Arma 3 Third-Party DLC Pitch Discussion

[PuFu 4600]

18 hours ago, Valken said:

I was under the assumption that if the proposal was justified, BIS would support it like Orange or Jet DLC? Those were NOT pure professional teams to start with? And look at RHS as that is near professional already!

 

That is the content developers would create most of the assets in their own time, yet BIS would polish it up, add scripting and engine support, then payout based on sales.

 

BIS can even "fund" it partially based on preorders alone to seed the projects?

 

I mean I (and guess many) would pay right now for an official female DLC with VSM quality matched gear integrated with full engine support alone!

nope, that is the wrong assumption - as far as i understand it, BI wants to pull out their own resources (people) from Arma, minus the bare minim support...that means 99.9% of the work for such a 3rd party DLC would need to be done by the 3rd party, all by itself (finished assets, scripting, configs, full use of the existing engine). That means no engine improvements either.

 

I am also pretty sure such an endeavor is put in place to reduce direct end of lifetime support for A3 and relieve their pay-role developers - which means the 3rd party developer will get a cut out of the sales made, there won't be any (or if any, minimum) investment upfront from BI.

 

While the above is speculation at this point, that is precisely how i read it. That means, for all intents and purposes, the only viable DLCs are the ones that are content oriented, content that is plausible/possible within the existing framework, not outside of it.

 

I would keep my expectations down to earth if i were you

 

18 hours ago, Valken said:

I think the easiest way to get consideration would be to propose a multi-part package because it be done in stages with escalating content and payout, and if time or resource bound, it can be scaled back or can be split up among multiple groups yet still motivate the design group(s) to achieve something.

 

Example = A FEMALE asset and content DLC pack! 

just to reply on your example - a proper female (different size) would need either full rework of the engine - unlikely to happen at this stage, or an entire new set of ALL animations - just as unlikely for any 3rd party to be able to do it - mocap studio needed...

 

[armored_sheep 56]

15 hours ago, Valken said:

I was under the assumption that if the proposal was justified, BIS would support it like Orange or Jet DLC? Those were NOT pure professional teams to start with? And look at RHS as that is near professional already!

 

That is the content developers would create most of the assets in their own time, yet BIS would polish it up, add scripting and engine support, then payout based on sales.

 

BIS can even "fund" it partially based on preorders alone to seed the projects?

That is not true. BI is willing to be only publisher for 3rd party that can deliver the complete package this time. 

[armored_sheep 56]

On 9. 11. 2017 at 11:26 AM, eh chaser said:

Is it just an addon like RHS or is it stuff like a single vehicle or is it terrains aswell?

And in terms of Terrains, what about the assets? I think most terrain makers are using CUP objects atm. I think it will not be possible to release some kind of premium dlc with the usage of a free object depency, right?

3rd party must own licence to use and sell all the content of the DLC (data inside the new addons pbo files). Also data from already released BI addons can be linked to new terrain (i.e. structures, vegetation...)

[armored_sheep 56]

On 12. 11. 2017 at 6:21 PM, Delta Hawk said:

1) Would an independent content developer get access to special references like how to make ArmA cloth? 

2) legitimate encryption tools? 

3) Would BIS legal department help developers with copyright infringement claims? 

4) What is the time period you expect to have content pushed out?  Would you be looking at developers creating something to get pushed out to Steam in a month?  Year?  Or even two years?

1) Example models for character model are already public. Animated flag is old legacy technology. Other than that there is no cloth simulation.

2) 3rd party will get tools for mastering

3) 3rd party must be sure that it has licence for all DLC content (signed contracts with all contributors). BI legal department will work on the contract between publisher and 3rd party.

4) There is no deadline. DLC development can take many months.

[Valken 622]

5 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

That is not true. BI is willing to be only publisher for 3rd party that can deliver the complete package this time. 

 

Your response is WAY better than the initial invitation since it is super clear without a full wall of text! :D

 

So that means DLC work would mostly be relegated to models, skins, campaigns and maps with assets realistically than actual full blown gameplay mods given how the modders still claim of bugs and etc... At least this sets a more realistic expectation.

 

18 hours ago, PuFu said:

just to reply on your example - a proper female (different size) would need either full rework of the engine - unlikely to happen at this stage, or an entire new set of ALL animations - just as unlikely for any 3rd party to be able to do it - mocap studio needed...

 

 

Good to know. I rather my previous ideas be put forth to ARMA 4 than wasted in ARMA 3 since its paid attempts will still look and feel like mods without the full game engine support.The map idea might still be feasible with building content but the lead time would probably push the actual release right up there with the next Fusion engine powered game (ARMA 4) anyways.

[POLPOX 778]

Hey, what about localization of Third-Party DLC? Same as all official contents?

[armored_sheep 56]

45 minutes ago, POLPOX said:

Hey, what about localization of Third-Party DLC? Same as all official contents?

3rd party should be responsible for localisation. BI does not expect that 3rd party DLC will be localised to all languages currently available in Arma 3. Available languages for the DLC should be visible in Steam shop.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I suppose that could easily be done by the modding team by contacting community members from various countries. That's what was done for Take on Mars.

[lexx 1385]

Certainly not "easily", but yeah, if that doesn't give any issues with the contract, that seems like a viable option. You gotta keep in mind, though, that (in the end) you might get a badly translated addon.

[ProfTournesol 956]

12 minutes ago, lexx said:

Certainly not "easily", but yeah, if that doesn't give any issues with the contract, that seems like a viable option. You gotta keep in mind, though, that (in the end) you might get a badly translated addon.

 

Yeah, you love to be nitpicky but i took part of the TOM translation, and it was about translating a whole game with a lot of scientific references, not only a few things like in a DLC. So yes, i think translating a DLC should be farely easy.

[lexx 1385]

Then they did a good catch, which is great! In my experience (also with other projects, which were usually somewhat text heavy), it's really hard to find folks willing to translate bigger amount of texts in the first place. Of course, it is probably a hell of a lot easier to translate "smaller" addons that only provide weapons, vehicles, etc. I wouldn't worry much about them.

 

PS: I think it's a valid question. If you outsource your translation to community folks... do they have to sign something as well? I have no idea about this kind of stuff.

[blindside 24]

I think a fantastic idea for an additional singleplayer campaign would be some sort of Diplomatic Relations missions where you play as a representative of either FIA, NATO, CSAT, or AAF. Main premise of the story is you sitting in a meeting with other representatives of each faction discussing topics, and the player makes choices based on the dialogue on what to say. Certain topics can be involving conflicts that occurred during the war including war crimes or whatever, and the player can provide input regarding their represented faction. When a topic involving a conflict, individuals, specific events, or battles is taking place, it will become a playable mission and change based on the player's dialogue choices and responses during the talks. 

 

So say for example there is a discussion about a battle occurring in the town of Athira, but the topic is about some war crimes committed or questionable acts, or even just the representatives trying to get facts and information. Each faction could give their own opinion or ask questions. If you are a representative of the FIA, then say the AAF representative will be accusing the FIA of being the cause for high civilian casualties in the area whilst you can choose to blame the AAF and/or CSAT, or agree to the statement and continue on. If the blame is chosen upon the AAF or CSAT then the dialogue will cut and fade to the event being discussed, where you play as the FIA in question and experience the events as they actually happened, showing how the AAF/CSAT did infact lead to the death of civilians in Athira as a normal playable mission. If the statement was agreed upon by the FIA representative speaker, then the mission will be different in that it will show how the FIA was responsible for the deaths of the civilians. So based upon the player's choices during the talks, the missions change  and expands the dialogue. This could be a highly replayable campaign in that the player has the ability to change the story and missions based on their choice of dialogue. Somebody make it happen and take my money.

[Ezcoo 47]

On 10.11.2017 at 9:24 PM, ezcoo said:

What content should DLC include? Is a pure gamemode (ie. mission) enough for DLC (given that it's high quality enough) or does the DLC have to include assets as well?

1

 

Any input on this?

[Delta Hawk 1829]

7 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

1) Example models for character model are already public. Animated flag is old legacy technology. Other than that there is no cloth simulation.

????  I don't mean to go off on a tangent, but this simply can't be true.  In the games prior a flag just sat there waving.  Wind speed or direction didn't affect it since the previous games didn't have wind speed or direction afaik.  In ArmA3 the flag and windsock both react dynamically depending on wind speed and direction, and movement of the flag like attaching it to a vehicle and driving around with it.  Also in the arma 3 config files it has a cloth simulation class.  The flag model also isn't included in the sample models for A3.

 

Either ArmA 3 has dynamic, real time reacting cloth or I'm going insane.

 

7 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

3) 3rd party must be sure that it has licence for all DLC content (signed contracts with all contributors). BI legal department will work on the contract between publisher and 3rd party.

 

I meant in the situation where someone else steals our content and reuploads for ArmA or another game.

[blindside 24]

7 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

????  I don't mean to go off on a tangent, but this simply can't be true.  In the games prior a flag just sat there waving.  Wind speed or direction didn't affect it since the previous games didn't have wind speed or direction afaik.  In ArmA3 the flag and windsock both react dynamically depending on wind speed and direction, and movement of the flag like attaching it to a vehicle and driving around with it.  Also in the arma 3 config files it has a cloth simulation class.  The flag model also isn't included in the sample models for A3.

Flag cloth physics have been affected by wind speed and direction since Operation: Flashpoint (ArmA: Cold War Assault). It's been a thing in every arma game.

[Wiki 1558]

Another question is also who would set the price of the dlc?

And how would we buy it? Steam? BiS store? Something else?

[M. Glade 524]

4 minutes ago, wiki said:

Another question is also who would set the price of the dlc?

And how would we buy it? Steam? BiS store? Something else?

 

I'm pretty sure its been answered on the first, developers set the price but there must be some discussion with BI to make it realistic. Probably Steam.

[Laqueesha 474]

5 hours ago, blindside said:

Flag cloth physics have been affected by wind speed and direction since Operation: Flashpoint (ArmA: Cold War Assault). It's been a thing in every arma game.

 

The actual flag's waving animation leaves a lot to be desired, though. Looks so stiff and awkward; they could improve it a bit.

[blindside 24]

1 hour ago, Laqueesha said:

 

The actual flag's waving animation leaves a lot to be desired, though. Looks so stiff and awkward; they could improve it a bit.

I Arma 3? or which game? I think it's fine for what it is and is not a priority. Theres not reason to bother improving flag cloth physics.

[armored_sheep 56]

16 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

I meant in the situation where someone else steals our content and reuploads for ArmA or another game.

As soon as 3rd party creation is published by BI, BI legal and publishing departments will respond.

[armored_sheep 56]

8 hours ago, wiki said:

Another question is also who would set the price of the dlc?

And how would we buy it? Steam? BiS store? Something else?

3rd party DLC will be available same way as already released BI DLC´s and will be labeled as "3rd party" creation (that it was not developed by BI).  The price will be individualy negotiated depending on the perticular concept and prototype data.

[blindside 24]

Will the 3rd party DLC recieve help and support from BI dev teams or will it be 100% developed by third party?

[armored_sheep 56]

20 minutes ago, blindside said:

Will the 3rd party DLC recieve help and support from BI dev teams or will it be 100% developed by third party?

BI should be only publisher. There will be no developers available for this effort on BI side.

[Rich_R 1087]

3 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

As soon as 3rd party creation is published by BI, BI legal and publishing departments will respond.

 

This could be a huge selling point for modders!

[Delta Hawk 1829]

4 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

As soon as 3rd party creation is published by BI, BI legal and publishing departments will respond.

 

1 hour ago, Rich_R said:

This could be a huge selling point for modders!

 

Bingo.  BIS has a bigger legal hammer than we do ;) 

 

3 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

BI should be only publisher. There will be no developers available for this effort on BI side.

So I take it if BI has a MOCAP studio we won't be able to get you all to do some mocap even if it's just a few complex animations?