Hostage situation in moscow ended

[Goodspeed 0]

Look at the facts. It is not necessary to give value to that ugly analytics from the pro govemment mass-media. In this building was more than 850 hostages. As result of clearing it has been killed 117 person. This figure is not comparable in any way to loss of everything, 850 citizens.

I was at this theatre. I saw this building. It VERY big. In such conditions NON-USE of special gas would be the BIG mistake. All would be lost.

And please, it is not necessary to make the clever face and criticize actions of special divisions. They have made the work and have made it well. We were not there and NOT to us to criticize actions of professionals.

Perusal CNN, Reuters and other western editions causes in me the big bewilderment. All of them till now name terrorists - rebels and guerillas. Even after execution of innocent citizens they are continue to do it. This very indicative relation to Russia. It also forms your opinion about Russia, therefore I see such messages here.

BTW Russian mass-media never made comments on tragedy on September, 11 as result of fighters for freedom actions.

[akm74 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW Russian mass-media never made comments on tragedy on September, 11 as result of fighters for freedom actions. <span id='postcolor'>

There was an interview with general Oliver North (very respected general in US) on ABC 3 days ago. 10 hours before the storm. And the reporter asks him what he thinks about event in Moscow and about Chechen rebels in general.

General: First, there are not Chechen rebels, they are Islamic terrorist….

1 minutes later. Same interview.

Journalist. So what you think Russia have to do with this Rebels?

General: Ones again. THEY ARE NOT A REBELS, They are Islamic fanatic terrorists…

1 minute after interview gournalist back to news even.

Journalist: Now we back to situation in Moscow. Chechen…still hold…bla bla bla.

Guess how he calls them again? They never learn, are they?

[Satchel 0]

The point is gas in this form has never been used in a hostage rescue operation worldwide, for a reason obviously, therefore no experience existed if it would work in such a situation at all, thus putting everyone at unnecessary risks, especially as a theatre hall is no surgery room or other comparable small containment, and people of lots of different constitutions were present.

If you ever underwent a surgery, you sure remember that the narcotic gets custom tailored to your physis, they do not use to little nor too much, it´s a science in itself. In the theatre however the gas needed to affect everyone and-fast, the 300 pound terrorist as well as the 100 pound women carrying the bomb, fast enough that terrorists do not become suspicous and put on their gasmasks or detonate the bombs....that´s like you are stating, i´m sure gonna make it through that 70° curve with 160 mp/h, although you never did it before and drive a car for the first time, the risks are simply not calculable anymore.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goodspeed @ Oct. 28 2002,13:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Look at the facts. It is not necessary to give value to that ugly analytics from the pro govemment mass-media. In this building was more than 850 hostages. As result of clearing it has been killed 117 person. This figure is not comparable in any way to loss of everything, 850 citizens.

I was at this theatre. I saw this building. It VERY big. In such conditions NON-USE of special gas would be the BIG mistake.  All would be lost.

And please, it is not necessary to make the clever face and criticize actions of special divisions. They have made the work and have made it well. We were not there and NOT to us to criticize actions of professionals.

Perusal CNN, Reuters and other western editions causes in me the big bewilderment. All of them till now name terrorists - rebels and guerillas. Even after execution of innocent citizens they are continue to do it. This very indicative relation to Russia.  It also forms your opinion about Russia, therefore I see such messages here.

BTW Russian mass-media never made comments on tragedy on September, 11 as result of fighters for freedom actions.<span id='postcolor'>

It has nothing to do with you being Russian. it has to do with the network being run by people who believe in moral-equivalency.

[Mister Frag 0]

Regarding the type of gas that was used, I just saw this:

From http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,66886,00.html

Russia Raid Gas Said Opium Derivative

Monday, October 28, 2002

WASHINGTON — The mysterious gas Russian forces pumped into a theater to end a hostage crisis was an opiate — a chemical related to morphine, Pentagon officials said Monday.

The Bush administration, meanwhile, refused to criticize Russian special forces for using the gas, which killed 116 of the hostages as well as the hostage takers.

"The president abhors the loss of life, but he understands that it is the terrorists" who are responsible for the tragedy, Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer said Monday as the president traveled to New Mexico.

Military officials said the U.S. embassy in Moscow had determined that the gas used by the Russians was some sort of opium derivative. Such substances not only kill pain and dull the senses but also can cause coma and death by shutting down breathing and circulation.

Russian authorities have refused to name the substance used, even keeping that information from doctors treating the rescued hostages.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said the United States, as well as other countries, have asked the Russians to identify the gas they used.

"We are trying to get at that information," Boucher said. "That knowledge is also needed by the doctors. We're awaiting (the) response, but at this point, we just don't have the response."

Fleischer did not endorse the tactic in remarks to reporters as Bush flew from Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, to Phoenix, then from Arizona to New Mexico. But he made clear the administration's view that blame for the deaths lay with the captors.

Asked directly about the use of the gas, Fleischer wouldn't say whether the administration believed it was appropriate. "We don't know what all the facts are," he said.

But, he said, "As that information is developed, the president feels very strongly that the people who caused this are the terrorists."

Bush had not spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin as of Sunday evening, Fleischer said.

Fleischer said the United States still is unsure how many Americans were involved in the siege but blamed that on the difficulty of keeping track of traveling Americans and not on the Russian government.

The measured White House reaction comes as Bush seeks Russia's support for a tough resolution in the United Nations on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

In Moscow, a U.S. consular officer visited an American survivor of the theater hostage crisis, a State Department official said.

The identity of the female patient was not released for privacy reasons, the official said. Although she was hospitalized, the official said she was not injured.

"We are still continuing to determine the whereabouts of possibly one or two other Americans," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Russian special forces troopers ended the 2-day takeover before dawn Saturday with a raid on the theater shortly before the hostage-takers, rebels from Russia's embattled Chechnya region, had threatened to begin killing their more than 800 captives.

The Moscow Health Department said 405 former hostages, including nine children, remained hospitalized Monday after 239 were released. At least 45 remained in grave condition Monday, Deputy Prime Minister Valentina Matviyenko said Monday.

All but two of the 118 hostages known to be dead were killed by the gas, not their captors. The 50 Chechen rebels holding the hostages also were killed, either by the gas or by gunshots as security services stormed the theater.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AKM74 @ Oct. 28 2002,20:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There was an interview with general Oliver North  (very respected general in US) on ABC 3 days ago. 10 hours before the storm.<span id='postcolor'>

Just nitpicking, but North was a Lieutenant Colonel. As for being well-respected, I suppose that depends on who you ask.

On a tangent, this hurts the "knock-out gas on airplanes to disable hijackers" idea, huh?

Semper Fi

[akm74 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for being well-respected, I suppose that depends on who you ask<span id='postcolor'>

true (no one in the world has 100% support), but this not the point. If you aslo did watch this interview, you can proof my words.