UK leaves Europe

[ProfTournesol 956]

Lobbying and corruption are two very different things, my bad.

[dmarkwick 261]

Cameron pulled the pin & walked away. Whoever takes his place when that thing goes off is going to be mightily, hugely unpopular.

 

And of course all the other UK opposition parties have it made for the next several years for the same reason.

[nettrucker 142]

@ Kavoven

 

yes it's my honest opinion. The EU IMO was a failure from the beginning for us the common people, we are getting shafted all over the place, but that's just my opinion. I agree with you most of the world is bankrupt so it doesn't really matter. I admire every single Brit who has voted to exit. standing tall with their head up high.   I personally think it will be triggered by the banks. They are bankrupt. Do a search on "Douche Bank" , Unitcredit, Intesa SanPaolo and the list is endless.

 

Mario Draghi has addressed all governments to make bail ins legal by law. These laws have been implemented in the meantime. Introduction of negative interest should sound every possible alarm bell. This shows you without doubt how desperate they are. They don't know what to do anymore. In any case the bill will be paid by we the common people. You know all major Banks are a blackhole. It will never stop. If "Douche bank" will go belly up what is highly likely to occur due to their massive exposure in derivatives market. It will trigger a financial Tsunami that will bring down the EU even maybe trigger a worldwide implosion of the financial market. You keep pumping that bubble and it will burst. The EU is bankrupt because their banks are bankrupt it is

as simple as that.

 

Since "the powers that be" know the risk they have their plan how to avoid that, they will stick the bill to you the common German people. Germans have been indoctrinated into stupidness since after WW2  and don't give me any shit because I'm German myself.

 

 

I'm watching often discussion in the European parliament. I've never seem a bunch of more incompetent traitors to all European people than in that place. I love seeing Nigel Farrage make these globalist liberal imbecilles eat shit.  We are fucked!!!!! Proper fucked!!!! If someone would really take the time and read the Mastricht-Lisbon treaty than you people would realize that we are not in a democracy anymore. Call it Oligarchy call it what you want it doesn't matter.  It's the European Commission which dictates law and every member state has to abide.  There are three major power structures which is the EC - ECB - IMF. Always the IMF in the middle. Whereever the IMF moves it leaves countries and their economies in shambles, They did that in the 80's and 90's in South America. North Africa  and the Middle East. Now they stepped up their effort here in Europe. Never let a good crisis go to waste.

 

So there are only 2 ways  . . . failure or the push for an even tighter EU which means rthe complete destruction of the right to be a sovreign member Nation.  i believe that they will climb over corpses to maintain the EU in feet. They are already pushing. They will make the English people suffer as much as possible whatever the cost. It will be an example what they are going to do to any country that will even remotely think to leave the EU.

It won't take long I guess and we will know.

In any case The English people who have voted and chosen an end with fear rather than a fear without end have my utmost respect. I salute you!!!!

[dontknowhow 33]

But article 50 will be invoked at some point. Maybe some of the EU members will push hard enough for it to be invoked before, but from the UK point of view, I believe, time would be a better option than straight in now.

 

Some players in the EU want it done soon, to deter others from holding referendums. They would rather show the UK having a bad time leaving, therefore making an example of the UK to deter others from doing the same.

I'm afraid you are mistaking. People tend to be very careful with their money when they don't know what is going on, and they tend to move less. All this lack of clarity about the future is disruptive. That's the problem. Markets are sort of recovering, but the news about companies reconsidering their operations in Britain and Europe is still there.

There are lots of predictions of doomsday, even from people with a clue like Greenspan and Soros. Personally I think they are going too far, but don't expect anything good until things settle, and it's hard for them to settle if the situation doesn't stabilize.

Sure, it can stabilize while waiting for article 50, but I'd rather have the article invoked now. We have the period of turbulence that has to come, and then we are done. It's better for everybody.

I can understand that the UK might want to use the 2 year window in the best way, but at latest that would mean as soon as the new government comes.

 

Do you recognize that GBs debt is in the upper third compared to the GNP of other EU countries? (Source)

Well, in that case it might also be worth to point out that the UK needed an IMF bailout 40 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_IMF_Crisis

But that was 3 years after joining the EU, so I guess it's our fault...

 

Well, not the bankruptcy is the main problem, but the insane levels of corruption.

Well, if that is correct then it's definitely better if Hungary leaves, because in the index of Transparency International I see only 5 EU members below it.

That would help raise the EU average.

[dontknowhow 33]

Mario Draghi has addressed all governments to make bail ins legal by law.

no he didn't

There are three major power structures which is the EC - ECB - IMF.

all of them very European. Especially the IMF.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Whereever the IMF moves it leaves countries and their economies in shambles 

 

 

 

Exactly! And not only leave them in shambles, they will be the slaves of IMF. If they do something "wrong", IMF immediately stops the money flowing. This coercion strategy works flawlessly. Only solution is kick IMF the hell out of the country while it isnt too late. We did it, so regained some freedom, and also our economy began recovering.

 

So there are only 2 ways  . . . failure or the push for an even tighter EU which means rthe complete destruction of the right to be a sovreign member Nation.  i believe that they will climb over corpses to maintain the EU in feet. They are already pushing. 

 

 

Absolutely agree. This is a sad truth. EU is going in the right direction to became the modern, ultraliberal counterpart of Stalin's soviet union. 

[nettrucker 142]

no he didn't

all of them very European. Especially the IMF.

 

Yes he did . . . but hey whatever suits you best  recently in Italy there have been a couple of bail ins. Italian banks are in deep trouble but it ain't anything considering Deutsche Bank.

 

The IMF is not European althoug it has been run for quite some years by Eurpoean figure heads Strauss Khan , Cristine Lagarde still in charge just to name a few.

But hey I don't argue with you. I for my side hope the EU desintegrates in trillions of pieces asap.

[nettrucker 142]

I'm afraid you are mistaking. People tend to be very careful with their money when they don't know what is going on, and they tend to move less. All this lack of clarity about the future is disruptive. That's the problem. Markets are sort of recovering, but the news about companies reconsidering their operations in Britain and Europe is still there.

There are lots of predictions of doomsday, even from people with a clue like Greenspan and Soros. Personally I think they are going too far, but don't expect anything good until things settle, and it's hard for them to settle if the situation doesn't stabilize.

Sure, it can stabilize while waiting for article 50, but I'd rather have the article invoked now. We have the period of turbulence that has to come, and then we are done. It's better for everybody.

I can understand that the UK might want to use the 2 year window in the best way, but at latest that would mean as soon as the new government comes.

 

Well, in that case it might also be worth to point out that the UK needed an IMF bailout 40 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_IMF_Crisis

But that was 3 years after joining the EU, so I guess it's our fault...

 

Well, if that is correct then it's definitely better if Hungary leaves, because in the index of Transparency International I see only 5 EU members below it.

That would help raise the EU average.

 

Transparency International is a joke!!!!!!!!

[dontknowhow 33]

Yes he did . . . but hey whatever suits you best  recently in Italy there have been a couple of bail ins. Italian banks are in deep trouble but it ain't anything considering Deutsche Bank.

well if he did maybe you can point to some decent news article. Please not Bild or an unknown blog somewhere.

I'm not aware of any bail ins (actually, the commission recently allowed the Italian government to use its money to provide liquidity to the banks), but Italian banks are shit and so is the Deutsche Bank. I hope those assholes go bankrupt, but after I close my account.

But that's not related to the Brexit, nor to the EU going bankrupt.

And by the way, I'd rather have the bail ins than the government bailing out with my money.

 

Transparency International is a joke!!!!!!!!

It's the most well regarded index for corruption. You can call it a joke, if you want.

 

Edit: ops, forgot. The IMF director has traditionally been European, whereas the World Bank president has traditionally been American. But I'm not sure what difference it makes.

[chrisb 196]

I'm afraid you are mistaking.   .

No, I think your mistaken. But that's the beauty of democracy, people can have alternative views.

 

The way I put my post is how I see it playing out, 'I believe that is the way it will play out'. From a business point of view, I would prefer the cautious approach and time helps. I view it from a smaller business point of view, not a multinational, or indeed a bank.

[kavoven 4]

...

 

Beside the hate speech you did not really respond to my point. I know that the southern European banks are a mess (and it seems the Deutsche Bank, too, as indicated by the US stress test), but the dept of GB is nearly as high as of all southern EU states (except for Greece maybe). So your argument is instead of taking the chance and working towards reducing the dept within the EU market, a country should isolate itself?

 

People are always assuming that our current times allow some kind of perfect solution. I can tell you - there isn't one. We are only able to chose from a number of bad solutions, of which one or two might not be as bad as the other. The only thing I can tell you is that isolation is by far the worst possible option a country has.

 

Can you imagine what would happen to Germany if we decided to leave the EU and return to the Deutsche Mark? We wouldn't be able to sell any of our goods in foreign countries. Not because of restricted market access (that might come on top of it) but because the value of our currency would only know one way - and that is up. Breaking up the EU will only mean for the week countries that they become weaker (GB for example is important way more goods than exporting, so they rely on a strong pound) and the currently strong countries will become weaker because they cannot export as much as they did before.

 

I can fully understand that people are frustrated by the way things are in the EU parliament (I am, too). But instead of crying for 19th century solutions, you should rather become active in your local political parties.

[veles-zv 176]

Exactly! And not only leave them in shambles, they will be the slaves of IMF. If they do something "wrong", IMF immediately stops the money flowing. This coercion strategy works flawlessly. Only solution is kick IMF the hell out of the country while it isnt too late. We did it, so regained some freedom, and also our economy began recovering.

 

 

Absolutely agree. This is a sad truth. EU is going in the right direction to became the modern, ultraliberal counterpart of Stalin's soviet union. 

and soon there will be no EU and peace upon Europe will have finally arrived and the funny thing is the westerners are doing it themselves :P

[nettrucker 142]

@ kavoven

 

If you consider calling globalist imbecilles, our politicians incompetent and Germans stupid, is hate speech than so be it. I don't care.

Wish you a nice day.

[dontknowhow 33]

The way I put my post is how I see it playing out, 'I believe that is the way it will play out'. From a business point of view, I would prefer the cautious approach and time helps. I view it from a smaller business point of view, not a multinational, or indeed a bank.

If the economy suffers small businesses actually tend to suffer more than big businesses. Small business didn't do very well in 2009.

Let's hope it doesn't come to this point, but if it does don't be surprised if everyone is mad at the UK. But I guess that by then someone will find out a new reason to blame the EU; by preference Germany.

 

On the other side, the reason why waiting is a good idea is really beyond me.

[zooloo75 834]

In regards to the movement away from Islamic migrants, I think it's a good move. I don't understand why Europe (and America) has to be the dumping grounds for "refugees" when there are ~50 Islam-Major countries which are more than capable of taking in their own people. I understand the regressive left's (yes, regressive) motive and ideals of being fair and humanitarian-like, but they need to face the reality that there are VERY VIOLENT (to put that kindly) extremists in the Islamic faith. It's not racism to want to restrict Muslim refugees from entering your country when you know they originate from known terrorist breeding grounds, and can clearly see an issue with them integrating with your society, it's common sense. The people of the nation should be prioritized over foreign entities.

 

Should one generalize an entire population because of a select "few?" No, but common sense says that the people of the nation should not have to risk their lives and culture for the sake of diversity and fairness. Keep in mind, your country is helping out the "refugees," you'd think that they'd be grateful.

 

In regards to "hate speech" and "racism," I find that these words have lost all meaning now. When people carelessly and improperly misuse those terms to attack those with differing stances, it only hurts one's cause.

 

Now, I could be wrong about all of this, but this is my stance on the issue based on the information I see.

 

[katipo66 94]

I don't understand why Europe (and America) has to be the dumping grounds for "refugees"

 

Maybe because they continue to fund and fuel the Syrian civil war as they have from day 1 including arming and resupplying all sorts of terrorists, actually anyone who will help overthrow Assad.

 

[zooloo75 834]

Maybe because they continue to fund and fuel the Syrian civil war as they have from day 1 including arming and resupplying all sorts of terrorists, actually anyone who will help overthrow Assad.

 

Damn it, we shouldn't even be fucking around with their affairs. Thanks Obama and Bush... (I guess)

Let them deal with their own problems. Kinda wish America would go back to being isolationists and stop with the tyrannical governing. Just another reason why I won't be voting for Clinton.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Maybe because they continue to fund and fuel the Syrian civil war as they have from day 1 including arming and resupplying all sorts of terrorists, actually anyone who will help overthrow Assad.

I agree 100% that US and all countries involved in the Iraki venture or what happened in Lybia was not only stupid but extremely dangerous for the world peace.

That said, I'd like to know your definition of "terrorism", because you seem to have very short memories, forgeting how Iran behaved and supported, together with Russia and Syria, terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah or other terrorist Shia movements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombings

Assad and his regime supported a lot of terror attacks, particularly in Lebanon, killing Prime ministers or opponents to Assad's regime : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafic_Hariri

But Russia loves those ones, nope ? Iran is such a nice place to live.

Anyway, that's too Offtopic for this topic, mate.

On topic, Farage is running away. Pathetic. So no Farage, no Johnson nor Cameron to clean the mess they put ?

[dontknowhow 33]

On topic, Farage is running away.

Only from the position he was holding in his party. He is staying in the European parliament. I wonder why :rolleyes:

[dontknowhow 33]

And now everybody is scared of leaving the EU:

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-04/eu-support-surges-in-denmark-as-brexit-scare-spreads-in-nordics

 

Ridiculous. Guys, if you want to leave, leave. Don't just stay because you are scared.

[katipo66 94]

That said, I'd like to know your definition of "terrorism", because you seem to have very short memories, forgeting how Iran behaved and supported, together with Russia and Syria, terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah or other terrorist Shia movements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombings

 

 

Well lets say Israel has accused Hezbollah but there is no evidence and Hezbollah denies it, of course any one who stands up to Israel and US are deemed terrorists, this is of course natural and expected policy, in terms of definitions for terrorism, well... should we consider France a terrorist state for this act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior - they also denied it until of course the evidence could not be denied.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well lets say Israel has accused Hezbollah but there is no evidence and Hezbollah denies it, of course any one who stands up to Israel and US are deemed terrorists, this is of course natural and expected policy, in terms of definitions for terrorism, well... should we consider France a terrorist state for this act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior - they also denied it until of course the evidence could not be denied.

 

I won't disgress any further, but every country should, including Russia and Iran, put their own house in order before requiring others  to do so.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Well lets say Israel has accused Hezbollah but there is no evidence and Hezbollah denies it, of course any one who stands up to Israel and US are deemed terrorists, this is of course natural and expected policy, in terms of definitions for terrorism, well... should we consider France a terrorist state for this act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior - they also denied it until of course the evidence could not be denied.

 

And on the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of an ongoing genocide committed by Israel against palestinian people. Anybody who tries to even talk about this, is immediately considered antisemitic. Also the countless murders committed by mossad around the world...

[ProfTournesol 956]

The pound hits a 31 years low. Ouch.

[R0adki11 3949]

And on the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of an ongoing genocide committed by Israel against palestinian people. Anybody who tries to even talk about this, is immediately considered antisemitic. Also the countless murders committed by mossad around the world...

Can we stay on topic ;)