zverushka 0 Posted October 26, 2002 I'd like to see this article, placebo. I love it when people say things like this: "You know, those people did this this and that, see how bad they are? I think we should all flame this country." We need to give placebo a 24 hr. ban, and then lock this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-RoNiN 0 Posted October 26, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ Oct. 27 2002,00:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd like to see this article, placebo. I love it when people say things like this: "You know, those people did this this and that, see how bad they are? I think we should all flame this country." We need to give placebo a 24 hr. ban, and then lock this thread. <span id='postcolor'> Hang on a moment. From the article that Placebo mentioned: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The BBC's Stephen Eke in Moscow said at least nine hostages with breathing problems had since died, though the Interior Ministry blamed their deaths on pre-existing medical conditions. But another BBC correspondent in the Russian capital, Jonathan Charles, reports that doctors have not been told what kind of knock-out gas was used and so do not know what antidotes to administer to patients <span id='postcolor'> Article itself is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2364873.stm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pukko 0 Posted October 26, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Oct. 26 2002,23:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">about chechnya: it's just too bad that the russians don't try the US policy from after ww2. the allies utterly, totally destroyed german and japanese warmaking capabilities. but then they turned right around and helped those nations with lots of goodwill and money. they proved that allied warmaking, or the hatred war brings on, was not done from the heart. those nations are now (fairly) stable allies.<span id='postcolor'> Im sorry to go more offtopic, but I cant leave this comment out here (and this is not US bashing). *oh wait, when I read your post again I bacam unsure of what you meant by "from the heart"* Anyways this kind of includes also the solution of global terrorism. USA (and the western world in general, but USA is kind of the 'western führer' ) is, for right or wrong, blamed for much internationally. By making up with the rest of the world from the heart (like the pre coldwar USA was good at I recon), the terror threat will be gone in time. Its a process that will take decades, but in differance of war it has creative potential. I hope this was not too offtopic, or a flamebait; so that it wont ruin this thread.. peace Edit: added western world in general ofcourse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exodist 1 Posted October 26, 2002 No one hostiles died from GAS...Only bullets and "trouble with heart".... If you not move, not eat, not drink , 70 hours - you too be in bad condition... It's be good operation - terrorist have 30 charges (minimum - 2 kg. Maximum - 50kg - they EASY can destroy building and it's ~ 1000 deads ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pathfinder 0 Posted October 26, 2002 Wish I could find more news on the subject ,all the news here seems trained on the plane crash that killed a liberal. But I'm glad it's over, my thoughts our for the victims of this tragedy. The brave men of Alpha and other russian police forces at the scene should be awarded their countries highest medal. I originally thought when those apartment complexes of poor people were bombed awhile back it smelled rather fishy. I thought why target poor people to get your point across? But with the latest event I totally believe russia's enemy(not using the C word) to be evil incarnate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted October 26, 2002 The information is from Ceefax, this is a text service we get with our TV's so I doubt anyone outside England has access. Anyways it's page 106 of BBC's Ceefax, anyone else in the UK can confirm, I'll type out the item in its entirety....... </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">MOSCOW RAID SURVIVORS "POISONED BY GAS" About 350 survivors of the Moscow siege are in hospital, many being treated for Gas poisoning, officials have said. A doctor at Moscow's Sklifosovsky Hospital said 42 people had been admitted with poisoning from an unknown gas. "Their condition is poor", he said The gas had not killed any of the hostages, officials stressed. Doctors have expressed their outrage at the refusal of the Russian authorities to reveal what gas was used. <span id='postcolor'> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted October 26, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Exodist @ Oct. 27 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one hostiles died from GAS...Only bullets and "trouble with heart".... If you not move, not eat, not drink , 70 hours - you too be in bad condition... It's be good operation - terrorist have 30 charges (minimum - 2 kg. Maximum - 50kg  - they EASY can destroy building and it's ~ 1000 deads )<span id='postcolor'> you got any veidence ofr that and i'm well placed that EVERY chemical products used for this kind of duty has more or less important aftereffects Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zverushka 0 Posted October 26, 2002 OK, thx I see. stupid federales Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USMC Sniper 0 Posted October 26, 2002 Ran- pravda says that the terrorists had 30 to 50 kg of tnt. The gas was a good idea, what else should they have used? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Oct. 27 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ran- pravda says that the terrorists had 30 to 50 kg of tnt. The gas was a good idea, what else should they have used?<span id='postcolor'> I'm still weary of what Pravda says. Traditionally, Pravda=ne Pravda. However, I think using that gas is the only thing that stopped the terrorists from setting off the bombs. I do find it outragous though, that the authorities aren't saying what type of gas it was. I don't believe that it was nerve gas however, or anything meant to be lethal. What would be the point of the rescue operation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joltan 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Oct. 27 2002,00:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Exodist @ Oct. 27 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one hostiles died from GAS...Only bullets and "trouble with heart"....<span id='postcolor'> you got any veidence ofr that and i'm well placed that EVERY chemical products used for this kind of duty has more or less important aftereffects<span id='postcolor'> "Trouble with hearth"... as caused by a knock-out gas? Why do you (Exodist) think anestetics are adminstered by special trained medics in hospitals? Why do you think a complete anestetic (meaning non-local, as in a complete knock-out) is still considered a health risk, even if supervised and admistered by such a trained specialist? Knock-out gas - especially if used in high concentrations as needed to fill a wide open space as a theatre auditorium with a sufficiant concentration for everyone - can easily cause your heart or breathing to stop. If you don't know what agent was used, then it is very hard (and depending on what was actually used, it may well be impossible) to treat the victims of this gas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The information is from Ceefax, this is a text service we get with our TV's so I doubt anyone outside England has access.<span id='postcolor'> Believe it or not, but we also get it in Wales! On the gas front, the Russians have always had advanced gas/chemical weapon design. If they are refusing to give details on the gas, it's probably some exotic blend not used before, which they would like to keep quiet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zverushka 0 Posted October 27, 2002 Why the hell do you guys listen to Pravda? it's full of propaganda! try lenta.ru or ntv.ru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brgnorway 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (joltan @ Oct. 27 2002,03<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Oct. 27 2002,00:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Exodist @ Oct. 27 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one hostiles died from GAS...Only bullets and "trouble with heart"....<span id='postcolor'> you got any veidence ofr that and i'm well placed that EVERY chemical products used for this kind of duty has more or less important aftereffects<span id='postcolor'> "Trouble with hearth"... as caused by a knock-out gas? Why do you (Exodist) think anestetics are adminstered by special trained medics in hospitals? Why do you think a complete anestetic (meaning non-local, as in a complete knock-out) is still considered a health risk, even if supervised and admistered by such a trained specialist? Knock-out gas - especially if used in high concentrations as needed to fill a wide open space as a theatre auditorium with a sufficiant concentration for everyone - can easily cause your heart or breathing to stop. If you don't know what agent was used, then it is very hard (and depending on what was actually used, it may well be impossible) to treat the victims of this gas.<span id='postcolor'> This is right! On the news earlier today (NRK 1) a doctor said almost exactly the same. He also said that when people lose consciousness it's very important to make sure the person can breathe properly. If people pass out with their head resting on their chest for example they are bound to choke and die. But ensuring people are laid down on the ground sideways (see link) with their head resting on their arm is of course impossible while you are spraying bullets all over the place. http://www.akuttmedisin.uib.no/gjenopp....eie.htm By the way, about ceefax - could it be what we in Norway call Text TV (news, TV programme, adds etc) because with a push on a button on my remote control I can find out whats on BBC World/Prime and so on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Frag 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (joltan @ Oct. 26 2002,19:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip> "Trouble with hearth"... as caused by a knock-out gas? Why do you (Exodist) think anestetics are adminstered by special trained medics in hospitals? Why do you think a complete anestetic (meaning non-local, as in a complete knock-out) is still considered a health risk, even if supervised and admistered by such a trained specialist? </Snip><span id='postcolor'> It's no coincidence that anesthesiologists have the highest malpractice insurance premiums of any medical profession -- higher than heart surgeons, higher than orthopeadic surgeons, and higher than cosmetic surgeons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (pathfinder @ Oct. 27 2002,00:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">all the news here seems trained on the plane crash that killed a liberal.<span id='postcolor'> You mean "United States Senator". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Oct. 27 2002,02:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The information is from Ceefax, this is a text service we get with our TV's so I doubt anyone outside England has access.<span id='postcolor'> Believe it or not, but we also get it in Wales!<span id='postcolor'> Cool I didn't know Ceefax worked abroad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted October 27, 2002 Well, as far as I know all hostages were in very bad condition before assault begun due to lack of food, water, and sleep. The gas probably doesn't help them in their recovery now, but at least they still have a chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Oct. 27 2002,03:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Oct. 27 2002,02:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The information is from Ceefax, this is a text service we get with our TV's so I doubt anyone outside England has access.<span id='postcolor'> Believe it or not, but we also get it in Wales!<span id='postcolor'> Cool I didn't know Ceefax worked abroad <span id='postcolor'> It just seems like the Welsh are from a different planet..er..country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted October 27, 2002 I keep getting fed-up with foreigners refering to Britian as 'England'. You two bastards should know better! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted October 27, 2002 As for 'Teletext', I do believe its available over most of Europe. I know they don't have it in the US, as I only got confused replies when I asked the hotel if they had a TV with Teletext. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mister Frag 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Oct. 26 2002,21:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for 'Teletext', I do believe its available over most of Europe. I know they don't have it in the US, as I only got confused replies when I asked the hotel if they had a TV with Teletext.<span id='postcolor'> Nah, we prefer high-speed Internet access. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted October 27, 2002 Aha! I get 512 access for Å5 a month! Woohoo! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted October 27, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Oct. 27 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ran- pravda says that the terrorists had 30 to 50 kg of tnt. The gas was a good idea, what else should they have used?<span id='postcolor'> the gas yes .. but what kind of gas ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted October 27, 2002 According to the Beeb it was possibly some secret Valium derivative Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
