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Tanoa discussion (Dev-Branch)

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Guys... eversince I've downloaded the Apex expansion. I get kicked from all servers including Altis. I'm o the server for roughly about a minute, then I get a msg stating "Lost connection" Ive tried everything, checking file verification, re-installed steam/internet software, Arma, etc.... But to no avail.... Pls help,

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Guys... eversince I've downloaded the Apex expansion. I get kicked from all servers including Altis. I'm o the server for roughly about a minute, then I get a msg stating "Lost connection" Ive tried everything, checking file verification, re-installed steam/internet software, Arma, etc.... But to no avail.... Pls help,

 

When that happens, create a Troubleshooting Report via the Launcher, see "Creating a troubleshooting report" https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Launcher#Creating_a_Troubleshooting_Report

and create a ticket here with as much information as you can share. https://feedback.bistudio.com/

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Building upon some splendid community feedback, the Art Department in Mníšek pod Brdy (AKA Team Mike) has been experimenting with some improvements to certain Tanoa structures. To kick things off, they've been looking at ways to communicate the accessibility of buildings more effectively. Their first goal is to make enterable and non-enterable buildings more clearly recognisable (ie avoiding situations where players to run up to doors and discover that they can't be opened). 

 

Of course, the terrain is already released and many community scenarios are already built. With this in mind, the improvements focus on the addition of simple models, such as locks, barricades, etc., placed in the immediate proximity of doors. We hope these will be consistent and recognisable, without unduly affecting any existing community content; players should immediately know whether or not the building they're looking at can serve as a hide-out. 

 


 

As the work has only recently started, we don't expect to release it with the forthcoming update (1.64); however, a few changes have started to appear on Dev-Branch recently, with more expected to appear over time. It's also worth mentioning that this is part of a longer-term, post-release effort to support (all of) our terrains. We hope to share an OPREP sharing our motivations / the possibilities in a bit more detail soonâ„¢.

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Building upon some splendid community feedback, the Art Department in Mníšek pod Brdy has been experimenting with some improvements to certain Tanoa structures. To kick things off, they've been looking at ways to communicate the accessibility of buildings more effectively. Their first goal is to make enterable and non-enterable buildings more clearly recognisable (ie avoiding situations where players to run up to doors and discover that they can't be opened).

 

That's awesome. The missing recognisability was the main complaint the players in my group had about Tanoa's non-accessible buildings.

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Sounds great on giving us more information. Is there any plans on giving us some small internal parts of currently completely closed off buildings. Another thing that gets me is garage doors that cannot be interacted with despite enter able space.

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very good idea.

 

i think the sandbags and perhaps even the wooden fortifications could be a little bit missleading though, because they suggest, that troops may hide inside. non-military obejects are probably the safer bet. (like civilian door locks and civilian metal shutters, generic objects in front of the door etc. ...)

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what's wrong with 2nd pic?

 

really, for what? this room/entry makes no sense. AND I tested the pathfinding on tanoa, its terrible! At least most towns on tanoa has walkable housetops and a couple of those are connected with each other - fine, the AI cant walk on those. If you spawn a civ car via Zeus and set a waypoint as example to the next town it will never arrive undamaged. Or spawn a A-10 on any arfield as example the largest on tanoa and order to take off - it will kiss the jungle. Result: Tanoa is sadly a horror for coop missions atm.

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really, for what? this room/entry makes no sense. AND I tested the pathfinding on tanoa, its terrible! At least most towns on tanoa has walkable housetops and a couple of those are connected with each other - fine, the AI cant walk on those. If you spawn a civ car via Zeus and set a waypoint as example to the next town it will never arrive undamaged. Or spawn a A-10 on any arfield as example the largest on tanoa and order to take off - it will kiss the jungle. Result: Tanoa is sadly a horror for coop missions atm.

 

It looks like an empty store room. Without a bathroom or back office, but otherwise it's fine.

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soonâ„¢.

Any chance of going the full distance?

What I mean is adding these visually locked doors as hidden selections for all buildings to go hand in hand with this:

house1 setVariable ['bis_disabled_Door_1',1,true]

Would only make sense.

 

Cheers

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really, for what? this room/entry makes no sense. AND I tested the pathfinding on tanoa, its terrible! At least most towns on tanoa has walkable housetops and a couple of those are connected with each other - fine, the AI cant walk on those. If you spawn a civ car via Zeus and set a waypoint as example to the next town it will never arrive undamaged. Or spawn a A-10 on any arfield as example the largest on tanoa and order to take off - it will kiss the jungle. Result: Tanoa is sadly a horror for coop missions atm.

I only asked what you found wrong on that picture. That looks like corner shop or office space. Not sure why would AI want to walk in there if there is no way through. Cant see how A-10 is relevant to that picture TBH.

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Or spawn a A-10 on any arfield as example the largest on tanoa and order to take off - it will kiss the jungle.

How do you order an A-10 to take off? From my experience, AI can't handle airplane operations on the ground very well, period. Simply setting waypoints in Eden makes it crash on any airfield.

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Ok, so the visual upgrade on unenterable buildings is great. Now, why are 90% of the buildings undestructable? Especially the buildings that are enterable? Mods such as ALIVE use those buildings as insurgent installations, and trigger the installation as dealt with when the building is destroyed.

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Ok, so the visual upgrade on unenterable buildings is great. Now, why are 90% of the buildings undestructable? Especially the buildings that are enterable? Mods such as ALIVE use those buildings as insurgent installations, and trigger the installation as dealt with when the building is destroyed.

Easy, because damage models are easily one of the most time consuming things imagineable.  It's not so bad when you have simple buildings without a various small details or simple construction but destructible buildings would mean-

more repitition in buildings because there is only so much budget for X amount of time to put into something that in depth.

Fewer structures because destruction means more processing power not to mention more hidden polygons being rendered, partly why chernarus was so hungry.

True you could have them collapse into a pile of rubble via cloud of smoke but that too still requires more time.

 

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Ok, so the visual upgrade on unenterable buildings is great. Now, why are 90% of the buildings undestructable? Especially the buildings that are enterable? Mods such as ALIVE use those buildings as insurgent installations, and trigger the installation as dealt with when the building is destroyed.

 

We talked a bit about the balance of enterable / destructable buildings in a previous REP:

 

Our stance on building interiors has changed from the main game's terrains. In the broadest terms, fewer buildings will be fully enterable. You'll find more buildings that are partly enterable, and also some that cannot be entered at all. Kavala's hospital is an example of being partly accessible. There are various reasons for this approach. We all know that Altis had a great many enterable buildings, but they were void of furniture and felt suspiciously empty. We don't have the resources to solve this by producing top-notch varied interiors for all buildings. There is also performance to consider, which is helped by having more solid structures. This topic may be controversial, but we felt it better to be open about this at an early stage. We're still producing the final structures and experimenting with the balance, but it's quite clear not every building will have a full interior.

 

As mentioned in my above post, our artists have kicked off the process of investing time / effort into post-release updates by addressing the issue of un/openable doors. However, we're also preparing additional work, which includes planning for more ruin states, and perhaps even more besides. 

 

Although we're not yet in a position to make solid promises, we do recognise the long term benefit of making improvements to our terrains to stand the test of time. Finding a balance between this support and planning new work is something we're evaluating carefully for our 16-17 roadmap.

 

Also, as mentioned, we hope to see a proper OPREP on the topic, once we can share our plans with a bit more confidence. Thanks to others for other bits of feedback (here and on twitter); there are some interesting points to share with the Art team!

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Now, I don't own Apex, but from what I've noticed playing ArmA, if you're going to have partially enterable buildings, you should firstly make the ground floor accessible. In case of larger buildings, a staircase to the roof could be handy (and also realistic, these things usually aren't locked down), but it's the ground floor that you (and your enemies) take cover in during an urban firefight. Second floor is of occasional use, say, when defending or for a momentary high ground advantage, but everything above except the topmost level is going to be highly situational. If I'm gonna clamber up a skyscrapper, I'm going to the roof anyway. I believe it wouldn't be too immersion-breaking to leave individual flats locked, as far as residential buildings go.

 

Ruin models would certainly be welcome, too. I remember the time in ArmA2 when I attacked an enemy convoy (a tank, BMP2 and an Ural with ZSU-23) from a rooftop, then nearly got shot off the building by the ZSU. When I went down (and killed the darn thing's crew) I found that the gun took out the whole building's facade to have at me. :) Destructible buildings really do add a lot.

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We talked a bit about the balance of enterable / destructable buildings in a previous REP:

 

 

As mentioned in my above post, our artists have kicked off the process of investing time / effort into post-release updates by addressing the issue of un/openable doors. However, we're also preparing additional work, which includes planning for more ruin states, and perhaps even more besides. 

 

Although we're not yet in a position to make solid promises, we do recognise the long term benefit of making improvements to our terrains to stand the test of time. Finding a balance between this support and planning new work is something we're evaluating carefully for our 16-17 roadmap.

 

Also, as mentioned, we hope to see a proper OPREP on the topic, once we can share our plans with a bit more confidence. Thanks to others for other bits of feedback (here and on twitter); there are some interesting points to share with the Art team!

 

Does this include Optimization to Tanoa as many arma 3 users are not able to play Tanoa because of super low FPS comparative to other arma maps?

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Does this include Optimization to Tanoa as many arma 3 users are not able to play Tanoa because of super low FPS comparative to other arma maps?

 

Exactly.

 

I feel like it's a great looking map but currently it runs like a dog.

 

Not to mention the other multitude of problems like AI not being able to drive through numerous parts of the map effectively.  Tanoa also exposes how half-finished underwater AI is when you try and write any sort of mission using divers/sdvs etc.  

 

It would be nice to know if these problems can be sorted out and when, otherwise I feel like I'm on a hiding to nothing trying to do anything useful with it.

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Exactly.

 

I feel like it's a great looking map but currently it runs like a dog.

 

Not to mention the other multitude of problems like AI not being able to drive through numerous parts of the map effectively.  Tanoa also exposes how half-finished underwater AI is when you try and write any sort of mission using divers/sdvs etc.  

 

It would be nice to know if these problems can be sorted out and when, otherwise I feel like I'm on a hiding to nothing trying to do anything useful with it.

 

I've found the performance to be okay, with decent scripting and caching mechanics I get in both SP and MP above 30 FPS with short drops to 20-25 at times. (Running ultra in 1440p, 3-5K view distance, on 3.4-3.8 Ghz Intel Quad Core with hyper threading, 8GB RAM, and GTX 980.) But it's certainly not brilliant. I've recently noticed some ugly LOD anomalies. I.e. I'm looking through a scope or binoculars for a few seconds and when I switch back to normal view it takes a second or more until the enivronment around me is properly rendered again. Similar for these small green plants popping up in front of me.

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That's fair comment IP.

 

I do really like using it for scenarios etc but poor AI pathfinding in Tanoa compared to other maps means I have to dumb-down the kind of instructions they can be trusted to carry out, which makes for more boring missions (despite the awesome looking terrain and atmosphere on the map).

 

Combined with the generally poor framerate I'm getting on Tanoa, it's made for a frustrating experience so far.

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That's fair comment IP.

 

I do really like using it for scenarios etc but poor AI pathfinding in Tanoa compared to other maps means I have to dumb-down the kind of instructions they can be trusted to carry out, which makes for more boring missions (despite the awesome looking terrain and atmosphere on the map).

 

Combined with the generally poor framerate I'm getting on Tanoa, it's made for a frustrating experience so far.

 

most terrains have teething issues when they first come out. I'll wait for 1.64 to pass judgement on Tanoa perf/stability. BI has stated explicitly that they didn't hamper their design team with AI limitations. For AI all I want is for a vehicle to be able to drive around on a road for an hour without destroying itself or stopping :)

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I've found the performance to be okay, with decent scripting and caching mechanics I get in both SP and MP above 30 FPS with short drops to 20-25 at times. (Running ultra in 1440p, 3-5K view distance, on 3.4-3.8 Ghz Intel Quad Core with hyper threading, 8GB RAM, and GTX 980.) But it's certainly not brilliant. I've recently noticed some ugly LOD anomalies. I.e. I'm looking through a scope or binoculars for a few seconds and when I switch back to normal view it takes a second or more until the enivronment around me is properly rendered again. Similar for these small green plants popping up in front of me.

 

I'm okay with the performance on my 4770k @ 4.5 and 770 (4gb).

On Takistan my civilian scripts could spawn up to 300 civs all walking around doing stuff without fps dropping below 45-50.

On Tanoa this number goes down to 100-150, depending on where you are. So either Tanoa is more heavy on the GPU or it's the AI pathfinding that's hitting fps.

 

When using my view distance script (adjusts view and object distance to viewpoint when looking through scope/binocs, so you can see the entire map with rangefinders i.e.) I can notice these LOD anomalies too, especially with those huge factory buildings.

 

I hope the performance will go up quite a notch when upgrading to a 1080 and a 6850k later this year.

 

Cheers

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I'm okay with the performance on my 4770k @ 4.5 and 770 (4gb).

On Takistan my civilian scripts could spawn up to 300 civs all walking around doing stuff without fps dropping below 45-50.

On Tanoa this number goes down to 100-150, depending on where you are. So either Tanoa is more heavy on the GPU or it's the AI pathfinding that's hitting fps.

 

When using my view distance script (adjusts view and object distance to viewpoint when looking through scope/binocs, so you can see the entire map with rangefinders i.e.) I can notice these LOD anomalies too, especially with those huge factory buildings.

 

I hope the performance will go up quite a notch when upgrading to a 1080 and a 6850k later this year.

 

Cheers

 

I think it's my 3.4 Ghz (3.8 turbo) CPU that's limiting me. The GTX 980 rarely goes above 50% load and Arma 3 stays mostly below 2GB RAM usage. I really can't wait to see how future titles will utilise Enfusion. Hopefully, we can expect some better hardware usage.

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Regarding the locked door barriers; I don't think the one with the two boards propped against a door should be used inside a building. I can see it messing with alot of compositions. Padlocks would suffice in most cases. I also don't really get the sandbag one. Looks weird.

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