Arma 3: Community wishes & ideas- DISCUSSION

[JCDBionicman 1]

You are hostile and closed minded. You fail to use common sense and at sensing your own aggressive bias. I have nothing to prove to you, only to developers who would potentially view our conversation. I believe they have enough common sense to realize a couple things, for one: if caps lock would be used for leaning, there's no magic rule that says you wouldn't be able to aim while leaned. If you would have used some common sense you could have been able to figure out for yourself that I was suggesting leaning while caps lock is held down, letting go of caps lock, then aiming. This is the only point I care to invest energy in correcting you in.

So I leave with that.

Edited January 17, 2013 by JCDBionicman

[PuFu 4600]

if caps lock would be used for leaning, there's no magic rule that says you wouldn't be able to aim while leaned.

how would you do that, because what you wrote as a following is just as flawed

If you would have used some common sense you could have been able to figure out for yourself that I was suggesting leaning while caps lock is held down, letting go of caps lock, then aiming.

but you obviously can't do the both at the same time, so when time is of the essence (like you would normally use lean - peak around a corner and pop a few shots - back to safety), you won't be able to lean and move your aim. You can do one, or another. So what you could do, is lean behind cover, then sidestep, then back again, no?

Not to say that most would most likely get stuck in the lean stance and forget about. Try double tappin E in A2 each time you want to peak around a corner, the double tap it again to go back to the normal stance. It is exactly what you are suggesting, but instead of double tap, you would use a combination of keys and mouse. Brilliant. Moreso, if leaning with a combination of key and mouse has the advantage of being analogue (as in being able to slowly lean the amount you need), you're amazing suggestion intended for controlers will just not work, simply because it is really far from how a FPS game should behave, at least on PC (my 2 cents anyways).

and i am the one closed minded? prove me wrong will you?

Edited January 17, 2013 by PuFu
typos & grammar

[slatts 1978]

if caps lock would be used for leaning, there's no magic rule that says you wouldn't be able to aim while leaned. If you would have used some common sense you could have been able to figure out for yourself that I was suggesting leaning while caps lock is held down, letting go of caps lock, then aiming.

If I held CL and moved the mouse to lean, fine, but when I release caps lock I snap back into place...how am I meant to aim around a corner? If I have to press caps again to snap back..frankly that's more awkward then just holding Q/E.

Anyway, you said BIS would do well to listen the community, point out where they havn't listened in the development of Arma 3? Just because they don't reply to you or to everything doesn't mean they don't read it.

Also, I would HIGHLY doubt a large number of people want smaller maps. a couple might do, but not enough to make BIS change their mind.

[JCDBionicman 1]

If I held CL and moved the mouse to lean, fine, but when I release caps lock I snap back into place...how am I meant to aim around a corner? If I have to press caps again to snap back..frankly that's more awkward then just holding Q/E.

Anyway, you said BIS would do well to listen the community, point out where they havn't listened in the development of Arma 3? Just because they don't reply to you or to everything doesn't mean they don't read it.

Also, I would HIGHLY doubt a large number of people want smaller maps. a couple might do, but not enough to make BIS change their mind.

It's been requested by the community multiple times.

Again, you lean, you let go of the button, and you AIM WHILE LEANING. Moving then cancels leaning.

[alex6511 1]

It's been requested by the community multiple times.

Again, you lean, you let go of the button, and you AIM WHILE LEANING. Moving then cancels leaning.

That sounds like a horrible idea, you wouldn't be able to make quick movements around corners at all. I can see the use on maybe an Xbox controller where a key modifier and a system like this would work, but keep in mind on an Xbox controller you have 2 thumb sticks, not a single mouse, that changes a lot. I get shot enough by being bogged down by Arma's clunky movement and this would just be adding another layer to an already clunky system. This doesn't even take into account that in Arma 3 many new stances will be added, which will surely complicate things even more. The current system works, it isn't broken, why fix it?

[JCDBionicman 1]

That sounds like a horrible idea, you wouldn't be able to make quick movements around corners at all. I can see the use on maybe an Xbox controller where a key modifier and a system like this would work, but keep in mind on an Xbox controller you have 2 thumb sticks, not a single mouse, that changes a lot. I get shot enough by being bogged down by Arma's clunky movement and this would just be adding another layer to an already clunky system. This doesn't even take into account that in Arma 3 many new stances will be added, which will surely complicate things even more. The current system works, it isn't broken, why fix it?

I don't see how it's clunky. It wouldn't be less quick either (edit: It is slightly slower). It saves another key for a more useful purpose, where using leaning for two separate keys was wasteful.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JCDBionicman

[slatts 1978]

It's been requested by the community multiple times.

Again, you lean, you let go of the button, and you AIM WHILE LEANING. Moving then cancels leaning.

Which has? Maps, leaning or both? Being frank I don't remember the COMMUNITY requesting it/them. I remember a handful of members requesting it.

Stop taking a few peoples ideas as the communities ideas.

[JCDBionicman 1]

Which has? Maps, leaning or both? Being frank I don't remember the COMMUNITY requesting it/them. I remember a handful of members requesting it.

Stop taking a few peoples ideas as the communities ideas.

I'm talking about maps, and it is fact that the community has been asking for smaller chunks of larger maps for quite some time, else Ivan wouldn't have mentioned as such as another user quoted.

[PuFu 4600]

That sounds like a horrible idea, you wouldn't be able to make quick movements around corners at all. I can see the use on maybe an Xbox controller where a key modifier and a system like this would work, but keep in mind on an Xbox controller you have 2 thumb sticks, not a single mouse, that changes a lot. I get shot enough by being bogged down by Arma's clunky movement and this would just be adding another layer to an already clunky system. This doesn't even take into account that in Arma 3 many new stances will be added, which will surely complicate things even more. The current system works, it isn't broken, why fix it?

+1

Again, you lean, you let go of the button, and you AIM WHILE LEANING. Moving then cancels leaning.

Can't you notice the cacophony? Movement that cancels leaning? So while you aiming and receive incoming fire, moving forward or back will cancel the lean stance? I foresee frustrations.

I don't see how it's clunky. It wouldn't be less quick either. It saves another key for a more useful purpose, where using leaning for two separate keys was wasteful.

That is because you don't wanna read what has been said:

1. No one but you have issues with Q/E as lean keys. No one else wants those keys saved from the agony of having to work as lean, not anyone playing with a keyboard that is.

2. Yes, it would be slower(having to press a key - instant, having to press a key and drag the mouse - 1+ s), and will simply not work in any combat situations due to the flaws i have already listed for you. Your only reason to push on this issue is because you can't play the game with your xbox controller. You are trying to reinvent the wheel when there is nothing to reinvent.

To end this ongoing conversation between the 2 of us: it is just not gonna happen, so stop dragging this any further. I know i won't bother with it.

[JCDBionicman 1]

+1

Can't you notice the cacophony? Movement that cancels leaning? So while you aiming and receive incoming fire, moving forward or back will cancel the lean stance? I foresee frustrations.

That is because you don't wanna read what has been said:

1. No one but you have issues with Q/E as lean keys. No one else wants those keys saved from the agony of having to work as lean, not anyone playing with a keyboard that is.

2. Yes, it would be slower(having to press a key - instant, having to press a key and drag the mouse - 1+ s), and will simply not work in any combat situations due to the flaws i have already listed for you. Your only reason to push on this issue is because you can't play the game with your xbox controller. You are trying to reinvent the wheel when there is nothing to reinvent.

To end this ongoing conversation between the 2 of us: it is just not gonna happen, so stop dragging this any further. I know i won't bother with it.

I thought I told you I was the one who didn't want to have anything to do with you didn't I? You want to make it look like it was your idea first, like a child? Well since you won't go away I have no choice but to address your points, as unworthy they are of being addressed.

Cacophony... that's a new one. Google says "A harsh, discordant mixture of sounds." I think that's an accurate description of the current system of controls, not what I'm suggesting. Since generally leaning takes place behind cover, where you would generally sit still behind such cover, that movement cancels leaning is actually quite natural. I forsee "not-giving-a-crap."

1. There was someone else that commended my idea actually, also noting that the same system was commended in Medal Of Honor by all of it's players. If they work even just equally as well as q and e, and not better, it's worth getting rid of the wasted second key for a better use. There are fourteen keys surrounding wasd, and the commands for these keys should be chosen wisely.

2. It would take less than a split second more while saving the keys around wasd for more important inputs, making it very much worth it. Leaning is not something you even have to do often if we're being totally honest.

3. Actually in this case, both the controller and keyboard users win. As said, leaning is rarely used being that most battles take place out in the open. It's mainly just tacked on to the same key responsible for stance changing for the sake of getting rid of wasted keys for the sake of commands that are sometimes useful, but rarely so. Firefights usually take place nowhere near walls and other structures, which are the only type of cover that can be utilized by leaning.

I think you might also be forgetting that I never said q and e couldn't be used in place of what I'm suggesting, if it really is so godawful.

You don't need smaller maps. A bigger map allows you to maneuver, and play on the entire thing if this is what your heart desires. On the other hand, no one is stopping you to restrict yourself (or force restriction if needed in the mission) to only a portion of the provided terrain. You can't really do the opposite with a smaller island, can you? Some of the (poor) PvP gamemodes that come with the vanilla game restrict the play to only a few areas/cities.

I do dissagre yet again. You can't compare a bicycle to a car, although both are transport vehicles. Same goes when it comes to fixing the bike versus fixing the car, the difference being the number of pieces and the complexity of the operation.

It is because you obviously fail to see the difference here.

While i agree with you that BI should spend more time on missions that will be delivered on game launch, you obviously fail to understand that unlike other games out there where you can't choose from other missions that the ones provided by the game developer on launch and via DLCs, Arma is way different. What missions are being played is a chore/responsability for the server admin. There are NO official hosted servers by BI, everything is community driven. I know it is hard to grasp with you comming from the console market, but yet again, this is how things have been and most likely will remain, even if BIS will release 10 times more gamemodes on launch.

And as previously said, this is very very possible to do.

Yeah, go ahead and tell me, who have been around since 2001, and have played in numerous CTI games and tournaments along the way, that most people want BF3 sized islands. What part of "you can play on a 1000x1000 m zone just fine, on a 400sq km map" can't you grasp? Wanna bet who is mistaken here?

What you don't have the sense to understand:

Including smaller maps for players that want them does not equate to destroying the ability of players to play on big maps. There's also nothing wrong with people that want to finish a whole game, rather than play Warfare on and off since it can take days to actually finish one. These smaller maps as I've said aren't separate maps, they are part of the large map. They are called maps for the sake of length, and you can use a whole map like Takistan for example, what would be different would be that objectives are closer together, and fewer, so that games can be wrapped up in a reasonable amount of time. 10 or 5 square miles is still a huge space, and still much larger than Battlefield. Games would still remain lengthy.

You can sure as hell compare a bicycle car. Look, I'm doing it right now: Both are transports, a bicycle is harder to use, a car uses a fossil fuel whereas a bicycle uses the energy generated by the locomotion of a human, both use wheels which increase the amount of distance that can be gone with a smaller amount of energy. The proof is in that I just did what you said I could not do.

"It is because you obviously fail to see the difference here" is not a reply to "Also, that "modders != mission designers" is irrelevant," it's not contradicting what was said in any way, and therefore not relevant to what was said. It's not that I fail to see the difference, as I obviously do know the difference, it's that I fail to see the relevance of the point being made.

I understand full well that modding is prevalent in PC gaming. My point was that BI, nor any developer, should use the modding community as a crutch. On a smaller note, BI might have gone under if not for the modding community, so think about that. My problem with multiplayer in ArmA 2 has nothing to do with the fact that BI doesn't host servers. It also has nothing to do with the fact that I, and you guessed correctly, that I came from console gaming.

They are possible to do? Is that a typo, because I don't think you're supposed to be agreeing with me there.

I think it is you who is mistaken. As I keep pointing out, ArmA 2's server list is nonexistent, and before that it was still small.

Edited January 17, 2013 by JCDBionicman

[JCDBionicman 1]

I didn't mean to bomb the thread.

If people would be so kind as to offer further discussion on my ideas. It's okay, I don't bite, I can take criticism. In fact PuFu did point out something wrong with my leaning suggestion that was correct, which was that q and e are just a bit faster. The only problem with this criticism is that leaning just isn't something that is used often enough to have them take up two whole valuable keys, and that if people find it necessary they can still use the familiar q and e for leaning by changing them in controls.

EDIT: Perhaps wasd could be used to lean while holding CL instead under options. That would fix the problem. I edited the wish in the wishlist.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JCDBionicman

[maddogx 13]

This discussion about which button should be bound to which function seems to be dancing around a bigger issue: the control mapping needs to be more versatile.

Face it, while some people may like the idea of binding left/right lean to a key+mouse combo, others won't and would rather stick with Q+E. At the end of the day, key bindings are always a matter of personal preference, so saying "it should be mapped like this" is simply wrong. The discussion should be about what is possible. ;)

And currently, it is true that key+mouse combos (for example CAPS LOCK + mouse left/right) are not possible - but they should be, so that people can use them if they want. I think that's something everyone can agree on.

[JCDBionicman 1]

This discussion about which button should be bound to which function seems to be dancing around a bigger issue: the control mapping needs to be more versatile.

Face it, while some people may like the idea of binding left/right lean to a key+mouse combo, others won't and would rather stick with Q+E. At the end of the day, key bindings are always a matter of personal preference, so saying "it should be mapped like this" is simply wrong. The discussion should be about what is possible. ;)

And currently, it is true that key+mouse combos (for example CAPS LOCK + mouse left/right) are not possible - but they should be, so that people can use them if they want. I think that's something everyone can agree on.

I don't have any significant disagreement with you, people should be able to map their controls however they want, it's just, I think I've found a pretty good setup that most people will enjoy. I keep editing it as I find things wrong with it too, and not just for that one thing.

At least two control schemes should be in there by default, and then people can build off of that to create their own custom configuration.

[Smurf 12]

I don't have any significant disagreement with you, people should be able to map their controls however they want, it's just, I think I've found a pretty good setup that most people will enjoy. I keep editing it as I find things wrong with it too, and not just for that one thing.

At least two control schemes should be in there by default, and then people can build off of that to create their own custom configuration.

This has been discussed to death here: forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?139228-Controls-Scheme-amp-User-Interface-Feedback

The alpha will roll out with some controls schemes and, of course, will be editable. Some dev said that they really want to improve that and done some studing to understand what is most used, how it is used and so on.

I vote for wait for the Alpha and then give them some feedback.

[JCDBionicman 1]

This has been discussed to death here: forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?139228-Controls-Scheme-amp-User-Interface-Feedback

The alpha will roll out with some controls schemes and, of course, will be editable. Some dev said that they really want to improve that and done some studing to understand what is most used, how it is used and so on.

I vote for wait for the Alpha and then give them some feedback.

Huh... didn't know.

What do you make of my suggestion for better controls? It's not a very long read.

[SPC.Spets 21]

probably asked 1000 times but.. well...

I want a proper animation for every action, reload, clear JAM, change fire mode, change weapon, take a grenade, throw it, get in car, get out, etc, etc, etc those little details that will make a big difference

[carzilla 2]

CMAN Dinosaur MODE

[rye1 21]

CMAN Dinosaur MODE

Future ones?

[PuFu 4600]

probably asked 1000 times but.. well...

I want a proper animation for every action, reload, clear JAM, change fire mode, change weapon, take a grenade, throw it, get in car, get out, etc, etc, etc those little details that will make a big difference

Not gonna happen. Not for get in get out anyways. (reload is there, clear JAM will most likely NOt gonna be a feature anyways).

CMAN Dinosaur MODE

BF3 != A3

[Gunter Severloh 4054]

Make multiple units playable at once, vs one unit at a time!

Same for vehicles/armored, be able to highlight a whole group and set the playable position for all units in the squad, have like a large window

that would break into smaller windows for each tank or vehicle and then have the listed options there as you would if you were to edit the unit individually.

[[evo] dan 79]

Make multiple units playable at once, vs one unit at a time!

Same for vehicles/armored, be able to highlight a whole group and set the playable position for all units in the squad, have like a large window

that would break into smaller windows for each tank or vehicle and then have the listed options there as you would if you were to edit the unit individually.

^this definately would be extremely useful

[Gunter Severloh 4054]

Yes it would, it would simplify and speedup the editing process for building missions.

Considering this is a huge editing and modding community, i really think this could increase the number and quality of missions released if the editor had

more functionality in it where basic function can be enhanced or upgraded if you will to be more versatile.

If I could understand how to do such a thing, to make multiple units playable at once, i would do it, but have no

idea on where to change anything editor related, probably in the ca folder.

[iceman77 18]

Which has? Maps, leaning or both? Being frank I don't remember the COMMUNITY requesting it/them. I remember a handful of members requesting it.

Stop taking a few peoples ideas as the communities ideas.

Well said. I've never heard anyone aside from noob players ask for those types of things. Our controls are fine. They've been fine for the last decade. Idk though, BI should change it on whim becasue a noob hasn't played long enough to get comfortable with the controls.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

I think that ArmA controls are at the limit of "fine",but it would be cool to add a "hold button" detection to lighten the scroll list a bit ... holding F for example would allow you to throw a grenade !

[[evo] dan 79]

Yes it would, it would simplify and speedup the editing process for building missions.

Considering this is a huge editing and modding community, i really think this could increase the number and quality of missions released if the editor had

more functionality in it where basic function can be enhanced or upgraded if you will to be more versatile.

If I could understand how to do such a thing, to make multiple units playable at once, i would do it, but have no

idea on where to change anything editor related, probably in the ca folder.

Also on top of this, some way of toggling whether you can see other units waypoints whilst setting other units, would help to reduce confusion amongst them.