Armaholic, how did this pass under your radar?

[ineptaphid 6413]

Just now, HeroesandvillainsOS said:

Or how about this, what about someone pinging a developer? Surly they have some authority here or am I wrong on that? @ineptaphid ? Thoughts?

Well not really, no .Armaholic is a private website-it is not affiliated with BI or with this forum  in any way. People are simply discussing it here, as it is something in our community ,and this is the place people gather for such conversations.

[haleks 8212]

6 minutes ago, soolie said:

If they want to take it down they can.  In doing so they will surely be setting a precedent. Now if a mission maker responsibly shows civs dying(as they do in conflicts), and someone finds it offensive, what then? It's now Armaholics or BI's responsibility to set a standard?

 

https://www.bistudio.com/community/game-content-usage-rules

Go to "Are there any limits?"

 

Quote

Please don’t use our Game Content to create obscene, hateful, offensive, racist content (this includes against living or historically significant persons and religions or communities). What we decide is unacceptable in this area goes. If you’re not sure something is ok it probably isn’t, but if in doubt check with us.

 

I don't know for you, but I would say that this classifies as "obscene"...

[nesias 16]

3 minutes ago, dedmen said:

He is on Arma Discord. And was already flagged for misbehavior. And reading his last posts.. He's not trolling. That's how he really is.

Oh boy... sounds like he is a real "nice" guy.

[ineptaphid 6413]

Regardless-like I said. BI have no power to remove something from Armaholic-it is totally separate. They can remove this stuff from steam.

[haleks 8212]

I reckon Valve took care of that already.

[ineptaphid 6413]

I'll PM Foxhound anyway. I think he made it so that people can upload their own stuff to Armaholic, so it may simply be that he is not aware of this

[Dedmen 2691]

1 minute ago, haleks said:

I reckon Valve took care of that already.

BI already took it off when it was uploaded about a week ago.

[road runner 4344]

You guys do know that Bohemia have no control over Armaholic right? It's only connection is that foxhound who manages it also frequents here.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

1 minute ago, road runner said:

You guys do know that Bohemia have no control over Armaholic right? It's only connection is that foxhound who manages it also frequents here.

Right I know. I just assumed they had authority to manage how players utilize their IP, regardless of where the content was posted. 

[ineptaphid 6413]

1 minute ago, road runner said:

You guys do know that Bohemia have no control over Armaholic right? It's only connection is that foxhound who manages it also frequents here.

Exactly-that's what i have been trying to get across. Regardless, I have PM'd Foxhound, so hopefully he will be aware of it soon.

 

Stuff like this is just an inevitable part of any online community-there are always some idiots ruining it for others. Best thing to do is simply ignore them.

[haleks 8212]

22 minutes ago, road runner said:

You guys do know that Bohemia have no control over Armaholic right? It's only connection is that foxhound who manages it also frequents here.

 

Yes, obviously. But that doesn't only concern Armaholic though (it was uploaded on the WS, and could be uploaded elsewhere anyways).

This could potentially affect the community as a whole, and in any case, it doesn't hurt to discuss it when someone crosses the line.

 

Raising awareness on this is preferable than remaining silent IMO.

[road runner 4344]

1 minute ago, HeroesandvillainsOS said:

Right I know. I just assumed they had authority to manage how players utilize their IP, regardless of where the content was posted. 

I would not be going down that road mate to be honest, as it would mean the end of the OPFOR addons that have such factions as IS/ISIL/Shia militias etc, as every single one of them have committed atrocities.

There's already people getting their pants in a twist over Iron Front, where you can play as Germans, killing Americans... at what point within the gaming, and ARMA world do you stop representing countries as the enemy, where we're not at war with? .

I have worked with the Chinese, have gone to China, and conducted business on behalf of my company with Chinese clients, am I supposed to be grateful that someone has decided to use the Chinese as OPFOR, having been there, and met the people, and found them to be more courteous and respectful than a LOT of European NATO countries I've been to?

I've also been to Iran, same deal there, some of the nicest clients I've had have been Persian, does it bother me that there's "games" portraying them, and the Chinese as bad guys....constantly? No not really, if it bothers me that much, just like people I find to be complete cockwombles, I hit the "ignore" button, it's amazing the amount of stress and hyper action it relieves

This guy in question, amongst many others on steam are just thundercunts, but I just ignore them, and their stupidity and lack of class, and morality.

[FireWalker 329]

@road runner

 

I agree, and I am trying to stay neutrally objective on the issue.  But I am worried that it looks poorly on us as a community and BIS as a developer.  People sometimes perceive the worst, then group all in the same basket.

 

Fire

 

(Its excruciatingly poor taste though)

[Dedmen 2691]

1 hour ago, ProfTournesol said:

Come on mate, stop the drama queen and wait for Foxhound to reply.

He has seen it and did nothing. See Recent Visitors:

 

From the names there I know Tajin and Jman. And I know Jman just checked his profile a couple minutes ago. And Tajin found the upload an hour ago.
So Foxhound has seen that post and then proceeded to view his profile. And he did nothing.

This is speculation.. Could ofcause be that foxhoud by pure random change visited his profile in the last hour and didn't check what he uploaded.

[Tobur 37]

13 minutes ago, road runner said:

There's already people getting their pants in a twist over Iron Front, where you can play as Germans, killing Americans... at what point within the gaming, and ARMA world do you stop representing countries as the enemy, where we're not at war with?

Right, but this is about martial conflicts or assymetric warfare and has to be discussed somewhere else. We are discussing the recreation (and obsession) about mass murdering everyday-people 

[haleks 8212]

11 minutes ago, road runner said:

I would not be going down that road mate to be honest, as it would mean the end of the OPFOR addons that have such factions as IS/ISIL/Shia militias etc, as every single one of them have committed atrocities.

There's already people getting their pants in a twist over Iron Front, where you can play as Germans, killing Americans... at what point within the gaming, and ARMA world do you stop representing countries as the enemy, where we're not at war with?

 

Those are murky waters indeed, but I would argue that in most WW2 games, regardless the country you are representing, events remain fictionalized - the few exceptions (Medal of Honor...) were poorly received. Not to mention that this era is very well documented nowadays, I wouldn't worry too much for Iron Front. ^^

 

I'm 100% with BI and their fictional wars; eventhough it is sort of a SIM, Arma is a game and as such should stay away from politics - that goes for modding too. It doesn't bring anything good or fun bringing in real life into Arma, let's not speak of tragedies such as mass shootings...

[ineptaphid 6413]

4 minutes ago, dedmen said:

So Foxhound has seen that post and then proceeded to view his profile. And he did nothing.

This is speculation.. Could ofcause be that foxhoud by pure random change visited his profile in the last hour and didn't check what he uploaded.

As you said-it is speculation. I have spoken to Foxhound about it and he has responded to me on the issue. He has been in touch with the person who uploaded the mission

 

This thread is  going offtopic and becoming a bit vague in it's aims..Issue has been reported to all those necessary, so we'll just wait and see.

[Belbo 462]

You can't compare replaying a mass shooting like the Las Vegas incident with replaying situations from armed conflicts.

Armed conflicts are full of ambiquity and replaying situations in which innocent people were killed usually serves a purpose or portray the situation in a way that something can be taken from this experience.

Comparing this mission to other missions in Arma is like comparing playing Castle Wolfenstein to recreating working as a guard in a concentration camp.

It's that No-Russian-thing all over again: As soon as something doesn't serve a purpose aside from glorifying the violence or satisfy some weird fetish for the suffering of others, you have to draw the line.

 

This mission is not a satire (which I wouldn't be as opposed against - even though I can't find a way to satire such an event itself) or a kathartic study of the human condition: It's murder porn. It's murder porn that kicks the victims in the shin without being justified in any way.

[das attorney 858]

40 minutes ago, road runner said:

thundercunts

 

That's a great word - I'm going to try and use that in conversation this weekend  xD

 

Ontopic.  Idk - The way I see it, isis et all are fair game for a military combat game as they have guns themselves.  Some dudes at a gig don't so that is the difference for me.

 

Anyway, I don't think it matters really as it's some soppy idiots idea of fun, but if megatwats like the Daily Mail get wind of it, then it reflects badly on BI (even if it shouldn't - Daily Mail won't see it that way).

[biggerdave 56]

The obvious solution would be for content creators to get together and demand Armaholic remove their work from the site unless something is done.

[Tajin 349]

Said it on armaholic and I'll gladly say it here too.:

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Give them some time to react and don't stir up more trouble than necessary.

 

 

Yes foxhound has apparently seen it and we could only speculate what is going on right now or why.

 

I agree completely that this is a very unfortunate thing and I certainly wouldn't want to have controversial crap like that on any site I'm responsible for.

However, armaholic is privately run and not some corporate level site that is beeing moderated 24/7, so don't expect their reactions to be equally fast.

[semiconductor 309]

The mission is indecent but this thread is mostly virtue signaling coming from people who got offended on behalf of victims whom they probably don't even know personally.

[road runner 4344]

1 hour ago, tobur said:

Right, but this is about martial conflicts or assymetric warfare and has to be discussed somewhere else. We are discussing the recreation (and obsession) about mass murdering everyday-people 

Where have you been for the past 2 years whilst the Islamic State lined up HUNDREDS of Iraq and Syrian Soliders and policemen and executed them... DAILY!!

You have a prolific poster who constantly posts pictures which would be deemed illegal, under the Laws of Armed Conflict, where the majority of the pictures represents Americans as the aggressors, and he gets lots of likes from this very fucking community that's up in arms about a psychopath who killed 59 people in one venue, and lets not start kidding ourselves on here, the conspiracy theories on this particular nasty occasion is riddled with false reporting, false claims etc etc ... but lets not go down that road.

There's no difference when it comes to morality, either you accept that it happens across the globe, and don't care as it's not in your neck of the woods, or you suffer from "selective morality issues"

I personally find the idea of shooting civilians recreating the Las Vegas shooter to be in extremely bad taste, but no less than seeing American soldiers being depicted as cold blooded killers, where those pictures gets serious amounts of likes.....from this very community that's up in arms over this addon, hosted on a site that has zero affiliation or ties to Bohemia. 

If foxhound choses to do nothing, as the host of that site, there's not much else anyone can do but ignore the addon/mission, and worry about what tomorrow may bring.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

ostracizing works, no need to start slinging around bans. Steam Workshop and Armaholic also don't need to be hosting it, it is their platform.

 

I would ask the mission maker whether he's learned his lesson from the response here. Likely he has and we can all go back to whatever we were doing before.

[Belbo 462]

32 minutes ago, semiconductor said:

The mission is indecent but this thread is mostly virtue signaling coming from people who got offended on behalf of victims whom they probably don't even know personally.

I just love how the accusation of virtue signalling is thrown around as soon as someone speaks up about a moral issue.

This has nothing to do with virtue signalling - and quite honestly the accusation is simply a way to terminate any discussion. It's like Godwin's law, just the other way 'round: If you discuss moral issues and you're immediately confronted with the allegation of virtue signalling, what can your response be besides of not partaking in the discussion if you're heavily opposed against the subject matter?

The intent of this thread, the reporting of the content and the statements in the upload's comments is generally not to be on the we-are-better-train, but to get this atrocity taken down. That is not virtue signalling.

 

Aside of that: I don't have to be personally affected by something to speak up against it. If that were the case, why should anyone care for any problems besides his own? You should not have to know any of the victims or be related in any way to the persons involved to the Las Vegas Shooting to know that this mission is an affront against decency.