Hostage situation in moscow ended

[USMC Sniper 0]

I know that other thread was closed, but considering how many have died in the event, I think that a new thread should be made.

Here is a link: MSN

And people, PLEASE DO NOT TALK ABOUT CHECHNYA, SINCE IT STARTS A FLAME WAR!!!!!!!

[USMC Sniper 0]

One strange thing: some of us suggested that the Russians should use gas to knock out everyone in the building. Guess what: that's exactly what they did!

[bn880 5]

Well, I think the Russians did the right thing. I don't think waiting any longer was going to help the number of survivors.

Now considering the number of hostage takers, their preparation, and the number of hostages, I think the operation went very well.

(Chechnya will probably come up in this, I think it has to, just flaming has to be controlled)

[USMC Sniper 0]

I also think they executed the right way, since it was someone else and me who suggested to use paralyzing/knock-out gas! Is it possible that there were Russian special forces looking at the forum? lol

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Oct. 26 2002,13:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also think they executed the right way, since it was someone else and me who suggested to use paralyzing/knock-out gas! Is it possible that there were Russian special forces looking at the forum? lol<span id='postcolor'>

Pretty funny...

whatch out, if you take creadit for the success, then you will have to take credit for the failures

[Chronicles 0]

May all the innocents assassinated by the terrorists rest in peace.

I pray God to bless them

Thanks to the russian forces for ending this nightmare and saving the hostages, they have done the right thing.

[Tovarish 0]

Remember what started the firefight: Hostages were being executed and then a group of them made a run for it. The Russians had no choice but to provide them with cover fire and storm the building ASAP. If not, the Chechens would have been shooting fish in a barrel, and the building would have surely been blown up. Last I've heard death toll was 90 hostages, 50 terrorists, 3 terrorists captured and minor injuries amongst Alpha team. It could have been a lot worse.

PS. If I remember  correctly, the idea of using knockout gas during a siege is an old one. Chicago police used it during standoffs with mobsters, and the Germans considered it during the 1972 Olympics hostage taking. The Germans decided against it

[FSPilot 0]

terrorists = stupid

"maybe if we kill people they'll stop kiling people!"

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Oct. 26 2002,13:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Remember what started the firefight: Hostages were being executed and then a group of them made a run for it. The Russians had no choice but to provide them with cover fire and storm the building ASAP. If not, the Chechens would have been shooting fish in a barrel, and the building would have surely been blown up. Last I've heard death toll was 90 hostages, 50 terrorists, 3 terrorists captured and minor injuries amongst Alpha team. It could have been a lot worse.

PS. If I remember correctly, the idea of using knockout gas during a siege is an old one. Chicago police used it during standoffs with mobsters, and the Germans considered it during the 1972 Olympics hostage taking. The Germans decided against it <span id='postcolor'>

The Russians decided to go in based on certain criteria, which was met when the hostage takers started executing hostages. The choice was to watch as they executed a couple more. Hostage takers were not ready to kill everyone yet, even though some hostages escaped.

Gas is and was sometimes used in hostage rescue operations... of course.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Using gas was correct! We dont really know how much it helped. THis gas has a certain smell that can be detected. How did the military know they had no gas-masks? (I guess they didnt)

On the other way the russians immediately after the ending of the hostage-taking began a huge offensive against Chechnia again. Striving for revenge? Need to slap someone? someone, no matter if responsible or not?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Oct. 26 2002,13:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Using gas was correct! We dont really know how much it helped. THis gas has a certain smell that can be detected. How did the military know they had no gas-masks? (I guess they didnt)<span id='postcolor'>

They actually were pretty certain that the hostage takers were not wearing gas masks, that's why I suggested the gas.

EDIT: How? Hostages using cell phones and journalist videos...

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 26 2002,19:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Russians decided to go in based on certain criteria, which was met when the hostage takers started executing hostages.  The choice was to watch as they executed a couple more.  Hostage takers were not ready to kill everyone yet, even though some hostages escaped.<span id='postcolor'>

That had been the plan since last night yes, but they had to act quicker than they may have wanted to, since the hostages obviously stopped cooperating after the first executions:

From CNN:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A Russian official said the rebels had started shooting their hostages before the raid.

After the two hostages were killed several hostages attempted to escape and came under fire from the rebels.

At this point, the Russian official said, special forces troops opened fire to aid the escaping hostages and the full-scale assault on the theatre followed.

<span id='postcolor'>

From CBC:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A Bulgarian man from Toronto also survived. Vesselin Nedkov, 28, is recovering in a Moscow hospital.

Nicolas Nedkov told CBC Newsworld he spoke to his brother and learned he is in good condition, although feeling exhausted after three days with no food or water.

Nedkov said his brother confirmed reports that some of the hostages tried to fight their captors after the rebels said no one would get out alive.

<span id='postcolor'>

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Oct. 26 2002,19:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On the other way the russians immediately after the ending of the hostage-taking began a huge offensive against Chechnia again. Striving for revenge? Need to slap someone? someone, no matter if responsible or not?<span id='postcolor'>

I would respond to that Albert, but I'll respect the wishes of USMC Sniper, who started this thread. No discussion about Checnya

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Oct. 26 2002,13:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 26 2002,19:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Russians decided to go in based on certain criteria, which was met when the hostage takers started executing hostages. The choice was to watch as they executed a couple more. Hostage takers were not ready to kill everyone yet, even though some hostages escaped.<span id='postcolor'>

That had been the plan since last night yes, but they had to act quicker than they may have wanted to, since the hostages obviously stopped cooperating after the first executions:<span id='postcolor'>

YES, the point that matters is that the plan was to go in, and go in they did. Unfortunately if everything went as planned maybe only 1/2 casualties.

On average the hostage takers were capable of killing 2 people each before being stopped, which is extremely good considering they were on full alert and prepared to kill before the HR operation started.

This means the Russians did a pretty good job, and respect to the hostages for having the courage to do somehting in unisom.

[akm74 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On the other way the russians immediately after the ending of the hostage-taking began a huge offensive against Chechnia again. Striving for revenge? Need to slap someone? someone, no matter if responsible or not? <span id='postcolor'>

Admins, next time just ban peoples with stupid post. raser then close the topic.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AKM74 @ Oct. 26 2002,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Admins, next time just ban peoples with stupid post. raser then close the topic.<span id='postcolor'>

now now, let's not start slinging mud, everyone stake a step back and calm down, vce uspokoites . This is another way flamewars start.

[Cloney 0]

Sounds like they needed Team Rainbow for this one.

"Alpha GO!"

"Bravo GO!"

Tango Down!

30 secs later all T's are dead because of excessive l337ness on Rainbow's side. Actually I think there was a theatre mission in Rouge Spear.

[USMC Sniper 0]

LOL, I remeber the Rogue Spear demo, you call out for the teams to rescue the governor, and like 20 seconds later the mission was complete. lets not go off topic though.

[zverushka 0]

Hehe, i was thinking that RAINBOW should've went in too. Remember that scene in rainbow six with the amusement park?

leet man. ;D

[PitViper 0]

well.. this turned out much better than I thought it was going to.  Congrats to the Russians.  Send those terrorists to their graves.

There could have very easily been 750 dead hostages and a sindering pile of junk where the theater once stood.

[Sam Samson 0]

while I agree that the gas solution was a good, creative one, I heard that some news folks now blame the aggressive qualities of the GAS in use for some of the 90 dead.

would be awful.

I still commend the russian cracks for their swift maneuver though.

about chechnya:

it's just too bad that the russians don't try the US policy from after ww2.

the allies utterly, totally destroyed german and japanese warmaking capabilities. but then they turned right around and helped those nations with lots of goodwill and money.

they proved that allied warmaking, or the hatred war brings on, was not done from the heart. those nations are now (fairly) stable allies.

maybe even chechnya has ally potential.

leaving it to the wahhabi-moslems is not really a choice. or is it? I say: russia, help them back up onto their feet after you annihilated their terrorist guerrilla fighters. don't mess with their civilians. rather endear them to you somehow.

how's that for strategy?

[Necromancer- 0]

the Russians dont have the money.

[Placebo 28]

According to BBC news many hostages are in a poor condition in hospital due to the gas, the military is refusing to say what type of gas was used so the doctors cannot treat them, how fucked up is that?

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Oct. 26 2002,23:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">According to BBC news many hostages are in a poor condition in hospital due to the gas, the military is refusing to say what type of gas was used so the doctors cannot treat them, how fucked up is that?<span id='postcolor'>

In Swedish television they broadcast a short interview with a Moscow doctor who told what you are saying; that the hostages are all in a bad condition.

He finished his sentence with:

I think they used nervegas....

[fraggit 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Oct. 26 2002,15:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">while I agree that the gas solution was a good, creative one, I heard that some news folks now blame the aggressive qualities of the GAS in use for some of the 90 dead.

would be awful.

I still commend the russian cracks for their swift maneuver though.

about chechnya:

it's just too bad that the russians don't try the US policy from after ww2.

the allies utterly, totally destroyed german and japanese warmaking capabilities. but then they turned right around and helped those nations with lots of goodwill and money.

they proved that allied warmaking, or the hatred war brings on, was not done from the heart. those nations are now (fairly) stable allies.

maybe even chechnya has ally potential.

leaving it to the wahhabi-moslems is not really a choice. or is it? I say: russia, help them back up onto their feet after you annihilated their terrorist guerrilla fighters. don't mess with their civilians. rather endear them to you somehow.

how's that for strategy?<span id='postcolor'>

For once I agree with you Sam.