Anyone hear the news?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 28 2002,12:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I haven't seen anything so far.<span id='postcolor'>

I heard that somewhere.

EDIT: Okay, I think this discussion is excellent, that is until the source of the claim becomes the topic, who cares about that, you can still discuss the concepts even if the claim may be false. And it is not good conduct to call it a goofball cult, everyone believes in their own thing, let them as they let you.

EDIT2: You just never know who the real goofball is, so don't joke around that way, remember even Einstein was considered a goofball most of the time.

[FSPilot 0]

He has a point.

But until they come up with proof I wont be taking them seriously. I just don't trust their word.

As for the concept of cloning, I just don't think it's right. There's no reason for it to be used to create children, as adoption is a good alternative for those who simply cant conceive, everyone else can do it the natural way.

It's a very sick alternative for organ donation. Harvesting humans to take their organs, just not right. It'd make our values for human life go way down, and they're already pretty bad thanks to abortion.

[Bordoy 0]

IceFire and FSPilot i totally AGREE with you 2.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 28 2002,19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's a very sick alternative for organ donation.  Harvesting humans to take their organs, just not right.<span id='postcolor'>

It's not harvesting humans. You grow the organs in vitro. They already grow ears and noses at the Karolinska institute in Stockholm throguh stem cells. In short you grow the organ in a bowl, it's not in any way a human being.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Dec. 28 2002,19:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">EDIT2: You just never know who the real goofball is, so don't joke around that way, remember even Einstein was considered a goofball most of the time.  <span id='postcolor'>

the people responsible for that ARE real goofballs

their movement is considered as a sect in france

there have been some accusations of child abuses and other issues with its member's sexuality , there have been accusations of financial swindles etc , etc ...

Raęl or whatever is his real name outputs his bullshit since the 70's

what was originally a Hippy movement took a big width , too big at my taste and to the taste of the french authorities

i don't mind research about human cloning only if it's done by the authorities (even if i disagree in the principe of the cloning).... but by those sick people ........

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 28 2002,19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But until they come up with proof I wont be taking them seriously.  I just don't trust their word.<span id='postcolor'>

never trust people who claim that they've met extraterrestial intelligences

[VerySolidSnake 0]

ran i agree with you. How can you trust these people? Look what they have already claimed. They claim they have seen UFO's and Aliens, no one believes them. Now they claim they cloned a human, and everyone believes them? come on...

[ran 0]

the problem wit Raël and his sect is that they get way too much attention from the medias

and i'm sure that they want to get even more attention and even more adepts by making this huge promotional declatration or publicity operation

[ran 0]

http://www.rael.org/

ain't that a shame that some idiots and other simple minded people fall in his claws ?

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 29 2002,00:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's not harvesting humans. You grow the organs in vitro. They already grow ears and noses at the Karolinska institute in Stockholm throguh stem cells. In short you grow the organ in a bowl, it's not in any way a human being.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not talking about what the people at the Karolinska institute do, I'm talking about using cloning to make people, then using the people to make organs. Not something that's already being done, but something that could be done.

[KingBeast 0]

FSPilot, if you can clone specific organs or body parts, then why would you clone a working human so that you could take and use his specific organs/bodyparts. It would be less cost effective i would imagine

[Guest]

It has never been intended either. It is just a common misconception since the process is also called 'cloning'. Unfortunately ignorance and unmotivated fear is very common as it always has been with new revolutionary technology.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only situations that pop into my mind, where cloning humans would be useful, would be for various not nice things. ie growing an army, using cloned humans as medical test subjects, using clones as labourers, ie growing coal miners, factory workers, garbage men. All the jobs that people dont particularly want to volunteer for. <span id='postcolor'>

I see someone has read 'Brave New World', lol.

Why clone entire people at all? What real use would it serve?

I do have a problem with gene manipulation and modification. Crossbreeding is one thing, altering the genetic makeup of a creature in a lab to make it 'better' is another.

In other words, I agree with FS Pilot, and IceFire on this issue.

Denoir, comparing peoples early fears of train travel to people's fears of altering our genetic makeup is a very bad comparison. Not even remotely similar. Governments didn't ban train travel reasearch back then, but they ban cloning research today, in a much more liberal era.

Tyler

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 28 2002,20:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's not harvesting humans. You grow the organs in vitro. They already grow ears and noses at the Karolinska institute in Stockholm throguh stem cells.<span id='postcolor'>

/visions of Sleeper cross my mind

[Renagade 0]

Cloning ppl to do all the stinky jobs would be cool,u could like make them super stupid so they can only do the one job.

Myy latest attempts at cloning them have gone a little wrong

http://www.threebrain.com/daily.shtml?2_21_2002

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 28 2002,14:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 28 2002,19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But until they come up with proof I wont be taking them seriously. I just don't trust their word.<span id='postcolor'>

never trust people who claim that they've met extraterrestial intelligences<span id='postcolor'>

Well, like i said, I don't know jack about them...

Anyway, preists claim to talk to god, you trust them? How many times have you heard "the lord forgives you" etc... anyway, i'm not going to get into religion enymore here.

EDIT: I never said I trust them either, I'm saying that you should not label them as goofballs, because anyone who is religious could be called that from that logic.

[mr. Duck 0]

I'd rather have robots to do stupid jobs instead of cloned humans. I think it is way easier to do that.

And what's wrong with cloning an ear? I don't mind that. As long as you don't clone a whole human without a good reason.

[Renagade 0]

or u could say all religous types are goofballs

Why stop at cloning imagine all the fun u could have with genetic engineering

http://www.amazingfantasies.com/weird/images/freakshow.jpg

im looking foward to creating my troll with 20 heads and a club for an arm

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (mr. Duck @ Dec. 28 2002,22:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd rather have robots to do stupid jobs instead of cloned humans. I think it is way easier to do that.

And what's wrong with cloning an ear? I don't mind that. As long as you don't clone a whole human without a good reason.<span id='postcolor'>

good robots aren`t here yet are they i mean u can have breast implants lyposuction special ops to lengthen bones etc but u still dont get a decent robot arm if u lose ur own in an accident

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir, comparing peoples early fears of train travel to people's fears of altering our genetic makeup is a very bad comparison. Not even remotely similar. Governments didn't ban train travel reasearch back then, but they ban cloning research today, in a much more liberal era.<span id='postcolor'> So they are completely different because governments reacted diffrently to both? I am beginning to wonder what some members here think an example or analogy means...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do have a problem with gene manipulation and modification. Crossbreeding is one thing, altering the genetic makeup of a creature in a lab to make it 'better' is another.

<span id='postcolor'> What is the problem with it? Why are you people so afraid of it, why not jsut ask for regulation.

Oh heck, whats the point of trying to convince you when it will all take place anyway, no mattrer how hard you guys want to ban it all.

[FSPilot 0]

SOYLENT GREEN IS MADE OF PEOPLE!

PEOPLE I TELL YOU!!

WAAHHH!!!!

I guess if they don't do the whole harvesting human things it'd be ok. Generally whatever doesn't take away from the quality of human life..

[mr. Duck 0]

I didn't say anything about replacing organic tissue with non-organic ones. I was just mentioning about doing dull jobs being done by robots.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What is the problem with it? Why are you people so afraid of it, why not jsut ask for regulation.

<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly, what's wrong with it? Those regulations will eventually come.

[supersheep 0]

i wouldn't like to be this baby, that's for sure. even leaving aside the fact she's gonna be brought up in a [politically correctness\sarcasm]religious tradition of dubious veracity[end], she's gonna be held up to the whole world every second of her life. plus there's what happened to dolly. she started developing all these old sheep problems like arthritis, but she was way too young for this to happen normally. it was because the cells were from an older sheep. this means that this girl is probably only gonna live to be around forty.

my personal opinion is, creating new organs by cloning is a good thing. i would be against the creation of subhuman races by cloning, just so they could do menial jobs. "brave new world" is a world i wouldn't like to be part of. i am unconcerned on the subject of cloning, i don't believe it's wrong, but i would be concerned for those involved and those created. i'm not going to preach my ways to others, unlike some, and i certainly don't want research or anything banned, but it shouldn't be in the hands of business, cos business is irresponsible.

and why would someone want to clone people for to do "stinky" jobs, when they could make robots that would do it without needing to be fed... sure they need electricity and all that, but you can get more energy from a uranium mine and a power station than the same area covered in food producing fields

EDIT: added stuff on robots

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (supersheep @ Dec. 28 2002,22:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i wouldn't like to be this baby, that's for sure. even leaving aside the fact she's gonna be brought up in a [politically correctness\sarcasm]religious tradition of dubious veracity[end], she's gonna be held up to the whole world every second of her life. plus there's what happened to dolly. she started developing all these old sheep problems like arthritis, but she was way too young for this to happen normally. it was because the cells were from an older sheep. this means that this girl is probably only gonna live to be around forty.

my personal opinion is, creating new organs by cloning is a good thing. i would be against the creation of subhuman races by cloning, just so they could do menial jobs. "brave new world" is a world i wouldn't like to be part of. i am unconcerned on the subject of cloning, i don't believe it's wrong, but i would be concerned for those involved and those created. i'm not going to preach my ways to others, unlike some, and i certainly don't want research or anything banned, but it shouldn't be in the hands of business, cos business is irresponsible.

and why would someone want to clone people for to do "stinky" jobs, when they could make robots that would do it without needing to be fed... sure they need electricity and all that, but you can get more energy from a uranium mine and a power station than the same area covered in food producing fields

EDIT: added stuff on robots<span id='postcolor'>

if she's like most of the cloning experiments results ... she'll die or she won't even see the light of the sun

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 28 2002,17:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if she's like most of the cloning experiments results ... she'll die or she won't even see the light of the sun<span id='postcolor'>

And that is probably why we should regulate and study it, not ban it so that small groups are tempted to experiment without the proper resources.