Fixed Wing Flight Model (dev branch)

[oukej 2911]

But is it possible to bind two buttons of a joystick to make an action ? (such as button 6 + 5 to remove brake)

Not currently, but it is a widely requested feature. (Possibility to map any combination or map different modifier keys)

Can't promise anything as for now.

[EricJ 761]

Thanks oukej, that solved the issue of course... but tha's a great idea fixing the throttle issue, thanks.

---------- Post added at 16:34 ---------- Previous post was at 16:18 ----------

The issue is actually worse than you might think.

What you're "supposed" to do is map the throttle-up axis to "Thrust (analog)" and the throttle-down to "Brake (analog)". It expects the throttle, when lowered to 0%, to be used to trigger the brakes and slow the aircraft down.

It's really messed up, it means that the aircraft essentially cannot truly glide or idle which is insanely annoying. To be perfectly honest, it's no better than Battlefield's jets. I hate to say that, but there's no denying it. I really really hope we eventually see FixedWingLib get added, even if it's long after the expansion pack (hopefully we'll see more DLCs after that).

Yep I like that in DCS where you can do that instead of constant throttle when you're landing, or so on. but as oukej said they may actually make the flight model like most other sims, which is a good thing. Now if they made bigger terrains... I'd still fly DCS but then again A3 has better opportunities and flexibility.

And the thrust mapping did the trick, took a quick spin and much happier :)

[EricJ 761]

oukej, doing some tests for a course I'm working on and noticed in the Wipeout my stick, a Thrustmaster Hotas X, has a slider (another one) on the throttle stick. So I configured the analogue brakes to it and it set itself at a midpoint with the air brakes. It's not so much a game problem, but a stick problem (it's great for A3 helo flying) so that's something I disabled and have to mess around with it and see how it goes as it somehow sets the brakes (and jet throttle) to the midpoint, but I still noticed that I was at 50% (though it turns on at 1% so that's an improvement) before the engines start pushing the aircraft (Wipeout).

---------- Post added at 00:43 ---------- Previous post was at 23:18 ----------

So I managed to fix the issue, set it for one button press and now it's doing pretty good. What I think the issue is that even then the thrust isn't that good for the Wipeout at least (been practicing more with that now) so when you're hitting 50% I guess it's that armor that's the reason why it's like that? I'm sure it can be removed and reshaped or whatever as well... it's still easy to shoot down (so it's pointless to me) and therefore the thrust should be adjusted so that when you want to taxi (as in DCS, like all the jets) you don't have to throttle up so high for it to push the jet (hell I gotta watch my speed at like 10%ish or less due to inertia) which is the case for the Wipeout at least. I need to hop in my sport jet (Buzzard CAS) and see how that goes but overall that's how I look at it with the adjusted settings.

Edited October 30, 2014 by EricJ

[the_demongod 31]

Wrong ;) I know it's damn unintuitive, but you have to map BOTH X Axis + and X Axis - to "Thrust (Analogue)" to have the full extent of one axis.

Like:

http://i.imgur.com/opdveRSl.jpg

(Similarly you can map both halves of one axis to "Brake (Analogue)" to have airbrakes' input stretch over the full axis. The consequence of mapping + and - also defines if the axis is going to be inverted.).

You can also check http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=6888

Recently a new programmer started looking into some of the long-lasting controller issues. (you may have noticed that e.g. the painful 16-button limit has already been fixed in the dev branch)

Well I seem to have made a bit of a fool out of myself :D but yes, it's damn unintuitive. Thanks for the reply though. Mystery solved.

I'm not sure the maps in Arma3 are big enough for realistic fixed wing flight dynamics, but otherwise I fully agree with the annoying throttle problem.

I would agree, but watch

video and I think you may change your mind at least partway. This island appears to be quite a bit smaller than Altis, and yet the aircraft are still able to have a realistically-ranged engagement. We can't expect great Beyond Visual Range combat simulation complete with proper radar simulation, Inertially guided AIM-120Cs, ECM jammers, full-fidelity missile physics simulation, etc. but smaller dogfights should definitely be doable with what we've currently got. AIM-9 sidewinders are usually fired within arma-sized ranges anyways.

We can also take advantage of oceans to greatly increase the area of maps like Altis.

The only other thing that would really need to change would be to see some lower-detail maps to make it easier to run at 12k render distance. This is already possible with A3MP arma 2 ported maps, so it's definitely possible, at least we'll have modded maps that support such fights.

It would also benefit from some sort of setting that, when entering a fixed wing aircraft, would do things like remove all grass, lower the render detail of ground objects (but hopefully leave air objects high quality to make them easier to see during an engagement/at range). It would allow us to retain high render settings for our targets and allies without having the ground fight bog down your computer. I don't know if the engine supports selectively rendering like this but it would significantly improve the FPS while flying using high view distances.

It could totally work, we just can't expect DCS or BMS level long-range combat.

Edited October 30, 2014 by the_Demongod

[twisted 128]

Wrong ;) I know it's damn unintuitive, but you have to map BOTH X Axis + and X Axis - to "Thrust (Analogue)" to have the full extent of one axis.

Like:

http://i.imgur.com/opdveRSl.jpg

(Similarly you can map both halves of one axis to "Brake (Analogue)" to have airbrakes' input stretch over the full axis. The consequence of mapping + and - also defines if the axis is going to be inverted.).

You can also check http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=6888

Recently a new programmer started looking into some of the long-lasting controller issues. (you may have noticed that e.g. the painful 16-button limit has already been fixed in the dev branch)

cant believe ive been doing it wrong all this time. thanks.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Well for now then, I'm going to request something simple that will help a lot more with the current flight model, but one step in the right direction. BIS, if you can add the same throttle mapping as the one the Advanced flight model does. Why would this help? It's more realistic, it more simple on fixed wing than it is on Helicopters, and it helps instead of having to hold down thrust (q) while making turns to prevent you from loosing speed. You simply set what percent of thrust you want, and you can lower/raise the percent accordingly. This would also mean Taxiing will be doable with jets now, as you can put your thrust up to 5-10% for a steady slow push on the Tarmac.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

Edit: Vote, ticket here. http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21428

Edited October 30, 2014 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[deltagamer 612]

+1 for the above, I think this would help out a lot.

[EricJ 761]

Took a spin in the Buzzard (CAS) and as mentioned, can taxi fine without hitting the 50% mark (say 10-20% right now for my throttle... ish). Anyway the Wipeout simply has a lower thrust to weight ratio (so you need more than 50% to get rolling). Haven't touched the Neophron yet but the Super Hornet acted as the Buzzard (CAS). If the future is the Wipeout and I can load an A-10A in DCS and still takeoff (okay I'm not ever going to break a world speed record) but I can hit the Cacauscus mountains and if careful make it through them fine. So of course the suggestion is to increase the power of the engines to give it some push as when you keep the throttle high it moves as it should.

[oukej 2911]

If you want you can try a different Wipeout configuration here - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=334622056 and tell us what you think about it. Disclaimer: It's not an official addon and it doesn't work properly with AI. Just a test to see can be achieved as for now - with some generally acceptable degree of abstraction.

In this addon the Wipeout should behave a little bit closer to the A10 (scaled for A3) with some sort of FBW (we don't precisely simulate stalling). I've chosen Wipeout because from the planes we currently have it has this closest direct counterpart it can be compared to and people have experience with.

Edited November 1, 2014 by oukej
updated link

[EricJ 761]

"Marked as hidden or don't have permission to view it" Or maybe because I'm not on actual dev branch just adding commentary from stable? And yes logged into Steam.

Also while I was working on a DCS skin would it be possible for you to remove that futuristic Pave Penny pod on the nose area? Current A-10Cs don't have it anymore due to the use of the Litening III/Sniper XR pod... and not my work but here's a TGP script which could be probably reverse engineered or maybe credit the makers:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?179309-Release-Script-TGP-Targeting-Pod-for-Air-Vehicles

Given the control scheme it is what it is but I'd suggest maybe if you can add the modifiers it may be worth looking into or implementing in the future.

Edited October 31, 2014 by EricJ

[oukej 2911]

"Marked as hidden or don't have permission to view it"

Strange, the addon should be public :/ You can try looking for "Wipeout Test" addon or look into my workshop entries ( http://steamcommunity.com/id/okdante/myworkshopfiles/ )

As for the Targeting Pod - it has already been possible for a while via an engine functionality. You can check it on the recent implementation of down-looking cameras on helicopters (a slingloading aid). You can enter the full screen camera feed via Ctrl+RMB. The max. ranges and angles of the camera movement can be defined in the config.

[EricJ 761]

Ahh no shit... Found the page but still gives the same error, I'll try looking through the Steam Interface (which I'm just viewing through FireFox).

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

No luck man, doesn't come up in the Steam Search either, probably need to check the settings of your config fix

[oukej 2911]

No luck man, doesn't come up in the Steam Search either, probably need to check the settings of your config fix

Should work now - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334622056

[EricJ 761]

Indeed it did so I'll give it a spin shortly (need a break anyway)...

---------- Post added at 16:12 ---------- Previous post was at 15:48 ----------

I liked it, very nice touch of the FBW and old school flying... I Liked it a lot though it seems analogue was still more responsive but I'll get used to it, nice work. But I still think the Wipeout still have those issues due to the weight of the aircraft as once you get it moving it moves as it should.

[five_seven5-7 56]

If you want you can try a different Wipeout configuration here - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334532514 and tell us what you think about it. Disclaimer: It's not an official addon and it doesn't work properly with AI. Just a test to see can be achieved as for now - with some generally acceptable degree of abstraction.

In this addon the Wipeout should behave a little bit closer to the A10 (scaled for A3) with some sort of FBW (we don't precisely simulate stalling). I've chosen Wipeout because from the planes we currently have it has this closest direct counterpart it can be compared to and people have experience with.

Much better, day and night from the previous config.

[dezkit 28]

If you want you can try a different Wipeout configuration here - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334532514 and tell us what you think about it. Disclaimer: It's not an official addon and it doesn't work properly with AI. Just a test to see can be achieved as for now - with some generally acceptable degree of abstraction.

In this addon the Wipeout should behave a little bit closer to the A10 (scaled for A3) with some sort of FBW (we don't precisely simulate stalling). I've chosen Wipeout because from the planes we currently have it has this closest direct counterpart it can be compared to and people have experience with.

404 error

[EricJ 761]

It was a test as oukej got what feedback he needed.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Should work now - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334622056

What do you think of my proposal Oukej? I think that adding a throttle feature such as the one used with the Advanced helicopter model will improve everyone experience with Fixed Wing, even Keyboard and mouse users.

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

Second this,

annoying for me using keyboard constantly holding trust. Specially when you are hitting keys for lock on, shooting , countermeasures all at same time.... Surprised it has not been implemented.

[oukej 2911]

404 error

Should work now - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334622056

Try this one. Sry about that, the first link provided was incorrectly published. I'll update it.

What do you think of my proposal Oukej? I think that adding a throttle feature such as the one used with the Advanced helicopter model will improve everyone experience with Fixed Wing, even Keyboard and mouse users.

Personally I like it. However it's not a planned change. I'd suggest making a FT ticket if there isn't already, put up some votes & PM me with a link.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Try this one. Sry about that, the first link provided was incorrectly published. I'll update it.

Personally I like it. However it's not a planned change. I'd suggest making a FT ticket if there isn't already, put up some votes & PM me with a link.

Copy that!

Everyone VOTE UP! http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21428

In order for us pilots to Survive, we must Adapt this feature, to Win!

Edited November 1, 2014 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[EricJ 761]

Oukej does that still disable the analog control?

[oukej 2911]

Oukej does that still disable the analog control?

What do you mean?

[Jona33 51]

Copy that!

Everyone VOTE UP! http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21428

In order for us pilots to Survive, we must Adapt this feature, to Win!

Upvoted.

[the_demongod 31]

Copy that!

Everyone VOTE UP! http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21428

In order for us pilots to Survive, we must Adapt this feature, to Win!

Here is a ticket I made a little while ago which included more features but also included your throttle suggestion.

EDIT: I checked out oukej's new wipeout configuration, the only thing I noticed is that the rudder pedals have almost no effect. But besides that it feels great.

Edited November 1, 2014 by the_Demongod