2nd American Civil War/WW3

[Robert Scoles 4]

Just wanting to throw an idea out here see how people respond to it.

 

What would you all think of a mod of an alternate reality Where a 2nd Civil War breaks out in america and because its ww3 and our military is busy overseas fighting China, Europe, and the Middle East. So Its up to Police, State Defense Forces, and some National Guard Forces to Not only Defend the Homefront but Also defeat a home grown, Foreign Supplied and Funded Enemy Force.

 

Any Thoughts?

[wld427 1705]

i would be into making a modern Confederate Army.... no matter how politically incorrect it may be. 

[flv*venom* 83]

7 hours ago, wld427 said:

i would be into making a modern Confederate Army.... no matter how politically incorrect it may be. 

 

This made my day :D

 

Back on topic, well, all I say is: the more content, the better. But it sounds like a hell of a lot of work. But in general, cool idea

[Robert Scoles 4]

I'm gonna be writing a summary of the lead up to the War and Units and Parties involved. There are a good Set of Maps that could be used in the Mod. I'll post links to them up here soon. If anyone Knows someone who can point me to a Modder or Group of Modders who could help me get this made.

[dragon01 902]

What are those maps? I've been looking for good US maps some time ago (for a Red Dawn-style scenario) and couldn't find anything suitable.

[Robert Scoles 4]

6 minutes ago, dragon01 said:

What are those maps? I've been looking for good US maps some time ago (for a Red Dawn-style scenario) and couldn't find anything suitable.

Here are some I've been gathering as possible maps for the mod. What Do you say we combine our efforts and make this mod together?

 

I'm not sure what state this is in i think its oregon. But its Jackson County from what i understand.

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28505

 

Santa Catalina Island

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=29035

 

It says this terrain is based on nevada

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=32230

 

this is Block Island which i believe belongs to rhode island

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=32213

 

a Smaller version of Manhatten i believe

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23869

 

Mountain Wilderness would do good as a Rocky Mountain Map

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=32527

 

this is the islands and dock areas of new york harbor including southern manhatten and brooklyn

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=31092

 

with the jets DLC coming out this would do good as a naval map

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=30348

 

Kelleys island i'm thinking of something to do with that

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=31573

 

A kansas town I'm thinking the Western Seperatist forces could push into the mid west

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=30075

 

Angel Island in san francisco bay

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=29018

 

with a few things altered this los santos map could make do as a los angelas map

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=31061

 

this could also help with police officer skins in the mod

https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/173618-max-los-angeles-police-department-mod/

 

[scimitar 221]

I'm far from a politically correct person and I believe that this could be very interesting but current US politics would absolutely have to be kept out of it or the bickering surrounding any such mod or scenario would be constant and disruptive. That means NO fascist East US faction vs a communist West US faction, nor a return to the North vs South of the first ACW. Needless to say, race and religion shouldn't play a primary role either. I'm really not trying to be PC, but I feel that any of those factors could lead to much controversy and dissent, which could derail any such project. Personally, I would rather see American patriots/resistance/partisans fighting an invading and occupying force and their treasonous American collaborationist forces. Alternately, to remain closer to the original idea, collaborationist forces installed by foreign invaders and left to administrate the seized areas would be a good back story to explain the reason for a new Civil War.

[Robert Scoles 4]

1 hour ago, scimitar said:

I'm far from a politically correct person and I believe that this could be very interesting but current US politics would absolutely have to be kept out of it or the bickering surrounding any such mod or scenario would be constant and disruptive. That means NO fascist East US faction vs a communist West US faction, nor a return to the North vs South of the first ACW. Needless to say, race and religion shouldn't play a primary role either. I'm really not trying to be PC, but I feel that any of those factors could lead to much controversy and dissent, which could derail any such project. Personally, I would rather see American patriots/resistance/partisans fighting an invading and occupying force and their treasonous American collaborationist forces. Alternately, to remain closer to the original idea, collaborationist forces installed by foreign invaders and left to administrate the seized areas would be a good back story to explain the reason for a new Civil War.

 

I completely understand your position and agree with almost all of it. The plain truth of the matter is that while i don't want to play to deeply into the politics around the nation the simple fact is that its more likely for California to secede then it is for China/ North Korea, or Russia to invade the Mainland United States. I instead wish to show a sobering reminder to people what war on american soil would look like in a certain set of circumstances which BTW aren't to unrealistic. I don't encourage anyone to start pushing for Secession, Political, Cultural, Religious, or National Extremism. In fact I want them to understand that if this war happens or if it never does happened it would be a bloodbath on their streets, in their homes, their schools, and most importantly in their very lives. I cant and won't be able Control what people think and feel from this. But i do Hope I can show them How I Hope it will be interpreted and How I would look at a Situation like this if it happened in real life.

 

As for the exact details there will be out forces manipulating both sides in some way. but i will not simply portray one side as good and the other side as evil. both will have Good qualities even great achievements, but both will also have Terrible Flaws and Misdeeds occur at there hands. I want to make this as realistic as possible. I'm thinking of it as part of a WW3 Scenario but without Nukes. I'll Post up a Storyline as soon as i have a Dev team ready and the Writing has been edited and is presentable.

[in005 241]

Maybe this is something to help you:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_(independence_movement)

[Delta Hawk 1829]

A 2nd American civil war is kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?  It's safe to say the majority of private firearm owners and the US military are Constitutionalists or of similar ideology while the majority of the opposing force is anti firearm and anti-war.  I don't think having 100 million people with firearms shooting at 100 million people protesting, rioting and burning trash cans just because they were triggered over something Trump said would be much of a civil war.  Also, not a single damn shot will be fired if California decided to leave.  In fact I think the majority of America will wish California the best of luck.  Know what I mean? 

 

Now, I say that to say this, no matter how much you try not to make it political it will be.  It's not like America is going to have a civil war because Iphone people hate Android people, so people will ultimately apply current politics to it.  I know it may not seem like it to people who aren't from America, but the political atmosphere here right now is very turbulent.

 

I think a Red Dawn setting would be more appropriate if you really intend on going down this path, in which case, the opposition is already made. 

 

 

[wld427 1705]

Quite frankly i want to actually do this now.... just to be politically incorrect and piss people off.....

[lumnuon 295]

You could always take inspiration from World in Conflict

 

 

Although I have to say that I would like to see someone other than the Russians fighting against the US because it´s getting kinda old (China as an adversary would be something new in Arma).

Other than that Delta Hawk pretty much nailed it.

[bars91 956]

Soo... someone makes a 100th mod/game about hypothetical civil war/communist resurgence in Russia - no one bites an eye.

 

Someone merely suggests an hypothetical civil war scenario in US - HOLY SHIT CALL THE CIA, NSA and THE FBI !!!!

[froggyluv 2135]

7 minutes ago, bars91 said:

 

Someone merely suggests an hypothetical civil war scenario in US - HOLY SHIT CALL THE CIA, NSA and THE FBI !!!!

 

 What are you referring to? Nobody in this thread or anywhere on this forum has reacted like that

[lumnuon 295]

48 minutes ago, bars91 said:

Soo... someone makes a 100th mod/game about hypothetical civil war/communist resurgence in Russia - no one bites an eye.

 

Someone merely suggests an hypothetical civil war scenario in US - HOLY SHIT CALL THE CIA, NSA and THE FBI !!!!

 

Quite the opposite actually. I don´t give a flying **** about political correctness (and most people here are probably thick skinned enough too) but there are others out there that do - for different reasons that is. And some are out there looking for things to get offended by to make a dime. If I remember correctly there was an ISIS mod a few years ago to provide proper targets for MilSim units and some fairly popular newspaper spun it to "ArmA 3 - The ISIS training simulator".

 

My point is that you should do what you want to do, but also keep in mind that there are people out there who are willing to spin what you say or do to profit from it while claiming a moral high-ground and they will not stop until you concede or you are ruined. The mod creator for the ISIS mod even had his name spread if I remember correctly.

[Robert Scoles 4]

4 hours ago, in005 said:

Maybe this is something to help you:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_(independence_movement)

I'll Consider writing something about it. I'm still hammering out how the War will go but i'll try and see if i can address it.

[Robert Scoles 4]

3 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

A 2nd American civil war is kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?  It's safe to say the majority of private firearm owners and the US military are Constitutionalists or of similar ideology while the majority of the opposing force is anti firearm and anti-war.  I don't think having 100 million people with firearms shooting at 100 million people protesting, rioting and burning trash cans just because they were triggered over something Trump said would be much of a civil war.  Also, not a single damn shot will be fired if California decided to leave.  In fact I think the majority of America will wish California the best of luck.  Know what I mean? 

 

Now, I say that to say this, no matter how much you try not to make it political it will be.  It's not like America is going to have a civil war because Iphone people hate Android people, so people will ultimately apply current politics to it.  I know it may not seem like it to people who aren't from America, but the political atmosphere here right now is very turbulent.

 

I think a Red Dawn setting would be more appropriate if you really intend on going down this path, in which case, the opposition is already made. 

 

 

While Trump is a Main Character of the Story. He is not the Chief cause of the War he along with California and other states are swept up in Circumstances beyond his Control. Alot of it is Economic, and Financial Influence on the International Level. It's not gonna be some Single issue problem but underlying issues that have built up for a long time, combined with economic Changes that Offer better Opportunities for The states Leaving the Union. (P.S. It's not just California.)

 

As for those who are going to be fighting for the states that secede. In the story plenty of people will Immigrate to these States for Jobs and Money. Not just those From Mexico, and The Middle East, But from States that Haven't Left the Union as well.

 

These People not only Fill the Jobs, and Homes, but also the Ranks of Armies, Navies, and Air Forces, of each State, Confederation, or Federation.

[scimitar 221]

Sadly, my point about political bickering has been amply made already. However, I would like to see this come to fruition and having said that, I believe that setting this in the current time period is a mistake. Perhaps it could be moved 10 years into the future (no need for current politicians to be mentioned at all) or set in a slightly different and somewhat alternate reality. IMO, it would be more plausible if it takes place after a major terrorist or military attack (perhaps the reason for WW3?) has destabilized the country (perhaps an attack on and collapse of our economic system or power grid) and made it possible for a breakaway republic to form while the nation is trying to recover.

 

@Robert Scoles, thanks for the PM. While I don't have time for what you suggested, I'm always available for questions, advice (or questionable advice! ) or to bounce ideas around. Feel free to message me at any time and best of luck with this project.

[Zhivets 2392]

As some other people have suggested, I think a Red Dawn-style scenario would be more interesting and less complicated than a civil war which is not really likely to happen at all and not something I think many people would be interested in.

 

Whatever route you choose, I wish you luck.

[Robert Scoles 4]

1 minute ago, scimitar said:

Sadly, my point about political bickering has been amply made already. However, I would like to see this come to fruition and having said that, I believe that setting this in the current time period is a mistake. Perhaps it could be moved 10 years into the future (no need for current politicians to be mentioned at all) or set in a slightly different and somewhat alternate reality. IMO, it would be more plausible if it takes place after a major terrorist or military attack (perhaps the reason for WW3?) has destabilized the country (perhaps an attack on and collapse of our economic system or power grid) and made it possible for a breakaway republic to form while the nation is trying to recover.

 

@Robert Scoles, thanks for the PM. While I don't have time for what you suggested, I'm always available for questions, advice (or questionable advice! :) ) or to bounce ideas around. Feel free to message me at any time and best of luck with this project.

WW3 is going on while this happens. in fact its one of the catalysts to the conflict along with an economic instability due to the dollar being replaced by the yen as the worlds reserve currency. I'm still writing this out so i can replace the main characters  political positions as amalgamations of people to help get away from the real world personalities. as for the time period its I wouldn't mind moving it into the future except i want to keep it grounded in the present for a purpose.

[Robert Scoles 4]

10 minutes ago, Zhivets said:

As some other people have suggested, I think a Red Dawn-style scenario would be more interesting and less complicated than a civil war which is not really likely to happen at all and not something I think many people would be interested in.

 

Whatever route you choose, I wish you luck.

Why do people think Russia or China can invade the United States? I Genuinely do not understand how people could entertain the concept as anywhere near possible. they would have to cross the entire pacific ocean good luck not getting spotted, by radar, container ships, fishing boats, military, and coast guard patrols, satellites, and aircraft, from 3 major US naval bases, (Okinawa, Guam, And the Base still at Pearl Harbor) also avoiding being spotted by 4 of our allies in the pacific. (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and The Philippines.) Even if any nations military managed to get past all that and land in California they would need a force of at least 500,000 troops (which neither Russia nor China have the have the navy in order to pull off) to take and hold cities as large as the ones in California. Los Angeles, San Francisco, and the farmland and wine country area in the middle of the state. then they have to get past the mountains. which by the time they took those cities the entire country would know about what was going on and would be up in arms about it. Not Forgetting the military that would swoop in and kill and destroy the entire enemy force in about 5 months at the longest. to have guerrillas face an enemy force would be an

 

This why a mainland invasion of the united states would just never happen at all. Every nation knows this. Which is why it would Boil down to someone Funding and supplying states that have left the Union and Manipulating those in power in those states to get more aggressive with the US government in order to cause provocation. given the economic instability and decline that would happen to the united states in the mod it would give California and other states not only Political and Social Incentive, to Leave the Union but now also Economic incentive as well.

[scimitar 221]

Why does an invading force have to be Chinese, Russian or North Korean? I can think of a plausible scenario where the invasion could come from south of the border by a coalition of forces from Central and South America and their allies around the world. What if that region of the world became increasingly Socialist and antagonistic toward American interests (think Venezuela) due to real or perceived transgressions by the USA? What if at the same time, major oil fields were discovered somewhere in the region (unlikely but plausible)? It could enrich those countries and allow them to become trading partners and allies with other nations that are antagonistic towards the USA. With the new found money and allies, they could build and modernize their militaries to become a viable threat to the US. If the US was already engaged abroad in a world war, wouldn't such a coalition be emboldened to strike at their enemy to the north?

[Robert Scoles 4]

1 minute ago, scimitar said:

Why does an invading force have to be Chinese, Russian or North Korean? I can think of a plausible scenario where the invasion could come from south of the border by a coalition of forces from Central and South America and their allies around the world. What if that region of the world became increasingly Socialist and antagonistic toward American interests (think Venezuela) due to real or perceived transgressions by the USA? What if at the same time, major oil fields were discovered somewhere in the region (unlikely but plausible)? It could enrich those countries and allow them to become trading partners and allies with other nations that are antagonistic towards the USA. With the new found money and allies, they could build and modernize their militaries to become a viable threat to the US. If the US was already engaged abroad in a world war, wouldn't such a coalition be emboldened to strike at their enemy to the north?

That's kind of what i'm going for. The western and northeastern states are already pretty left leaning in there policy. if the Dollar stopped being the worlds reserve currency it would cause investors to move away from the dollar and invest elsewhere that's what the economic catalyst is. what would enrich those countries would be trade deals with china in return for agreeing to use the yen as there reserve currency. this would allow china to send arms, ammunition, even people to train California's new military to prepare for a possible conflict with the US. other states leaving and increasing economic and troubles for the US and straining relations between the US and seceded states. other incidents result in other states leaving the union before hostilities break out. as for south america they will play a role in WW3 in the Mod just not quite in that way. I'll have a Brief run down on what each country is doing. i'm still trying to work it all out.

[R0adki11 3949]

This thread has some interesting ideas, i just thought i would drop by and mention that this forum needs to be adhered to:

 

Quote

Offensive content, flaming, privacy:

Material that is overly sexual, graphic, obscene, racist, or otherwise overly discriminatory is not permitted on these forums. Any material which constitutes defamation, harassment, abuse or slander, towards developers, staff or users, is strictly prohibited; this includes the Personal Message service, do not post private messages or user pictures. Flamebaiting is not allowed. Please do not post any personal or identifying information such as postal addresses, IPs or UIDs.

 

Thanks

[Delta Hawk 1829]

13 hours ago, Robert Scoles said:

Why do people think Russia or China can invade the United States? I Genuinely do not understand how people could entertain the concept as anywhere near possible. they would have to cross the entire pacific ocean good luck not getting spotted, by radar, container ships, fishing boats, military, and coast guard patrols, satellites, and aircraft, from 3 major US naval bases, (Okinawa, Guam, And the Base still at Pearl Harbor) also avoiding being spotted by 4 of our allies in the pacific. (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and The Philippines.) Even if any nations military managed to get past all that and land in California they would need a force of at least 500,000 troops (which neither Russia nor China have the have the navy in order to pull off) to take and hold cities as large as the ones in California. Los Angeles, San Francisco, and the farmland and wine country area in the middle of the state. then they have to get past the mountains. which by the time they took those cities the entire country would know about what was going on and would be up in arms about it. Not Forgetting the military that would swoop in and kill and destroy the entire enemy force in about 5 months at the longest. to have guerrillas face an enemy force would be an

 

This why a mainland invasion of the united states would just never happen at all. Every nation knows this. Which is why it would Boil down to someone Funding and supplying states that have left the Union and Manipulating those in power in those states to get more aggressive with the US government in order to cause provocation. given the economic instability and decline that would happen to the united states in the mod it would give California and other states not only Political and Social Incentive, to Leave the Union but now also Economic incentive as well.

 

 

 

Very true.  It's literally impossible to invade America, much less get over the Rockies.  Go luck trying to send an invasion force through the South.  California is already a loss, but a military force like Russia going through Texas during the summer would probably be massacred.  Interesting thought I believe Thomas Jefferson once said "There's two ways to enslave a nation, by force and by debt"  Actually, there's three ways to enslave a nation, by force, debt and welfare.

 

But if you want to avoid the current political issues I would highly suggest you drop Trump from your story and make you story about 20 years in the future.