @ Feb. 22 2003,20:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(from, this site is great Mi-26 by Stalker too)<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

MI-26 was made by DPS too not by Stalker<span id='postcolor'>

There was two seperate Mi-26 releases.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 25 2003,00:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Abrams @ Feb. 24 2003,20:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fighter @ Feb. 23 2003,03<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N.o.R.S.u @ Feb. 22 2003,20:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(from, this site is great Mi-26 by Stalker too)<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

MI-26 was made by DPS too not by Stalker<span id='postcolor'>

There was two seperate Mi-26 releases.<span id='postcolor'>

Yup...and both in my opinion are next to useless because the AI usually crashes them when they try to land.

Until that's fixed I won't use them in any missions... but sadly it may just be a problem with the OFP engine that prevents them from flying well. If it is something that can be fixed I hope one of them fixes the flight handling problems.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[hellfish6 7]

I agree - those Mi-26s are pretty good. I especially like the one with all the nifty animations. But Miles is right, they crash too often and they're a pain to fly. Too much mass and sluggish controls mean that you can't stop when you should, and overshoot your LZ by about 1000m.

[Abrams 0]

1. Korzon can you provide screens of Airwolfs MI-2?

2. If you DONT like public beta testing then why you using MI-2? I have only 7 addons on in my game those are the best of the best so im not downloading bugged addons(im downloading - testing - deleting if addon is bad).

3. Thanks for screens with bugs

[STS_SolidSnake 0]

7--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (korzon @ Feb. 24 2003,237)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Comparing the quality with Airwolf mod you have a lot of things to do. I dont like flamewars. I said only then this is early alpha in my opinion and you have a lot of things to do.

Isnt right?<span id='postcolor'>

Why do you compare it with an unreleased addon? And the textures on this MI-2 are way better then Airwolf mod.

ANd if you dont like flamewars why do you start one?

The rules goes as "Don't like: don't download don't complain"

MOdmakers spend alot of time working on their addons and ipeople like you say "It's early alpha, blabla", you couldn't do better.

[CrunchyFrog 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The rules goes as "Don't like, don't download, don't complain"<span id='postcolor'>

Why do we have a forum then?

Only to say "Hey thats a great addon! "

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CrunchyFrog @ Feb. 25 2003,13:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The rules goes as "Don't like, don't download, don't complain"<span id='postcolor'>

Why do we have a forum then?

Only to say "Hey thats a great addon!      "

<span id='postcolor'>

Nah of coarse not. I critique lots of addons myself (and yeah people don't always like it, but I try to do it politely and also say good things about the addon). But I think Korzon is just trashing it needlessly. If he wants to make comparison's with Airwolf's Mi2 then he should post screenshots of Airwolf's beta. Otherwise he's just being a troll. He never even posted screenshots of the texture problems. Airwolf should post on here to tell him to quit comparing the Mi2's because it makes Airwolf look bad as well. If he doesn't do that I'm assuming he approves of Korzon bashing this Mi-2 and saying that his is the best.

Oh...also to Korzon...if you read my original post you would have seen that I also noted that texture bug and that I wasn't exactly thrilled with the sound so I'm not just saying "Great addon! You rock!!!" or something.

However it is important to try and say positive things about an addon as well in order to encourage the addon maker to make the addon even better!

If all he gets is crap from people then he may feel discouraged and just abandon the project.

That's what happens when all they get is critiques like yours Korzon. There are some addons that have been posted here that I don't comment on because I think they're complete crap. It's simply because I know that those addon makers tried really hard and I don't want to discourage them, plus some people enjoy their addons and I prefer to let them comment. If you think this Mi-2 is really ugly and you hate it, then don't comment about it unless you can be very specific about what the problems are. Just saying that all the interior and cabin textures are alpha doesn't help much especially when most of us loved the interior and cabin textures. Of coarse its not all finished hence the reason why it's called a beta. But so far it looks quite nice and the maker of this addon should be encouraged to make it better.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[korzon 0]

First of all I compare the quality of nonfinished but released Mi-2 with nonfinished but not released Mi-2.

In my opinion AirwofPL Mi-2 is better textured.

Also without comparing I notified a lot of things needing rework. I will gather all of them and send in separate post.

Because of very "severe" stage of developpement in Mi-2 model I say then this is still alpha needing a lot of work.

I said clearly then this is not a scrap but early alpha.

Dont enter other meaning in my mouth. You could look int he topic and se what I posted.

External texture is good the rest needs rework - this is my feedback which you could find in my first message in this topic.

Have you even read my message?

I dont say then I dont like public testing - I commented only then model is in very early stage - whats wrong in it?

It isnt right?

Dont post me about "constructive critique" in sens of extase about "new beautyfull model"

I see what is wrong but modmaker know the best if he will change it and how to change it. I could only see errors and tell what is wrong. I dont know any other type of constructve critique in this case

I disagree also with the strategy of telling only good to addonmakers. If you could say only "geez, good job man" more probably is then he will release nonfinished model then he will correct anything - this is very human but in effect we have hunderst of nonfinished addons and small numer of ggod ones.

I think then this is demoralising

You have right to like those textures the same as I have right to see them as early alpha.

just compare:

AirwolfPL MI-2 screenshots were published on this board.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....4;st=10

AirwolfPL Mi-2 screens

[AirwolfPL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Johann "onn" Bitsoenn @ Feb. 25 2003,00:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Once again I remind you that there is no problem in attaching arnament to Mi-2, because IT HAS special handles for it, in most russian Mi-2's used for mounting external fuel tanks. In state of war, when needed, this fuel tanks can be easily taken off, and any arnament mounted on immidiately.<span id='postcolor'>

You're totally mistaken mr. Onn.

Transport Mi-2 is totally incompatible with URN, URP and US versions. Russians had only transport Mi-2's and Liaison Mi-2. No other version AFAIK.

Those version can be armed only with PKM mounted in the cargo bay.

Mi-2's external weapon systems are mounted to special hubs. Transport Mi-2 with fuel tanks doesn't have such hubs.

Other thing is that those armed versions has additional avionics such as PKW collimator sight, wire-guidance devices etc.

Those versions were not used anywhere else but Poland (and maybe Czechoslovakia).

[korzon 0]

I forgot:

Mi-2 T - Transport version with additional fuel tanks on sides and armed versions URN, URP, US are totally different constructions. Armed versions have stronghened construction to keep armament dedicated to different MI-2 types. Armament is not intercheangable between Mi-2 versions also with Mi-2T version. If you look at Mi-2 blueprints or photos you could easily see then fuel tanks are placed non symetrical and much higher then armament points

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (korzon @ Feb. 25 2003,16:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I forgot:

Mi-2 T - Transport version with additional fuel tanks on sides and armed versions URN, URP, US are totally different constructions. Armed versions have stronghened construction to keep armament dedicated to different MI-2 types. Armament is not intercheangable between Mi-2 versions also with Mi-2T version. If you look at Mi-2 blueprints or photos you could easily see then fuel tanks are placed non symetrical and much higher then armament points<span id='postcolor'>

Didn't AirwolfPL just say that?

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (korzon @ Feb. 25 2003,16:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First of all I compare the quality of nonfinished but released Mi-2 with nonfinished but not released Mi-2.

In my opinion AirwofPL Mi-2 is better textured.

Also without comparing I notified a lot of things needing rework. I will gather all of them and send in separate post.

Because of very "severe" stage of developpement in Mi-2 model I say then this is still alpha needing a lot of work.

I said clearly then this is not a scrap but early alpha.

Dont enter other meaning in my mouth. You could look int he topic and se what I posted.

External texture is good the rest needs rework - this is my feedback which you could find in my first message in this topic.

Have you even read my message?

I dont say then I dont like public testing - I commented only then model is in very early stage - whats wrong in it?

It isnt right?

Dont post me about "constructive critique" in sens of extase about "new beautyfull model"

I see what is wrong but modmaker know the best if he will change it and how to change it. I could only see errors and tell what is wrong. I dont know any other type of constructve critique in this case

I disagree also with the strategy of telling only good to addonmakers. If you could say only "geez, good job man" more probably is then he will release nonfinished model then he will correct anything - this is very human but in effect we have hunderst of nonfinished addons and small numer of ggod ones.

I think then this is demoralising

You have right to like those textures the same as I have right to see them as early alpha.

just compare:

AirwolfPL MI-2 screenshots were published on this board.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....4;st=10

AirwolfPL Mi-2 screens<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry about saying that you called it crap... but when you say a "severe" alpha I think you have a different definition then most people here. I would call some of Vit's unfinished addons for example rather "severe" alphas (like the civilian helicopter he made and released awhile back).

Aside from the missing nose texture I think the textures are just amazing on this Mi2.

I am very happy to be able to test this beta. I don't see anyone else complaining. Critiquing yes, complaining no. When I say constructive criticism, look at how others are critiquing it. When you say, "External texture is good the rest needs rework " that doesn't do an addon maker much good. Which parts inside exactly? Everything? I thought the interior looked quite nice myself, but I guess we just disagree there.

Someone else posted some good pics of some of the problems in this addon. That's the kind of thing that's alot more productive. At least use a little dipolomacy when you critique an addon instead of insisting it's an Alpha... by who's definition is it an Alpha? Yours? Mine? Argueing that starts to get silly.

At any rate, part of the problem may just be me misunderstanding your English, but that's not really anyone's fault... just something that can't be helped when you have a forum with people from all over the world.

Finally I never said to say "only good things" about an addon. Only to try to say critique problems with an addon followed by pointing out some of the good things about the addon.

But you are right, the model is incomplete. But I think it's safe to say that most of us still like it alot even if the weapon's loadout perhaps a little unrealistic... so's loading a full load of troops into a fully-armed Mi-24 Hind that can also hover. But I sure ain't complaining.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[korzon 0]

Thank you for understanding my point of view although it is different then yours.

Saying "External texture is good the rest needs rework" I haved in mind exactly what you understood - everything except external texture should be finished.

Apha is for me working model needing still a lot of work with sample textures, alpha versions etc

Beta is half finished model needing some touches in details, coding etc.

Discussed MI-2 is so severe then in my opinion this is still alpha stage. For calling the model "beta" is realy to early.

I wish all the best to my coleagues working with this model and I will provide more detailed feedback if they are interessted.

English is not my native languiage. I speak much better other languages but board language is english.

Maybe it was misunderstanding because of other meaning of same words but I dont see any reason to make so long discussion around ma statement then this model is "early alpha" and finishing it needs still a lot of work.

best regards

[Johann "onn" Bitsoenn 0]

"Thing about armed versions of Mi-2"

After the post of AirwolfPL, who - for me - is an specialist in subject of Mi-2 (as I deducate from his work, he is professionalist, he collects all info about subject), I've fall into very hard disbelieve to my sources (Bill Gunston's work about Mi-2). I made several calls, most of them brought nothing, but one person gave me enough information to feel fool :]

This person is an former worker of PZL Mielec, for me personally - uncle. He proofed Airwolf's words. I have then to apologise for speaking fool things while being not correctly informed, as I do now :]

However, what did I came to, this fact does not negate a probability of existance of an armed version of Mi-2 in soviet army. As I believe (only my thougts) russian army would have no problem to order PZL Mielec to produce an armed version for their needs in case of any conflict. But this is theory only... As conflict in OFP is :]

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (korzon @ Feb. 25 2003,16:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Because of very "severe" stage of developpement in Mi-2 model I say then this is still alpha needing a lot of work.<span id='postcolor'>

You are joking, right?

I've seen final releases that don't look as good as this Beta (or Alpha, if we believe you).

One would almost suspect you have a hidden agenda to criticise this addon - you a secret employee of airwolf mod?

[korzon 0]

I've seen final releases that don't look as good as this Beta (or Alpha, if we believe you).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yes... stop for a while and think about this.

A lot of addons much worse then Mi-2 was called by authors "final version".

You think then this is OK?

EOT

[OxPecker 0]

Let me simplify this for you -

There are good addons, and there are bad addons.

This is a good addon, and will no doubt be even better when the final release comes out.

Just curious, what addon making experience have you had that makes you qualified to decide what is beta or alpha? Can we see some examples of your work?

[korzon 0]

Just to finish this silly discussion about nothing:

This addon will be good if they will finish it. Now this is alpha of potentialy good addon.

1. Playing OFP is enough good experience to see if something is finished if not and how good it is.

2. I could compare with other addons and with also non-finished Airworf MI-2

3. I know Mi-2, I have seen a lot MI-2, a lot of photos, even blueprints (my friend's father work in Swidnik constructors team form 30 years)

You could ignore it. If so just tell me why you dont commented feedback of other people - they notified a lot of unfinished or problematic things in Mi-2 addon - look at first pages of this topic

If playing OPF is not enough to discuss about addon quality this board should be closed for people who are not addonmaker - this is what you suggest?

would you like let us know what is your experience? What addons you made, how deeply you know Mi-2?

Dont provoke me and let finish this useless discussion before moderator will do it.

[AirwolfPL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Johann "onn" Bitsoenn @ Feb. 26 2003,01:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Thing about armed versions of Mi-2"

(...)

However, what did I came to, this fact does not negate a probability of existance of an armed version of Mi-2 in soviet army. As I believe (only my thougts) russian army would have no problem to order PZL Mielec to produce an armed version for their needs in case of any conflict. But this is theory only... As conflict in OFP is :]<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think it would be necessary for them, because they had great number of much better combat choppers like Mi-24, Mi-8/17 and various armed Kamov helicopters. Mi-2's were assigned to soviet army as transport/liaison/sanitary (maybe) choppers...

Anyways - Mi-2 was mainly produced in Poland and exported to USSR (production of Mi-2 in the Mil's factories was marginal).

[AirwolfPL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 26 2003,01:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(...)

One would almost suspect you have a hidden agenda to criticise this addon - you a secret employee of airwolf mod?  <span id='postcolor'>

AIRWOLF MOD has nothing to do with Mi-2.

[Abrams 0]

New beta will be out on this week.

All reported bugs fixed, added glass inside, improved texturies inside and outside.

sounds will be added but now we are searching for real MI-2 sound.

if someone can provide it contact me vie mail: igor515@netvision.net.il

p.s. i think NO can think about adding animations for the door.

[Abrams 0]

and something else i would like to tell to korzon..

1. For what you need those custom animations with doors?

even if you will make all doors openable you will still use the action menu to get in the helicopter or other addon.

2. What are those MI-2 screens from link that you posted?

Just a screens. I dont see relise dates, features or other stuff.

I even didnt seen those screens on news on OFP fan sites.

Those screens looks like unfinished LWP Mod MI-2 project...

they did relised their unfinished version but it had no animations(there is no LWP as i know now)..

Maybe someone took that unfinished model and just added some animations? What a "hard work".

So untill we will not see any other MI-2`s relised i can tell you that "NO" MI-2 is first and succesfull relise of MI-2.

So stop putting our work down.

If you want to help us with suggestions and advices we will be glad but dont shout: This addon is bad, textures bad, no realism.

-Abrams

Public Realtions of NO Project.

[AirwolfPL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Abrams @ Feb. 26 2003,16:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(...)

2. What are those MI-2 screens from link that you posted?

Just a screens. I dont see relise dates, features or other stuff.

I even didnt seen those screens on news on OFP fan sites.

Those screens looks like unfinished LWP Mod MI-2 project...

they did relised their unfinished version but it had no animations(there is no LWP as i know now)..

Maybe someone took that unfinished model and just added some animations? What a "hard work".

So untill we will not see any other MI-2`s relised i can tell you that "NO" MI-2 is first and succesfull relise of MI-2.

So stop putting our work down.

If you want to help us with suggestions and advices we will be glad but dont shout: This addon is bad, textures bad, no realism.<span id='postcolor'>

* If you didn't saw those screens on OFP News Sites - I suppose you're not too long in the OFP community because those screenshots were released in August 2002.

* It IS unfinished LWP MOD's Mi-2. And Korzon is a chief of this MOD.

* No one took this model off and added animations, because it had animations from the begining.

* I think NO Mi-2 is just a preemptive release and it is bad (textures are nice - whole thing IS bad or at least - NOT successfull but it's alpha (I'm not convinced that releasing alpha/beta addons too public is a good idea). Anyways - we will see how it will look when the final version will be released)

[korzon 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Abrams @ Feb. 26 2003,15:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you want to help us with suggestions and advices we will be glad but dont shout: This addon is bad, textures bad, no realism.

-Abrams

Public Realtions of NO Project.<span id='postcolor'>

Please notify then you released not finished version.

None of Mi-2 was finally released.

Both are still developped.

The only difference then you make public testing, Airwolf PL not.

Both of us cannot compare the status - simply both addons are still non finished.

I compare the quality because I know AirwolfPL addon and I see the difference. On screens published on the board you could see some differences in model, cabine model and pilot pulpit texturing.

I trust then your model will be very good and I keep fingers crossed. As I promissed I will describe more detailed way whats wrong in my opinion. (I hope today evening CET)

I agree then my feedback was to short, I'm sorry.