Zee - M107 - announcement

[sttosin 67]

Okay, thanks for that info Wilco! :D

Okay so If i do manage to get someone on board who can configure ammo, would you like some visual pointer as to what ammo you are using? so say like, green tape around the mag for Raufoss Mk211 and so on? it may break immersion a little but i think it would be a nice visual touch.

what say you?

@Mikey74 actually made some explosive rounds for a sniper riffle sometime last year for his Airborne units.

[war_lord 934]

It's more of an Armour Piercing round then an Explosive Round, it works like a shaped charge, if you hit a person with it, unless they're wearing something hard, the round will rip through them and end up exploding after it exits the body. Actual frag bullets would be of extremely dubious legality in war. The idea of the round is that the Bullet hits the armour, which sets off an Incendiary mix in the tip of the bullet, which triggers the explosive, which blows a hole for the steel core to penetrate.   

[gatordev 216]

It's more of an Armour Piercing round then an Explosive Round, it works like a shaped charge, if you hit a person with it, unless they're wearing something hard, the round will rip through them and end up exploding after it exits the body. Actual frag bullets would be of extremely dubious legality in war. The idea of the round is that the Bullet hits the armour, which sets off an Incendiary mix in the tip of the bullet, which triggers the explosive, which blows a hole for the steel core to penetrate.   

 

I'm not real smart on which is considered an "explosive round" or which is a frag round (and I don't mean to be arguing for or against what you're saying, war_lord), but API is used every day.  Whichever one it's considered, it's a realistic round, assuming Zee can have some config help.

 

I think some of us remember BAS having their "explosive round" ammo for their Barrett back in OFP days, and that's where the term comes from.  It was a way to differentiate the AP round from the API round in-game.  The API round in the real world will catch soft targets on fire (or cause a propane tank to ignite on a target, for example), so it looks spectacular, but it doesn't actually "blow up," if that makes sense.  But I understand that's hard to simulate in-game.

[bakerman 247]

Okay, thanks for that info Wilco! :D 

Okay so If i do manage to get someone on board who can configure ammo, would you like some visual pointer as to what ammo you are using? so say like, green tape around the mag for Raufoss Mk211 and so on? it may break immersion a little but i think it would be a nice visual touch. 

what say you?

 

Feel free to use the M33 and Mk211 ammo configs from you know where. I configured both specifically for the M107.

[zeealex 2029]

Oh hey bakerman! Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate it! I'll check them out :)

[war_lord 934]

I'm not real smart on which is considered an "explosive round" or which is a frag round (and I don't mean to be arguing for or against what you're saying, war_lord), but API is used every day.  Whichever one it's considered, it's a realistic round, assuming Zee can have some config help.

 

I think some of us remember BAS having their "explosive round" ammo for their Barrett back in OFP days, and that's where the term comes from.  It was a way to differentiate the AP round from the API round in-game.  The API round in the real world will catch soft targets on fire (or cause a propane tank to ignite on a target, for example), so it looks spectacular, but it doesn't actually "blow up," if that makes sense.  But I understand that's hard to simulate in-game.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, if an Mk211 hits something, you get a little fireball from the Incendiary mix going up, but it's not an explosion, you're not going to get any significant splash damage unless goes off in something that does have fragmentation potential, like a wall, or a human rib cage. The difference between Mk211 and traditional API, is that API is much more likely to explode upon hitting any any target, making using it against human targets of dubious legality. Whereas Mk211 is a multipurpose round, the actual explosion will usually happen after the round has gone through a soft target, it won't explode till it meets a certain amount of resistance. Ideally the skin of a vehicle.          

It's 100% realistic to have it, I'm just concerned it will be incorrectly portrayed as an explosive round when it's more akin to a very small anti-tank rocket. Can Arma 3 portray that given it's somewhat lacking portrayal of what actually goes on when a round hits something?   

[war_lord 934]

For reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpddudQaebI


The actual hole in the Steel Plate is rather unimpressive, but the Tungsten core then went on to bore a hole in the boulder behind it.   

[gatordev 216]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, if an Mk211 hits something, you get a little fireball from the Incendiary mix going up, but it's not an explosion, you're not going to get any significant splash damage unless goes off in something that does have fragmentation potential, like a wall, or a human rib cage. The difference between Mk211 and traditional API, is that API is much more likely to explode upon hitting any any target, making using it against human targets of dubious legality. Whereas Mk211 is a multipurpose round, the actual explosion will usually happen after the round has gone through a soft target, it won't explode till it meets a certain amount of resistance. Ideally the skin of a vehicle.          

It's 100% realistic to have it, I'm just concerned it will be incorrectly portrayed as an explosive round when it's more akin to a very small anti-tank rocket. Can Arma 3 portray that given it's somewhat lacking portrayal of what actually goes on when a round hits something?   

 

Gotcha.  So I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what the difference is between MK211 and what we currently use (M8 API...and then M20 APIT for the tracer).  But when you say that "traditional API.....of dubious legality...", I don't think that's an accurate statement.  We operate with M8 API all day long.  I just don't have the two NALCs (if they are different) between MK211 and our M8 API to know a) if they  are different, and b) if they are, to be able to prove it to you.

 

At the end of the day, I think we're agreeing that an API round isn't unrealistic, and given the limitations of the game engine, may appear like an "explosive round," even though that's not the most accurate statement.

[war_lord 934]

They're very different. M8 is actually fine for anti-personal use I think, because it isn't explosive. Basically, some members of NATO are party to a treaty which bans expanding or exploding bullets for anti-personnel use.  The United States isn't bound to that but they follow it for logistical reasons. The reason Raufoss is okayed is that it usually doesn't explode inside humans.   

[gatordev 216]

Yeah, I understood why, but didn't understand the physical internal difference between M8 and the other round.  That diagram makes it click.  Thanks.

 

 

M8 is actually fine for anti-personal use I think...

 

Yup, perfectly fine.  We deploy with it as a regular load out.

[zeealex 2029]

shameless teaser is shameless

[Von Quest 1161]

Looks great.

Also very interested in the DSR Rifle. A mid-range marksmen is the sweet spot for the ArmA Engine.

[zeealex 2029]

yep, the DSR is game ready as of now, I just need misty to be a babe and config for me, poor guy's been real busy lately.

confirmed weapons are the M107 and DSR at present. :)

[jaaxxxxon 140]

Looks beautiful! :DDD A few questions though:
What's the DSR chambered in? 7.62? 300wm? 338LM?
Also will the DSR and the M107 be in the same PBO, or will they be standalone?
Also, do you plan on making them compatible with ACE3's advanced ballistics, or at least having the information needed available?
Keep up the good work, these look amazing :D

[shomu1 193]

Any word on the M107A1?  Just curious.

[zeealex 2029]

Looks beautiful! :DDD A few questions though:

What's the DSR chambered in? 7.62? 300wm? 338LM?

Also will the DSR and the M107 be in the same PBO, or will they be standalone?

Also, do you plan on making them compatible with ACE3's advanced ballistics, or at least having the information needed available?

Keep up the good work, these look amazing :D

Hey, thanks for the kind words, it'll most likely be .308 winchester, and I've definitely planned compatibility with ACE ballistics as I think it would be a fab idea, but realistically, I'd need to talk to Mistyronin about making that happen.

 Modularizing the weapons into seperate PBO's is a possibility but it's whether its something you guys would like, and whether it's feasible. but some people might want the M107 without the DSR and the more stuff I wanna add, the bigger its getting and conflicts with RHS might occur so it is something i'll look into. 

@Shomu, M107A1 is planned. but I've not done anything on it yet due to high college workload, but that gets submitted tomorrow, so happy days. :P

 

[James_Fritz 14]

These models looks absolutely AMAZING! I really hope they perform as well as they look. Keep up the awesome work and can't wait to try them. 

[Eagle1992 373]

Hey, thanks for the kind words, it'll most likely be .308 winchester, and I've definitely planned compatibility with ACE ballistics as I think it would be a fab idea, but realistically, I'd need to talk to Mistyronin about making that happen.

 

 

The Guns are really looking great.

 

But isn't 308 win. considered a pretty Outdated Round for Sniper or Precision Rifles?

I would suggest something like 300 Winchester or 338.

[zeealex 2029]

Thanks both!

I'll chamber the DSR in .300 then :P

In other news, the M107 is available in RHS:USAF as of NOW as soon as you update, go play! In the meantime I shall be sat here working on making the shameless teaser a reality :D

[cosmic10r 2327]

Is that delicious Premier Heritage scope contained in today's 4.0.1 RHS update Zee?

[ineptaphid 6413]

Thanks both!

I'll chamber the DSR in .300 then :P

In other news, the M107 is available in RHS:USAF as of NOW as soon as you update, go play! In the meantime I shall be sat here working on making the shameless teaser a reality :D

The M107 is in the update as well? I think that update is the best I have ever seen-so much stuff.I must read the full changelog now. thanks for your work on it mate-cant wait to pop some heads from 2 towns away ;)

[cosmic10r 2327]

The Guns are really looking great.

 

But isn't 308 win. considered a pretty Outdated Round for Sniper or Precision Rifles?

I would suggest something like 300 Winchester or 338.

It's not an outdated round as such, the larger calibers retain more kinetic impact and have a flatter trajectory. Engagements were taking place at much larger distances and it was simply a fact of mission requirements

[zeealex 2029]

The M107 is in the update as well? I think that update is the best I have ever seen-so much stuff.I must read the full changelog now. thanks for your work on it mate-cant wait to pop some heads from 2 towns away ;)

yep, yep yeppity yep she's there :D thanks dude, I hope you enjoy it :)

 

Is that delicious Premier Heritage scope contained in today's 4.0.1 RHS update Zee?

of course, My baby isn't complete without her scope! It's named "M8451A SSDS" as that's its official USMC designation. 

there's also a night ops version with an AN/PVS27 as well :)

[keeway 287]

Great work zeealex, also that would be nice if you can add some camo textures for scopes :)

[cosmic10r 2327]

yep, yep yeppity yep she's there :D thanks dude, I hope you enjoy it :)

 

of course, My baby isn't complete without her scope! It's named "M8451A SSDS" as that's its official USMC designation. 

there's also a night ops version with an AN/PVS27 as well :)

Well I'm geeking out over here now...

I know what I'm doing when I get home

Thanks Zee!!!!