LordJarhead 1725 Posted December 11, 2017 29 minutes ago, kavoven said: think 15 years ago the "content creation" community was much more active Probably yes. But also, the development of mods were rather easy or at least not as complicated as it is today. When I think about making sounds back in OFP or ArmA1 even, I could have just replaced sound files and it was done. Today you need to write your own little shades and soundsets and put everything in a clean configuration and all stuff leaves zero room for failure or it won't work, without any sort of message or report why it not working either in some cases... Today it's different. People don't want to spent days and nights looking on a computer screen anymore and that's fair enough. And the little time they have left to spend with this, they use for quick games. Games like Battlefield that doesn't require your whole evening to evolve their specific game goal and create immersion. You can go in, have fun 20 minutes and you leave. And when you're done you don't open the browser and tell people about your amazing gaming experience :D They watch YouTube or porn and go to bed. End of story hehe LJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Macser 776 Posted December 11, 2017 I don't find it depressing. Interesting maybe. I can see a definite shift more towards consuming rather than engaging in making connections. That element is still there I think, regardless of the age of the people on the boards. Or how long they've been here. It's just not as prevalent. And not everyone enjoys a typing session. I know I have my off days. But having said that, I think people are still interested in hanging out and talking with like-minded people. Just not as commonly in a forum format. Why? I don't know. I'm not all that interested in trends. If something works I use it. Old or new. But that's just me. The thought of being "left behind" doesn't bring on a panic attack. Now that I've typed all that, I realise I'm not exactly conversational myself most of the time. I'll usually chime in after someone else gets the ball rolling. I'm sure there's a lot of folks who feel the same way. Sometimes it's easier to say a few short words, or hit the like button, because you can't bring yourself to think a response through. But if everybody's doing that, things can get really quite in this kind of setting. Forum posting lends itself to longer replies with a little more thought in them. Usually.. But I think it's happening in general. Not just here. I see it in everyday life. An internet connection has become as integral as cell phones have. And yet I see people talking less despite the constant "connection". People, myself included, could barely say a word to each other over the course of a day. But if the wifi goes out there's blind panic as they realise they might have to actually talk to each other. Which they do.. At least until it's back up... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordJarhead 1725 Posted December 11, 2017 Yeah I’m not that conversational either, most of the time. It’s just when I have sort of an outbreak and I need to get my thoughts going and get things discussed with people. Most of the time I adapted to the forum standards, and that’s where I started to realize how things have changed. Back in the days I was used to spend much more time to respond to people, having real discussions and the topic and keep things going, never stopping the rolling ball so to say. Then things slowly changed and things went over to other ways of communication with the people, Discord for example. I think the whole word has changed, that’s a fact kind of, and the forum or at least the people around the forum, the community has changed. The world goes faster, we work more and more for less money, that’s how most people feel at least. Life gets expensive if you want to keep up with your friends or neighbors, there is more time or energy to invest into hobbies and things that take time to archive. To play games all day and night or whatever. You are exhausted, you spend hours on the highway trying to get through like everyone else while people send you message where you are, you are late! You come home try to relax and turn on TV so it can spread bad news and environmental disaster and terror attacks on you and your mind. Not sure if that’s the whole case, but I like to think that the world itself became different. The 90s are over, easy life is over. You have to keep trying to do your “best” to stay employed. Or at least that’s how things became in Germany, or that’s how I feel about it. People are connected all the time, yes, but somehow they are not. They follow strangers, like pictures of cats, listen to music that somebody else suggested. People want to fill their mind with happy things, make the bad news go away. They just follow trails of family members that posted something but they never really get into a conversation with them. I see this very often when it comes to a funeral, back example, but true: Everyone comes by and is crying about the loss, and then they start bullshitting like “We are a good family, we stay together, forever!” but a few days later they vanish and never talk to you again until the next person dies sorta... People want to stay tuned, they want to catch everything and never want to miss something. But they don’t want to get involved somehow, staying outside and rather watch what happens than actually having part in it. Yes, it is as you said, the power comes of, Wifi’s off, people get crazy! After minutes they feel like they missed a lifetime... but we made ourselves sort of dependent or addicted to it. We NEED it now... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roberthammer 582 Posted December 11, 2017 Playing OFP2 DR - yes , i am serious Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valken 622 Posted December 11, 2017 I'm only from the A2 days and one thing I noticed was the existence of Steam Workshop and forums, and DayZ SA, ARGO and ARMA 3. To me that fragmented the community because in A2, A1 and OpFOR, it was all one big community. TO series to a lesser extent. I am sure PUBG and discord and newer games would have additional affects but the ARMA community became splintered or specialize. I am sure I will be here for ARMA 4 but it only makes sense with the growth and expansion of the community. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmic10r 2331 Posted December 11, 2017 5 hours ago, LordJarhead said: Yeah I’m not that conversational either, most of the time. It’s just when I have sort of an outbreak and I need to get my thoughts going and get things discussed with people. Most of the time I adapted to the forum standards, and that’s where I started to realize how things have changed. Back in the days I was used to spend much more time to respond to people, having real discussions and the topic and keep things going, never stopping the rolling ball so to say. Then things slowly changed and things went over to other ways of communication with the people, Discord for example. I think the whole word has changed, that’s a fact kind of, and the forum or at least the people around the forum, the community has changed. The world goes faster, we work more and more for less money, that’s how most people feel at least. Life gets expensive if you want to keep up with your friends or neighbors, there is more time or energy to invest into hobbies and things that take time to archive. To play games all day and night or whatever. You are exhausted, you spend hours on the highway trying to get through like everyone else while people send you message where you are, you are late! You come home try to relax and turn on TV so it can spread bad news and environmental disaster and terror attacks on you and your mind. Not sure if that’s the whole case, but I like to think that the world itself became different. The 90s are over, easy life is over. You have to keep trying to do your “best” to stay employed. Or at least that’s how things became in Germany, or that’s how I feel about it. People are connected all the time, yes, but somehow they are not. They follow strangers, like pictures of cats, listen to music that somebody else suggested. People want to fill their mind with happy things, make the bad news go away. They just follow trails of family members that posted something but they never really get into a conversation with them. I see this very often when it comes to a funeral, back example, but true: Everyone comes by and is crying about the loss, and then they start bullshitting like “We are a good family, we stay together, forever!” but a few days later they vanish and never talk to you again until the next person dies sorta... People want to stay tuned, they want to catch everything and never want to miss something. But they don’t want to get involved somehow, staying outside and rather watch what happens than actually having part in it. Yes, it is as you said, the power comes of, Wifi’s off, people get crazy! After minutes they feel like they missed a lifetime... but we made ourselves sort of dependent or addicted to it. We NEED it now... The world has certainly changed but people haven't changed that much... in fact imo humans haven't changed much in our recorded history... if we had... I'm not sure we would be doing all the same things with better stuff... To your point tho, the influx of information, mostly negative, is overwhelming and I think it is having a negative effect on society as a whole. People don't talk to each other in person anymore... everything is done through impersonal 240 character statements. The values that made people good are getting blurred... Things are way too convenient... people have forgotten how to turn things off.. how to wait... how to go out in the world and not expect everything to be perfectly setup up for yourself... Arma holds a niche and in some ways is at a complexity to work with that it turns a lot of people off.. which is ok... life isn't supposed to be easy ;) 5 minutes ago, Valken said: I'm only from the A2 days and one thing I noticed was the existence of Steam Workshop and forums, and DayZ SA, ARGO and ARMA 3. To me that fragmented the community because in A2, A1 and OpFOR, it was all one big community. TO series to a lesser extent. I am sure PUBG and discord and newer games would have additional affects but the ARMA community became splintered or specialize. I am sure I will be here for ARMA 4 but it only makes sense with the growth and expansion of the community. I think Steam has a lot to do with it as well. It is so easy to maintain a group on there and you use it anyways so I wonder how many people have transitioned discussion there, where in A2 it was likely mostly here of TS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordJarhead 1725 Posted December 11, 2017 28 minutes ago, cosmic10r said: everything is done through impersonal 240 character statements Thanks Donald Trumpffff :P Yeah I know what you mean. Its a dark time somehow, even if we are not at World War but seriously, I have the feeling that even back then, not in the center of germany maybe, but even 1945 the world stood more together and shared more moments of being "human" and living together and having a conversation and all than we do today! I mean it might sounds idiotic, it maybe really does, but besides your friends and family, your colleagues or the mail man, WHO are you really talking to these days? I mean who are we talking to that we actually dont have to? NO ONE You say hello to the bus driver and sit next to a total stranger and try to not even LOOK at them. Eye contact is like absolute overkill and makes your heart rate shoot up. Being in an elevator people suffocate rather than loudly breathing or having a sneeze... and at ZERO CONDITIONS you are allowed to touch another human being, are you crazy??? This sort of behavior that kinda spread around the world makes the human kind sick sort of and makes it weak the same time! We are THE WEAKEST of our kind, today! Think about that just for second! We made ourselves dependent to an always working, never failing infrastructure... lets have a power failure for like .... 5 days or so... I'm not an expert at such things but I'm pretty sure there will be dead people all around the globe!!! And not by being killed or something... they poison themselves because they dont know how to cook meat and eat shit raw and die... Imagine there being no internet for 2 days... companies would be broke after that because the financial market went crazy! The stock market would drop unimaginable... machines would stop working because they lost contact to their servers. Nuclear power plants wouldn't be controllable for at least half their functions. I mean even more trivial, some time back Facebook was down for a couple of minutes... people went crazy! Even top-class new agencies reported about it like North Korea finally hit South Korea with a missile... http://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cb-News-Handy-Facebook-ist-down-19154525.html I mean maybe it was always a bit weird, the internet is certainly a think that connected the world and it is a good thing! No question, we need it. But in a top shelf survival situation we all, EVERYBODY, made himself vulnerable like a baby, except Bear Grylls maybe but you get the point. Well this went a little off-topic as my initial question was more about this forum, this community. Well, I think as Valken said, ArmA2 didn't made a step forward to ArmA3. Something happened and separated the community into ArmA, DayZ, Argo and maybe even many other sub categories that I don't know about. Because ArmA3, as it was announced and revealed, it was so... controversy? Is that the right word? It was ... out of the ordinary... special, new, something else... but maybe the wrong game for a community like the original ArmA2 community. Because they had something whole different in mind! We were having a debate about ArmA2 not being too realistic... it was not enough! And then.... boom, 2035... Nato... CSAT.... Greek... what the.. And I know a lot of people who left the community because of that decision from Bohemia... and I can understand it. As you said Valken, I can only hope ArmA4 is getting better and really catching up where people are stuck... back in the last days of ArmA2 when everything was about slow, thoughtful, tactical and immersive gameplay, when this whole niche thing was OUR thing. My honest opinion: Bohemia wanted to make money, but the ArmA2 community was never big enough because its a niche product. When they saw what can happen when DayZ as a mod came alive, they had a different point of view, and so they made a decision. So they made a game that in their opinion would catch way more people out there... and the kiddies and generation Xbox... all would come and pay. And they did^^ On the other hand, when we, as those who are real fans of OFP and ArmA1+2, want a game like that again, a real hardcore simulator, with proper PhysX that is working for vehicles like it should, for having graphics that support a great view distance and has room for detailed LODs so we identify realistically, having a decent sense for realistic wounds, REAL WEAPON SWAY AND RECOIL FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, real weapon mechanics and a loading and inventory system like lets say Escape From Tarkov, and all those sort of things that we can think of, do you not think that could be archived with a small community either? Seriously, look at Star Citizen, what a fuckload of work they promised, a game that sounded so far-fetched and exaggerated that most people didn't believe it and still.... they raised like what? Over 170.000.000 fucking USD!!! 173,386,415 it is exactly and don't tell me they didn't just started with a dream! They had nothing but a flying space ship in front of black space... and people went stupid and stuffed money into it. Not saying ArmA4 could be like Star Citizen... but damn, 1,937,544 spent 173,386,415 USD, thats around 90 Bugs per person... I'd be happy to spent 150 USD for a game of my dreams, just saying^^ And I'm sure there are thousand of others out there thinking the same... LJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmic10r 2331 Posted December 11, 2017 Ive done a lot of thinking on the internet... im not convinced we need it... it certainly could be argued that we have created the interdependence but it is still a construct... I remember a time where you were in a car and nobody could phone you... Imo thimgs havent changed much other then what society chooses to focus on... our values in the late 50s were different then know... i think life has been too easy for too long... makes us complacent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lenyoga 326 Posted December 11, 2017 I have always been the type to rather lurk in the shadows, which has been alright online but not so much offline - those people with their stakes and crossbows can be pretty annoying. Personally, I really have just two major phases in project-driven online communication - moderate communication with unhealthy levels of productivity and burnt-out lurking -, so the scope of my view on the topic is limited by that. But there are definitely some differences between interactions in let's say the good old OFPEC.com days and Arma 3 topics in the here and now. With the smaller groups such as the undying OFP section on here, the discussions are usually focused on the projects or issues at hand, where most people seem to realize that they are simply trying to play / mod a game that's almost old enough to drink the good stuff. In the Arma 3 sections, there's a lot more opportunity for interaction between modders and 'pure' players. And some of the latter strongly remind me of certain personality types I used to encounter in the bad old days of customer service, namely the angry middle-aged woman who wants to speak to the manager and the entitled SME executive who doesn't really seem bright enough to be an executive. Not sure if it's the reach the game has because of its popularity, or a certain culture among some gamers which makes them perceive modders as customer service representatives. All I know for sure is that I don't like it very much, and it might even discourage fruitful discussions or any sort of somewhat meaningful interaction. It truly is hard existing, with all their individuality, or whatever insipid, short-lived social construct is currently the governing instance of their self-perception and behavioral oddities... none of that could possibly elevate the rotting bag of meat they call a body above the perfection of the digital. That reminds me, I have to finish that other project. To be honest, I've also been pretty lazy since I've fallen into the bottomless pit known as Unity and replaying Dark Souls 2 (which caused a whole new set of mental disorders all on its own.) I will enter the next regeneration cycle around Christmas, maybe I'm useful again after that. And I haven't heard of Discord yet, although I am indeed a Discordian Pope - the most exalted one of them all, even - but personally I'm not really good with instant communication when it's about a somewhat complex project or topic. Anyway, that was my nine jumbled cents, and since I, as a general rule, never use more than 450 words a day, I will now end the comment right here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordJarhead 1725 Posted December 12, 2017 14 hours ago, Lenyoga said: To be honest, I've also been pretty lazy since I've fallen into the bottomless pit known as Unity and replaying Dark Souls 2 Oh I have these moments very often when I kinda archived everything I set in goal earlier. I make myselfs some goal for modding and when I get things done I either got something new on the way through or I'm there with no ideas and motivation... Then I drift away from ArmA and modding and focus on other things. Like other games. That's the period I go out in the steam store and buy all that shit I didn't when it came out and it's cheap now and I need something new. Like lately I got the new Mass Effect and thought it was pretty cool. So I spent like a week playing with that thing when ever I felt like it and left the community behind. That's also one of the times I realized that things have changed here, back in the days when you didn't gave responses people started asking for you... Today that rather demand you to answer and if you don't they start a discussion that we Modder are kinda like a company that should serve the customers and deal with their problems lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmic10r 2331 Posted December 12, 2017 9 hours ago, LordJarhead said: Oh I have these moments very often when I kinda archived everything I set in goal earlier. I make myselfs some goal for modding and when I get things done I either got something new on the way through or I'm there with no ideas and motivation... Then I drift away from ArmA and modding and focus on other things. Like other games. That's the period I go out in the steam store and buy all that shit I didn't when it came out and it's cheap now and I need something new. Like lately I got the new Mass Effect and thought it was pretty cool. So I spent like a week playing with that thing when ever I felt like it and left the community behind. That's also one of the times I realized that things have changed here, back in the days when you didn't gave responses people started asking for you... Today that rather demand you to answer and if you don't they start a discussion that we Modder are kinda like a company that should serve the customers and deal with their problems lol Lol.. just imagine if it got monetized... On one of the wikis i help with some guy gave me shit cuz i asked what wasnt working rather then going thru the whole wiki... and in the meantime i had found the error... So a day later i fix it after he asks and 6 days after that, he makes a BS comment without even checking on the field in question... Some people are just tools... i find with sharing creations you need to constantly remind yourself you are doing it for the nice 90% and not the 10% who seem to s#!t on everything they see ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warlord554 2065 Posted December 12, 2017 Generation X happened. Kids these days are spoiled with technology. In a time when even the best is obsolete the next year. They want it bigger, better, and they want it now. ARMA gets compared to console giants like COD almost daily, where the idea is to run and gun. Don't get me wrong it's entertaining for a while, but then you crave more and wait on the next run and gun release, and so on. This series was never intended for those game modes, it's open warfare. Allowing mission creators to dive deep into the life. It caters to fly boys and boot stoppers alike. I can remember how excited I was waiting for OFP. Like a kid on Xmas. I fell in love and have been faithful ever since. And that's the beauty of this game, it contains YEARS of enjoyment, if not a lifetime. No other sandbox can say that. The faithful community is getting older, and we treat it like a hobby, an artwork the same way a person building model cars would. Attention to detail, patient, committed to the project. Not so focused on the end result rather the journey along the way. There are many areas that BI could do better, but we play the cards we are dealt, and we enjoy the game, not who wins at the end. The world is speeding up, and it's new generation knows nothing else. Some vets still remain, but quietly in the background actually enjoying this series instead of complaining about it's flaws and what we don't get End of rant 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krycek 349 Posted December 13, 2017 Ahem...still here. Although not a heavy poster this is honestly the only "old" forum that I still visit. Besides I made a sacred vow to keep reminding the devs about AI driving bugs so if one day I disappear it's because BI finally fed up and hired assassins or some spetsnaz. I plan to do this even when all of us are old, cyborgs or old cyborgs (when Arma 9 gets released I should get a paper medal or something for my service). Tbh I'm glad to see familiar names still posting even these days although I wonder what happened with people like Jerry Hopper, AvonLady and many others. In Internet age it's like we're sumerians. Oh and: Nogovian for life! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Macser 776 Posted December 13, 2017 I don't know the folks you mentioned personally. Although their names are very familiar . I've been toying with this series before addons and mods were even a thing. Although I only joined up in 2007. But I do know a few people who used to inhabit the boards at it's height. Names you'd recognise if you've been around long enough. Like with most folks their reasons for posting less, or even signing in, aren't all that spectacular. They either got bored with it or don't have the time because of other commitments like work and family. Or a combination of the two. By the time A2 rolled around they were losing interest anyway. Not necessarily because they didn't like the direction the series is heading. They just weren't into it. Plain and simple. The increased workflow needed to achieve something presentable, added on a lot of time to the process too. So that might be a factor. I know we can chat about pretty much anything on this end of the boards. But I've always thought of this place as a modders hangout. And I think most of the people I know, or have known, see it in the same light. I don't mess around with A3, but I still like to keep an eye on what's happening. And maybe even lend a hand if it's something within my area of knowledge. Because that's why I signed up, and that's what's kept me hooked all these years. Even if I'd work a long day, and I'm physically worn out, I'd still find some space for a quick mod session. I wouldn't be a heavy poster though. Usually I'll only jump in to answer a question. If it goes further I'm happy to keep it rolling. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordJarhead 1725 Posted December 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Macser said: I'd still find some space for a quick mod session Same here, but I believe that it is more of my personal relax therapy that I need to calm down. Because I can forget time, trump, ISIS, money, health or job or what ever is bothering me, because I'm "busy". I mod, I'm not playing, so I need my mind and thoughts to concentrate and focus on it, otherwise I couldn't create something. A game where I only need to hold a button down and aim for something that's moving, that's not really relaxing of any sort... But being creative, creating something that's worth sharing, and having a thought like "I did something today, I created something" makes me more happy than playing stupid games for endless hours and ask myself where the time went... 8 hours ago, krycek said: In Internet age it's like we're sumerians. Hehe yeah thats right. I kinda feel like an old timer sometimes just to see there are people that "serve" these forums for way longer, so I'm kinda like the new generation kiddy I'm so furious about hehe LJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted December 20, 2017 I am from time time logging, but due to working (too much work, not enough money from 1 job, need to keep 2 jobs) I don't mod to Arma (despite I am making models still but to other "game" or "for myself"), but from "old members" I am still from time to time, but rather on "real rifle" than on virtual one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
