[WIP] Female base model project

[ineptaphid 6413]

Interesting fact.  Indeed, I think I remind that being mentioned in some war related movie. It's true, kind of weird if a town/village scenario has no women at all...  

 

Maybe models as player models are complex to add... but models as just NPCs are easier ? Once I purchase the game and get the content editing tools will see if I find my easy way around it... Unreal and Quake sagas were really easy to edit... These days is all much more complex, but the Mars game from Bohemia seems to make it way easier to add models. May that kind of thing reach that point some day in Arma.

 

  :) And also, I really was thinking this was more of some casual addition of less importance (in the idea that the game has its legions of fans and players already and perhaps had not demanded this too much, not that I think a game without women models is ok... It is usually not. ), and not much people interested. It is better if it is they are: Kind of better/more rewarding to know one would work in a project that's going to actually be used by certain number of modders or players.   :)

 

BTW, I have experience in messing around with many engines...Just not this one. So... While my area is artwork content, I don't think it's gonna be an issue after some fiddling, and doing my version/fork from the HG version. I can work on the "main branch" too, whatever HG prefers. 

 

yet though, from what I read from HG, it seems what we can have in a reasonable amount of time (in a longer period, anything can be done..) is just a mere basic woman model, mostly to act as NPC/civilian, rarely a player model with all weapon animations, and etc. Maybe just a basic player model with several basic player animations.  I'm fine with that, too.  You gotta start somewhere... ;)

I was thinking that-a more basic female model that would just be for ai or npc. or even more basic where it would not be able to use weapons etc.

 

I hope that does not sound sexist!-I don't mean at all that women cant use weapons-I just mean to have a basic female model in game first with the aim of moving on to fully playable female units.Thats all! :)

[CrazyCorky 463]

I was thinking that-a more basic female model that would just be for ai or npc. or even more basic where it would not be able to use weapons etc.

 

I hope that does not sound sexist!-I don't mean at all that women cant use weapons-I just mean to have a basic female model in game first with the aim of moving on to fully playable female units.Thats all! :)

Don't worry. I'm sure most of us feel how you do! Basic model for starters to fill the void. Then advance it tcombat stances a and weapon carrying.

[3D_vet 29]

That sounds slightly easier ...I'm gonna purchase the game, and check the workflows people (the Arma 3's modding community) has out there to integrate models in-game, specially those with an skeleton, will see how goes the experience. (and will mention it here)

Specially interested in import/export of mesh models with skeletons and animations, of course. 

[3D_vet 29]

Okay...purchased the game, the Apex edition. Will see how it goes for me...

[3D_vet 29]

Euh....

Please, excuse me if I am being too dense, or if technically we are speaking about a very different thing, but, isn't there already quite some advance/success with adding female animated models into Arma 3? I was just starting my lurk around in editing threads to see what I can do and how, just to realize there is indeed a multiple women models generation by Maxjoiner : 

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/190907-max-women-wip/

 

Am I missing something here ?

[HitmanTwoActual 188]

Euh....

Please, excuse me if I am being too dense, or if technically we are speaking about a very different thing, but, isn't there already quite some advance/success with adding female animated models into Arma 3? I was just starting my lurk around in editing threads to see what I can do and how, just to realize there is indeed a multiple women models generation by Maxjoiner : 

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/190907-max-women-wip/

 

Am I missing something here ?

His models are ported from A2 and they are still using a male skeleton. So with that said there are still issues.

[3D_vet 29]

Aha, I see.

[ineptaphid 6413]

Aha, I see.

There are a couple-Max Joiner, ZeeAlex has a pack and Zabb has his Enforcer pack.But none are quite..right. Zeealex has the best in my opinion-she is making some good stuff and also makes great models for RHS.

[3D_vet 29]

I see... can't find for now  ZeeAlex threads, but will keep searching. 

[zeealex 2029]

i'm right here if you've got questions, I follow this thread like a lost sheep :D

 

[3D_vet 29]

His models are ported from A2 and they are still using a male skeleton. So with that said there are still issues.

 

Seems there are no arma 3 models available as "public", that might be the issue, I guess (sorry, am new to all here)  https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Public_Data

Finding one, even male model, would be key, as one can always try to modify the skeleton and mesh...

[3D_vet 29]

zeealex, while my job as a freelancer is close to inhumane, from time to time I have good chunks of time to put in there. May I join forces (somehow) with you, for the female model ?  

My main issue is the total lack of knowledge of the game and engine, but I can modify skeletons, animations, mesh and stuff. (specially in Blender (count on experience on Max, too), but I can usually convert among formats, and fix them later)

 

In the lil bits of time I have I become very active, though. Right now digging all info I can.

[3D_vet 29]

Nice weapons modeling, too, there, btw. :)

[zeealex 2029]

anything specific you need? I'll let you know if i can help, more than happy to supply the MLOD for the old female body models i did for FEMAL3 too ;)

[3D_vet 29]

I'm even lost in terminology(formats, etc), lol... :D  . But I suppose will be like in other engines... 

If you have the model pack for the female, I can later try to import it to the game, so to start learning about integration. 

So, I'm guessing there's no thread or source with Arma3  models released yet, right  ?

[3D_vet 29]

Oki, I found it, lol...diggin' it now...

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/170082-zee-identity-pack/

[3D_vet 29]

the MLOD for the old female body models i did for FEMAL3 too ;)

 

I think that would be extremely useful. :)

 

Downloading from that thread : FEMAL3 Standalone (FEMAL3 only)

[3D_vet 29]

I'm curious... The project seems advanced. Which obstacles are you finding, if it is not much to ask ?

[zeealex 2029]

I assume you got confused by the term MLOD; it just means a model that you can open and doesn't crash the object editor. ;) 

i can give you the model, textures and configs, commented so you know what's what. with a little notepad crash course as to what's where and why this does that. it's a very old model, i'm currently in the process of reworking the bodies from the ground up alongside a friend, and as a result the old models have no real sentimental value anymore. 


Obstacles presently are the skeleton, without a proper female skeleton with average female height and female like anims, they look out of place. along with that things need to be proportioned EXACTLY to fit the arma 3 male headwear and animations and that as a result can cause some severe head deformations, and disproportion, it doesn't look rad that's for sure. 

[Macser 776]

I love reading about these kinds of projects. 

 

For combat it might look a little strange for female characters to use male animations. The differences may be small, in motion. But it's something you'd recognise. Maybe not enough to put you off using them though. In the middle of a firefight those subtleties probably wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

Even though you can tweak a mesh to look a certain way, the mesh goes where the bones go. There's no 2 ways about it. Tweaks only have a small margin for correction before you get stretching, twisting and distortion. A good example of that was the original OFP characters.

 

The horrible "t-pose" made people try to correct it in the mesh by widening the shoulders. But the rtms would then add their offset , widening the shoulders excessively, and slightly inflating the arms. If carried too far you got distortion for more extreme poses. So the arms began rotating around the shoulder, instead of at the shoulder.

 

The only way to be sure your character retains it's proportions, is to animate with a rig based on the mesh itself. Rather than trying to make it fit an existing skeleton. Considering the vast quantity of anims the newer games have, that's quite a lot of work. Unless some compromises are made.

 

Obviously if there was some way to import rtms, you could retarget. But as yet that's not available.

[3D_vet 29]

if... ALL the women would be made to be tall... wouldn't that fix it? I know, is not the average...

I'm guessing bones placement, like, having wider shoulders/torso bones in male models, when reducing for females a bit, that might cause issues, too ?

Mostly, if bones changes (keeping number, naming, etc) in what is scale and placement, that'd make it impossible, even after reworking the bones' weights (that I can do, too), would be good to know.

Hip/shoulder-clavicle bones need to be changed, that's for sure...

 

Female-like anims seems a work of animation, seems more doable...

 

Will your friend be helping you with meshes only, or meshes and female animations ?

 

I'm guessing editing both base mesh and normal maps, too, to avoid to much of male face features (strong and angled jaw, not very common, some undesired bulges in face, etc), but I guess you addressed that, already.

 

i can give you the model, textures and configs, commented so you know what's what. with a little notepad crash course as to what's where and why this does that. 

 

 

If you are so kind, you could put me a PM with the download link. The old female model version you have would be more than great for me. I'm feeling I can work from there more easily. Some explanations (the notepad thing) would be great, too (don't fear dumping too much info, I'm at zero stage with this engine, all is welcome... ;)   )

 

Sorry the several minutes, i was actually doing my first test of the game, lol. (don't worry, am experienced in art, hope this is what counts, here..)

[3D_vet 29]

I love reading about these kinds of projects. 

 

For combat it might look a little strange for female characters to use male animations. The differences may be small, in motion. But it's something you'd recognise. Maybe not enough to put you off using them though. In the middle of a firefight those subtleties probably wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

Even though you can tweak a mesh to look a certain way, the mesh goes where the bones go. There's no 2 ways about it. Tweaks only have a small margin for correction before you get stretching, twisting and distortion. A good example of that was the original OFP characters.

 

The horrible "t-pose" made people try to correct it in the mesh by widening the shoulders. But the rtms would then add their offset , widening the shoulders excessively, and slightly inflating the arms. If carried too far you got distortion for more extreme poses. So the arms began rotating around the shoulder, instead of at the shoulder.

 

The only way to be sure your character retains it's proportions, is to animate with a rig based on the mesh itself. Rather than trying to make it fit an existing skeleton. Considering the vast quantity of anims the newer games have, that's quite a lot of work. Unless some compromises are made.

 

Obviously if there was some way to import rtms, you could retarget. But as yet that's not available.

 

To be sincere, am not going in a first shot at it too perfectionist (was required so at companies...). if sth is a bit off, so be it. Can be improved over time...plus, is done in my free time.... :)

Even in walking you can easily notice, in general, whatever the game, if you import male animations into a female character...

When you speak about the small margin for tweaks... Are you stating in this game is not possible even with some weighting tricks "magic" ? (I had to do crazy things in the past...)

Yeh, I hate T-pose, too...There are a lot of better fixes rather than changing the mesh, though... typically. A pitty that in a game usually one can't randomly add an extra bone there to compensate. Very few games allow this. As all is hard coded and related to all..

The shoulder scenario you mention sounds horrid, indeed... I guess I will see what am I facing exactly once I end up opening it in the 3d package...

 

Yeah, after all am reading... Seems the ONLY sane (for me , lol) way might be to just model a good female mesh, add it a male skeleton -so to keep naming, number of bones, etc-  modify it heavily to become a true female skeleton, animate juts very few animations (idles, walk animation, little more) and hope and pray it would do at least as an NPC, not as a player model... 

 

A pitty the game has then a fabulous editor but not an utility to import existing animation into different skeletons....

 

Is it that weird/hard to try to adapt the animations to fit the new situation ?  I mean, not the skeleton, neither the mesh, just the animation info...

[3D_vet 29]

Obviously if there was some way to import rtms, you could retarget. But as yet that's not available.

 

I guess the answer is there, already.

[3D_vet 29]

Oki, sorry, am hijacking a bit this thread with my dump of questions...Just felt starting a new thread for just it was not justified.  Need to go back to my work, but zeealex, feel free to send me by PM whatever link or file you wish, sure will be tremendously helpful. And if you also need animation/weights(bone influences) or even modeling/textturing help in your female project (i want to mainly focus in animation/weighting, if possible, as is where I want to pull some new portfolio(as vid capture only), but no probs helping in other areas), just let me know. Might be a lot easier if I get into a project team rather than go all lone wolf... I wanted to do so here, just became impatient, hehe.

 

Anyway, in other free chunk of time will do my import tests, skeleton tests, etc.

[3D_vet 29]

last before leaving till next "brainstorm" (lol) , 3 interesting links for the general matter :

 

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23432

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Modding_Characters

http://friedenhq.org/?page_id=251

EDIT: This one's great, too :

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/145290-arma-toolbox-for-blender-arma-23-exporter-script/