[WIP] Female base model project

[Macser 776]

Lookin good.

 

Although I don't usually do this kind of thing, I did a quick overlay to point out some suggestions about the facial structure. From what I know of you, you're open to constructive comments. Which is the only reason I even considered making the post.

 

 

I made the chin area a little wider. The bridge of the nose too. Slightly reduced the width of the mouth. And lifted the cheeks a bit. Not in an attempt to beautify. More about proportions. It's only personal opinion, of course. Not instructional. :)

 

Obviously I worked over a mesh that was animated. So maybe the things i pointed out were in some part due to deformation and weighting. Take that into consideration. And keep up the great work.

[HorribleGoat 1468]

awesomesauce.

Thanks man! I'll definitely heed what you say when I start refining the model. Im aware the texture and mesh lacks a lot of finess and I intend to continue working on it and you do have good points there. 

I winged the facial expressions in the render and I bet the scaled down Arma head rig does not fit the head quite properly. :D But its a start since I've go no clue what I need for the Arma's facial expression to work.

What I got here is enough for a development kit release so that others can help out with animations and start their own uniforms and whatnot in the same scale, but there's long way before I could call her finished. 

[3D_vet 29]

yep, once it is released, each one can his own modifications, and if desired, post as well these modifications, in case others can make use of them. Which, IMHO, can be of any kind: Modeling, texturing, animation...

 

What I am more worried about is... :" I've go no clue what I need for the Arma's facial expression to work."  Does this means that there is not going to match anything animated in the face in-game, or/and, that the applied facial animations are deforming in a weird way her face mesh ?  

 

IMHO is no problem to improve a base mesh and/or texture, uvmaps... is more of a problem if the anims or bones do not match with the game, somehow...

[3D_vet 29]

If it means that simply there's no way to animate the face, we can still leave it non animated, yet in good shape, etc. Still, the uber cool thing woul dbe to have at least the face bones that there are in Arma. (cause I'm supposing is bones, not vertex morphings or shaders animations, etc)

[HorribleGoat 1468]

yep, once it is released, each one can his own modifications, and if desired, post as well these modifications, in case others can make use of them. Which, IMHO, can be of any kind: Modeling, texturing, animation...

 

What I am more worried about is... :" I've go no clue what I need for the Arma's facial expression to work."  Does this means that there is not going to match anything animated in the face in-game, or/and, that the applied facial animations are deforming in a weird way her face mesh ?  

 

IMHO is no problem to improve a base mesh and/or texture, uvmaps... is more of a problem if the anims or bones do not match with the game, somehow...

The rig setup has the same bones and is rigged the same way the Man head is, but the rig is also scaled down a bit since the head slightly smaller ==  means that if facial animations work as the rest of the animations in Arma it is a high chance that man facial gestures will distort the edited head skeleton. Have not really delved into the matter at all and simply do not know yet.

 

 

If it means that simply there's no way to animate the face, we can still leave it non animated, yet in good shape, etc. Still, the uber cool thing woul dbe to have at least the face bones that there are in Arma. (cause I'm supposing is bones, not vertex morphings or shaders animations, etc)

An option for sure and most likely how it will be for start if theres distortion. :D I will set the whole thing so that the head is its own separate model as with the Armaman and it will be rigged with weights copied from the man head, but thats as far as I've not had time to get it and beyond that there are lots of unknowns to be discovered regarding how it actually works in arma.

[Valken 622]

Wow... this is really cool and I have a few comments:

 

Can you work with Zeealex on the heads? Her mod IdentiZee already has really good female heads. I figure it can save you work by collaborating.

 

Also, are the proportions correct? Most of the time when I see both sexes of the same height standing next to each other, it feels the female's waistline is higher than a male's. Meaning her legs are proportionally longer than her torso. I believe the correct ration was 1 2.5 3.5:

 

 

 

Overall great model as I had been using Schnapsdrosel's Female Soldier in Arma 2 and in Arma 3 with AiA before the updates.

 

Great to finally see balanced genders and perhaps we can have "child" size models in the future. Would be a total psychological dilemna during a rescue or offensive operation with other than just "males" in the population or can be the most gruesome child demons for updated horror mods!

[3D_vet 29]

Having studied drawing of the human figure for long, while drawing a freakin' whole life :D, I can tell you canons vary a lot from person to person (ask Leonardo...well, if anyone could)... In video games in some companies they require the "heroic" proportions, of 8, 9 heads... as they seem so like taller...

 

Some women have very long torso, some others long legs... Anyway, true that ideal would be crotch in the middle, but imho, no biggie, as humans are not that standardized.   Indeed, if anything, the correct canon for the men too is 7,5 heads, with th eone at crotch also in the middle, and the typical 1,85 guy I think is closer to the 8 heads.

 

About heads... I'd rather prefer just released as is, I and other can have our take on the heads (and perhaps you would be satisfied.... ;)   )

 

My vote for a release of it only caring for the bones, skeleton, weights, matching with Arma 3 system. Which sems is pretty well addressed, now...The community will take care of details, or variations, later, my 2c.... (ie, ppl like me)

[3D_vet 29]

The rig setup has the same bones and is rigged the same way the Man head is, but the rig is also scaled down a bit since the head slightly smaller ==  means that if facial animations work as the rest of the animations in Arma it is a high chance that man facial gestures will distort the edited head skeleton. Have not really delved into the matter at all and simply do not know yet.

 

 

An option for sure and most likely how it will be for start if theres distortion. :D I will set the whole thing so that the head is its own separate model as with the Armaman and it will be rigged with weights copied from the man head, but thats as far as I've not had time to get it and beyond that there are lots of unknowns to be discovered regarding how it actually works in arma.

Please, excuse my total ignorance of the engine... I don't have the game... Is there some tool which I coul duse to test how it'd be seen after an export? Like, to go my self back and force teaking-checking in the tool who'd simulate the 3d view as in-game. Unreal had this, and some other game, but I dunno about Arma 3...

[Macser 776]

I think the Cfgmimics class is still being used. I saw a reference to it in the wiki. Although there's no actual entry for it. Cfgmimics is where the autonomous expressions are defined. The ones the AI use depending on the situation. Happy, sad, angry etc. Each expression has entries for selections in the head and the values that move them. They never relied on rtms as far as I know, being procedurally generated from the config.

 

I doubt that's changed. I'm not sure how they're handled in A3 though. Unless there are specific memory points for them to use as axes, they most likely still translate from their rest positions instead of rotating. So your current selections and weighting might work as is. You'll know soon enough I suppose. :)

[HorribleGoat 1468]

Wow... this is really cool and I have a few comments:

 

Can you work with Zeealex on the heads? Her mod IdentiZee already has really good female heads. I figure it can save you work by collaborating.

 

Also, are the proportions correct? Most of the time when I see both sexes of the same height standing next to each other, it feels the female's waistline is higher than a male's. Meaning her legs are proportionally longer than her torso. I believe the correct ration was 1 2.5 3.5:

 

 *snip*

 

Overall great model as I had been using Schnapsdrosel's Female Soldier in Arma 2 and in Arma 3 with AiA before the updates.

 

Great to finally see balanced genders and perhaps we can have "child" size models in the future. Would be a total psychological dilemna during a rescue or offensive operation with other than just "males" in the population or can be the most gruesome child demons for updated horror mods!

Excellent question though the answer might be dissapointing The model is purely based on Arma 2 female characters and their size in order to test if the A2 animations would work (which they do). Thus I cannot say if the proportions are correct in the way you've posted as I really have not thought about it. The skeleton probably could accommodate some mesh variations in leg/torso proportions but can't guarantee it.

As for Zees heads, they are indeed great and in time a collaboration might be in order, but for now I've wanted to tinker with all of it by myself as a learning experience. :9 Nothing really stops from using her heads in any characters based on my work since they will be proxies just like any other heads in Arma and the body mesh can be quite easily altered to fit her head on it too.

Child characters in war games have been a tabu for a long time and I am reluctant to touch the issue. It is possible yes and would bring immersion into the game, but there are still more negative issues it would bring to make it worth the effort. I don't want to be labeled as the guy who enabled psychos to live their fantasies of child mass murder or s*** like that.  

[HorribleGoat 1468]

I think the Cfgmimics class is still being used. I saw a reference to it in the wiki. Although there's no actual entry for it. Cfgmimics is where the autonomous expressions are defined. The ones the AI use depending on the situation. Happy, sad, angry etc. Each expression has entries for selections in the head and the values that move them. They never relied on rtms as far as I know, being procedurally generated from the config.

 

I doubt that's changed. I'm not sure how they're handled in A3 though. Unless there are specific memory points for them to use as axes, they most likely still translate from their rest positions instead of rotating. So your current selections and weighting might work as is. You'll know soon enough I suppose. :)

 

I vaguely remember reading that ages ago, but yeah you are right, I'll know whats what when I slap the head in game. :D

[Macser 776]

Looks like we were furiously typing away at the same time. :)

[PuFu 4598]

my 2 cents - try and stick as close to with BI topology, it is like that for a reason (the bones layout). You don't really need shorter bones, you need different pivots though.

i recently (last 6 month) went through the pain of weighting a couple of face, one of which was a female one.

[3D_vet 29]

my 2 cents - try and stick as close to with BI topology, it is like that for a reason (the bones layout). You don't really need shorter bones, you need different pivots though.

i recently went through the pain of weighting a couple of face, one of which was a female one.

yep, I don't know a single word about Arma3, or Arma in general , but have modded for several engines, and worked with several in-house made ones, and one would better always respect strictly the given skeleton and bones (with mods, specially, but also in in-house engines where all is built already, and a lo of the game is connected somehow with that skeleton...) , or it is a can of worms...

[HorribleGoat 1468]

my 2 cents - try and stick as close to with BI topology, it is like that for a reason (the bones layout). You don't really need shorter bones, you need different pivots though.

i recently went through the pain of weighting a couple of face, one of which was a female one.

Yeah I thought as much, thanks for the advice!  I'll test what happens with the now edited one since I've just repositioned some the bones a bit, If it does not work its back to the drawing board and time to figure out how it actually works.

 

yep, I don't know a single word about Arma3, or Arma in general , but have modded for several engines, and worked with several in-house made ones, and one would better always respect strictly the given skeleton and bones (with mods, specially, but also in in-house engines where all is built already, and a lo of the game is connected somehow with that skeleton...) , or it is a can of worms...

I might suggest you consider procuring A3 if you want to do something for it. Animations, models and all that can be made to pretty much game ready assets without the game but cant really test them without it. :D

 

Looks like we were furiously typing away at the same time. :)

Yes Indeed! :D

[3D_vet 29]

Yeah I thought as much, thanks for the advice!  I'll test what happens with the now edited one since I've just repositioned some the bones a bit, If it does not work its back to the drawing board and time to figure out how it actually works.

 

I might suggest you consider procuring A3 if you want to do something for it. Animations, models and all that can be made to pretty much game ready assets without the game but cant really test them without it. :D

 

I see... I am quite trained in 3d and art in general, have other times worked in mods without having the game... But I see your point, maybe is of no use...

I really do know my way through human head and body modeling/texturing (helped by the drawing skills) till making it all pro level, but...yup! At the point of testing it, I would not be able, to test the animations... The thing is, these days -meaning last months- no time for playing, and so, very non justified a purchase, buying any game, let alone the fact I have played crazy number of hours free to play games till this new work-only stage. ( battlefield4free(since beta till it got ended), planetside 2(no video for this one ,lol, but enjoyed a lot its tactics), etc, etc ) Also, doing many expenses lately, too, ...40 or 60$ I need those for other matters...Anyway, community is large... there for sure good modelers/animators here. I was aiming at it mostly as doing portfolio (anim, mostly) pieces + helping the community somehow... ;)

[road runner 4344]

will she walk like this? :P

 

 

[Alex150201 894]

will she walk like this? :P

 

 

I wish lol.

[zeealex 2029]

for very basic proof of concept facial rigging (eyelids, nose, and lips) i've found its quite easy in O2. just set the weight to near zero and paint 4 verts down each vertical loop of edges surrounding the bone. if that made any sense at all. I can give up one of the older head models if you want to look at its (very) basic rig. 
 

[3D_vet 29]

for very basic proof of concept facial rigging (eyelids, nose, and lips) i've found its quite easy in O2. just set the weight to near zero and paint 4 verts down each vertical loop of edges surrounding the bone. if that made any sense at all. I can give up one of the older head models if you want to look at its (very) basic rig. 

 

Interesting...

BTW, nice walk cycle, with softbody applied and all,(not so practical in games with bones), but has some probs in the steps (too rigid, some "pauses"), seen in the side view...

[PuFu 4598]

will she walk like this? :P

 

 

youtube.com/watch?v=nkWBRuJlQhA

lol, hope not...

this is somewhat better representation: 

you can weight on top of the character max file from the samples as well. goes pretty fast

[Kydoimos 915]

Keep up the great work, HorribleGoat - kudos to you mate! My wife's been complaining about the lack of women in Arma 3 for years! :D

[HorribleGoat 1468]

Thanks guys for the suggestions. Id say that the walk cycle Pufu suggested would be more appropriate, that is pretty good example of fluid walk cycle. Everyone is of course free to make their own.

I've not yet had the opportunity to continue work on the release package but hope to get it ready soon.

[HorribleGoat 1468]

Some more wip shots from the clothed mesh. This time in game.

Though the skin texture is really really fast and lacks all kinds of details and whatnot it kinda works in certain lighting.

For some reason though there were no one to welcome her to Altis.. :C Thats a little sad isn't it?

  

I wonder why no one came...

;9 I wonder why...

[Macser 776]

I'm sure they're all cowering just inside the tree line. :D

 

You're making great progress though. Nice work HG.