Anyone hear the news?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Dec. 28 2002,23:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 28 2002,17:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if she's like most of the cloning experiments results ... she'll die or she won't even see the light of the sun<span id='postcolor'>

And that is probably why we should regulate and study it, not ban it so that small groups are tempted to experiment without the proper resources.<span id='postcolor'>

i agree

the research politic of today's governement is in some aspects and for some subjects as good for "good" scientists as the inquisition was

the world governments should finance serious studies on these subjects to avoid some clowns to play around with our genome and the integrity of the human specy

as for your religion question : i'm atheist and i believe in what i want

the christian church (and all the other major religions) became an institution because it found a really large support and masses of adepts , and the Raelian sect hasn't done anything of that

and as i said before , it's clasified as dangerous sect by the french authorities and several serious accusations of abuses on a financial (windles of all types) plan and the most important , sexual abuses on members , younger and older than 18 years old

[Tovarish 0]

I have to say i don't like the idea of cloning an entire human being. I can already smell the next lunatic who tries to create a Master Race coming, and if such an experiment is successful, the tools to do it will be available.

<span style='color:red'>*edit*</span> I think this will also lower the value of human life, which is already too low. Why care about people with disabilities if you can manufacture "perfect" citizens?

[Necromancer- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Dec. 29 2002,01:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>*edit*</span> I think this will also lower the value of human life, which is already too low. Why care about people with disabilities if you can manufacture "perfect" citizens?<span id='postcolor'>

well what are the flaws on "perfect citizens"??

I dont see any serious flaws in that, actually it would increase the value of human life.

In fact it would make the human race stronger.

Think of it, create humans who will need less of the planets resources (food, land and water).

Humans who are immune to any diseases. It will dramaticly increase the amount of workforce in country economies and dramaticly decrease the cost on ill people, because there are no ill people.

Mankind will be more productive.

Heck, I wouldn't really care less if i was born with geneticly enhanced abilities.

[Tovarish 0]

0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Necromancer- @ Dec. 29 2002,020)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Dec. 29 2002,01<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>*edit*</span> I think this will also lower the value of human life, which is already too low. Why care about people with disabilities if you can manufacture "perfect" citizens?<span id='postcolor'>

well what are the flaws on "perfect citizens"??

I dont see any serious flaws in that, actually it would increase the value of human life.

In fact it would make the human race stronger.

Think of it, create humans who will need less of the planets resources (food, land and water).

Humans who are immune to any diseases. It will dramaticly increase the amount of workforce in country economies and dramaticly decrease the cost on ill people, because there are no ill people.

Mankind will be more productive.

Heck, I wouldn't really care less if i was born with geneticly enhanced abilities.<span id='postcolor'>

Because something will always go wrong. There will always be those born with defects, no human creation has been free from flaws. And these unfortunate people I fear will be seen as sub-human. Same goes for those who decide that their offspring will be born the old fashioned way. I highly recommend you watch the movie Gattaca

<span style='color:red'>*edit*</span> And really,is there anyone you would trust with the ability to modify our very humanity? I don't think there is a power more absolute, and we all know what absolute power does. Some people mentioned Einstein here. Remember how much he came to regret his part in building the atomic bomb.

[Frisbee 0]

Note the quotation marks indicating sarcasm around perfect.

I believe he meant to just stress something else.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frisbee @ Dec. 29 2002,02:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Note the quotation marks indicating sarcasm around perfect.

I believe he meant to just stress something else.<span id='postcolor'>

That too. To a dictatorship, a perfect citizen may be someone who never questions authority. To a crazed warmonger, it may be the perfect soldier.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Exactly Tovarish. I wouldn't trust any government to clone people, not just people with corporate interests. Just because the government say's something is O.K., doesn't neccesarily mean we should do it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So they are completely different because governments reacted diffrently to both? <span id='postcolor'>

Just using an example, sheesh. Example, analogy, whatever. I'm too tired to check dictionary.com

If genetic engineering is so good, why do genetically modified plants and animals have to be kept separate from natural species of wildlife? Why? Because if the geneticly altered stuff cross breeded with a natural creature, it could fuck up the food chain. I remember watching something on the CBC about it. Environmentalists are worried about genetically modified fish escaping from fish-farms, and so on.

Basically, human experiments with cloning and modifying genes leaves too much to chance, why risk royally and irreversably fucking up nature just to 'better' our lives?

Tyler

[Renagade 0]

Why not ??

All the crappy jobs would be taken care by those best built to do it,it should also reduce crime.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">All the crappy jobs would be taken care by those best built to do it,it should also reduce crime.

<span id='postcolor'>

And once the might clones find out that they are suprior in strength or certain abilities they will wipe the ill masnkind of this planet and be dominant.

One more aspect:

A human is not the sum of it´s DNA. Even if you have two DNA´s that are 100 percent equal, both humans would be different. Mind is not defined by DNA. Humans are "sum of all experiences". So it´s unlikely you can reproduce a person.

Another point is that clones are human beiings with the rights a human has. So slaves or servants are not included. He will get a regular passport and has his free will. There is no point in cloning entire humans. If you want one running as a sparepart storage for your own body, he will have to agree with it. I doubt he would.

I also doubt the clone baby. The method used for a sheep can only basically transformed to human cloning, The process itself is very different and much more complicated. I doubt the truth of this weirdos.

Besides this regulations on international base have to be done. Again it´s the US that wont agree, but this is only a sidenote. Cloning alive human beings as a whole should be abolished. We can talk about parts and organs, but not complete alive human beings.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 29 2002,15:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A human is not the sum of it´s DNA. Even if you have two DNA´s that are 100 percent equal, both humans would be different. Mind is not defined by DNA. Humans are "sum of all experiences".<span id='postcolor'>

Having a clone is the same thing as having an identical twin just that the twin will be a different age.

Identical twins have the same DNA and they evolve to completely different individuals often looking different too when they reach an adult age. DNA is only a part of a human's evolution. The environment one grows up in is just as important both for the physical and psyhical development of an individual.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Dec. 29 2002,04:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If genetic engineering is so good, why do genetically modified plants and animals have to be kept separate from natural species of wildlife? Why? Because if the geneticly altered stuff cross breeded with a natural creature, it could fuck up the food chain. I remember watching something on the CBC about it. Environmentalists are worried about genetically modified fish escaping from fish-farms, and so on.<span id='postcolor'>

Well several points, I'll forget some before I finish writing.

Genetic engineering is one of the best tools we could have, and you don't want genetically engineered life forms to mix with nature because you can or can not predict the outcome, and often it is less than desirable. Like the mice in Australia, the dingo, warthogs, wabbits etc. (ever watch Steve Irwin, I admire that aussie)

We have a history of unbalancing the food chain, but our worst example of playing god carlessly are pets. Some specie of dogs and cats are barely able to survive day to day because of crazy breeding, and now so many of those animals are left to die in shelters and on the streets. Apalling. Animals that are made in our image, we cast away.

So what I am trying to say is, I'm for all kinds of genetic experimentation, including cloning, but under a good research environment where we do not create tragic results. Apparently there is more to DNA than peoploe currently know as many cloning experiments fail or reveal old age diseases at birth.

And so, environmentalists are worried about the fish escaping and mixing, well they should, and we should take care that it does not happen. The benefit of the modified fish may outweigh the negative of having to be vigilant about them not spreading.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 29 2002,09:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also doubt the clone baby. The method used for a sheep can only basically transformed to human cloning, The process itself is very different and much more complicated. I doubt the truth of this weirdos.<span id='postcolor'>

I watched an interview with their leader, of course dressed as some sort of god. It looks like.

He does not seem to know what he is talking about when he gets into the idea of transferring thoughts and creating immortality. Well, on a funny side

what if they had the woman have sex with her brother, and are hoping the DNA will pass as the same. Oops, there is a 6th toe.

[supersheep 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If genetic engineering is so good, why do genetically modified plants and animals have to be kept separate from natural species of wildlife? Why? Because if the geneticly altered stuff cross breeded with a natural creature, it could fuck up the food chain. I remember watching something on the CBC about it. Environmentalists are worried about genetically modified fish escaping from fish-farms, and so on.

<span id='postcolor'>

my emphasis. could is a possibility. anyways, people have already fucked up the food chain so bad in a lot of places that its probably not gonna make much difference. and so what if it does? by the year 2026 or so, china and india are probaly not gonna have enough food and water to support their populations. leaving aside the fact that nuclear powers with a lack of food might do anything, which would you rather; that the beautiful flower Snoodilyoopus Scarasaeum is extinct, or that millions of humans die?

i believe genetic engineering should be researched, but there should be controls, plenty of them, and government research should be placed ahead of private research as more important

[Bordoy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 29 2002,14:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 29 2002,15:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A human is not the sum of it´s DNA. Even if you have two DNA´s that are 100 percent equal, both humans would be different. Mind is not defined by DNA. Humans are "sum of all experiences".<span id='postcolor'>

Having a clone is the same thing as having an identical twin just that the twin will be a different age.

Identical twins have the same DNA and they evolve to completely different individuals often looking different too when they reach an adult age. DNA is only a part of a human's evolution. The environment one grows up in is just as important both for the physical and psyhical development of an individual.<span id='postcolor'>

Indentical twins are NATURAL, cloning isn't. Different dont you think.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bordoy @ Dec. 29 2002,18:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Indentical twins are NATURAL, cloning isn't. Different dont you think.<span id='postcolor'>

No, not at all if the result is the same. Why would it be?

[Renagade 0]

probably becuase the resuklts wouldn`t be the same in 99% of th time.

My legion of genetic soldiers wouldn`t revolt as they would be under strict conditions where the wouldn`t know anything else either that or at the first sign of trouble i would engineer an advanced chip to replace their brains with only the information required to do the job at hand leaving me ponder the unviverses infinite question

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I am surprised that some people have no morals at all. Sometimes creating life is worse than destroying it. I am sure those children will have sincere personality complexes once they get older. So sick!

[mr. Duck 0]

I still stay with this:

Cloning human = no (although this will be eventually done)

Cloning organ = yes

@ renagade: have you been watching episode 2 too much?

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Yea really sick stuff they are doing... It dosnt exactly make things better that its born into some UFO sect...

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And so, environmentalists are worried about the fish escaping and mixing, well they should, and we should take care that it does not happen. <span id='postcolor'>

Ever hear of an old guy named 'Murphy'?

[Necromancer- 0]

Tovarish, yes i've seen the film "Gattaca".

I believe it will be a "trend" to geneticly enhance embryo's.

Future parent 1: Hey, my baby will be a boy!

Future parent 2: Hey, my baby will be a girl!

Future parent 3: Hey, my baby will be both!

I do agree to geneticly enhance embryo's if the baby will inherit diseases from the family tree and enhance the capabilities.

There should be just strict rules on geneticly enhancing embryo's.

Humans stay Human, no matter you geneticly enhance embryo's or not.... the child stays human.

Just uhm... quotes i thought of.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Alright, that's it!

Which one of you sleazy mods changed my member title to "American Bacon"?

[red oct 2]

and WHATS wrong w/ american bacon?!

[Necromancer- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Dec. 30 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and WHATS wrong w/ american bacon?! <span id='postcolor'>

Because American hamburgers are better.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Dec. 30 2002,00:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Alright, that's it!

Which one of you sleazy mods changed my member title to "American Bacon"? <span id='postcolor'>

Ouch...That's a low blow