VBS2/3 Discussion thread - the one and only

[scrim 1]

I'm pretty sure I've read at least 2-3 almost identical articles the last year. Talk about bad journalism. Either way, what it effectively means is that they've put out a sort of market request that includes pretty much everything in VBS2, plus a few additional things, meaning that they're essentially asking for additions to VBS2, as there aren't really any competitors out there that are even close to competing with VBS2 as it is now, nor with the additional requests. I mean, that Havok director or whoever he was, I've never heard of that company regarding military simulators, and as has been concluded in another thread, that Cryengine or what's-it's-name hasn't even demonstrated that it can produce anything else than a few two minute film clips displaying a very small size enviroment. Good luck combining a simulator like VBS2 with CoD graphics without having to send all your soldiers to Florida so they can use the NASA computers to get computers that won't say "FU, I'm out of here" when you try to start the sim...

[spooky lynx 73]

Well, some years ago many of us thought that there would be no PC capable of handling environment with bigger dimensions and better graphics than in OFP. Now my 5 y.o. Socket775-based PC gives me even better FPS in ArmA2 than in OFP with less freezes and lags and surely with better graphics and complex big terrains. So I suppose it's not so hard and long-to-achieve goal to combine VBS2-like sim and CoD graphics. Especially with current technical development that becomes only faster and faster.

[max power 21]

I think they should make all training and school more like FPS. If they had done this earlier, I would have a triple doctorate by now.

[scrim 1]

And a side note: CoD, BF3, MoH, etc. look good, not realistic. They do not look even remotely realistic. Just look out your window, and compare it to any of those games. Does the world really look like that?

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

And a side note: CoD, BF3, MoH, etc. look good, not realistic. They do not look even remotely realistic. Just look out your window, and compare it to any of those games. Does the world really look like that?

Um.. For a computer rendered visual that I can run on my PC at home they look pretty damn good to me? Are you wanting a CGI output or something similar for a training app?

[scrim 1]

That's what I mean, CoD and those games look good, not realistic.

[metalcraze 290]

BI should ditch DOF and bloom too to get closer to reality. They are terrible, awful effects and aren't realistic either.

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

Lets say I wanted to train you on how to drive in a line formation an keeping safe distance from other vehicles in that formation. Do you think I would really care about giving you this super realistic scenic route so you can smile an be happy while I train you on proper vehicle procedures. Does that really help you learn the task at hand? That versus a flat area nothing but a desert map an a road. Do you see the point im trying to make? Most that visual shit is not needed an is considered a distraction to the trainee, Anyone would say that the core functionality of what ever is being trained for is needed anything more is just a bonus. Saying they don't look realistic would be like saying a training manual isn't to realistic cause it doesn't have any real colored pictures in it.

[noubernou 77]

Um.. For a computer rendered visual that I can run on my PC at home they look pretty damn good to me? Are you wanting a CGI output or something similar for a training app?

Woah there, blue on blue NZX... :p He is saying that those games are overly stylized and serve no advantage to training.

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

Woah there, blue on blue NZX... :p He is saying that those games are overly stylized and serve no advantage to training.

I sowy.

[froggyluv 2135]

Yes but sometimes no matter how much you try and preach that your function is correct and superior to fad run fluff - you lose the battle. For instance I run power and olympic lifting training camps, while 95% of everyone who steps foot into my gym wants "core" and "ab work". No matter how much science I give them that its the big, compound lifts will give them 10x the core strength compared to standing on a blue balance ball with another red ball overhead (much like the circus) - they demand it. Result: I do both with the latter really only for their entertainment value.

A BIS developer wrote a thesis level explanation of the distraction of high fidelity some time ago yet here we are with the military still demanding more visceral punch.

[[aps]gnat 28]

But how much is about simply impressing the High Ranks or even Ministers that make the decision about whether their armed forces buys that fancy software package ............. ?

Just because the grunts see the logic ..........

[scrim 1]

Eh, considering the vast sums of money these things cost, and this hasn't really turned ugly with lobbying and such like other military products, in the end it's probably the system that gets the best feedback in testing.

[metalcraze 290]

High ranks that know nothing about virtual training don't select the software.

[Vandrel 10]

BISim is seeking to fill a position at our office in Prague, more info here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?145337-Bohemia-Interactive-Simulations-is-hiring

[Wildgoose 1]

The British army has conducted its largest virtual battle simulation, involving 220 soldiers.

The experiment was carried out at the Army's Land Warfare Centre in Warminster, Wiltshire.

full story link

[noubernou 77]

full story link

Haha nice...

However, Col Law admitted virtual environments had their limits.

"The problem is that all you have is the screen," he said.

"In reality your unit would be shouting, 'Look out, over there,' - situation awareness isn't entirely visual."

Sounds like they need some ACRE in VBS2... ;)

[froggyluv 2135]

I've always thought a point animation would be useful for both players and AI. You can look at their gun but they may be scanning somewhere else. Head nods could work as well....:p

Also an STHud type UI but enhanced in that the player's speaking's icon would light up so you could quicly understand their bearings and locational intent.

[noubernou 77]

I've always thought a point animation would be useful for both players and AI. You can look at their gun but they may be scanning somewhere else. Head nods could work as well....:p

Also an STHud type UI but enhanced in that the player's speaking's icon would light up so you could quicly understand their bearings and locational intent.

I had a pointing script that I was working on for a while that also used visual aides to help with the more constricted field of view that you have in game. It is in the abandoned projects thread here on the BIF, at least until I can find a really nice pointing animation to go with it (since just the visual aid is kinda cheesy/cheaty looking, especially if you are on the other side of the finger, you want to know people are pointing in your direction).

As for STHud with voice things, not sure why you'd need that. It is pretty easy to place voices in ACRE since it uses your in game world position, and in the next version it uses dynamic voice cones based on the players head direction for even more fidelity.

[froggyluv 2135]

Well I hope you get that pimpin point animation because not only would it be useful visual aid but also a nice changeup animation for alarmed AI - and could maybe up their allies knowsabout in a more realistic way rather then "auto".

I've never used ACRE, thought it a MP only type audio aid and was more for immersion so maybe I could check out. I still think the enhanced hud would work well as whenever "2" is yelling something in relation to him -him lighting up on my hud with an easy read of his orientation would be huge -speaking AI here.

Edited January 30, 2013 by froggyluv
baad gremmer

[noubernou 77]

Well I hope you get that pimpin point animation because not only would it be useful visual aid but always a nice changeup animation for alarmed AI - and could maybe up their allies knowsabout in a more realistic way rather then "auto".

I've never used ACRE, thought it a MP only type audio aid and was more for immersion so maybe I could check out. I still think the enhanced hud would work well as whenever "2" is yelling something in relation to him -him lighting up on my hud with an easy read of his orientation would be huge -speaking AI here.

ACRE is MP only, it supplants the Arma VON system using TS3 and includes realistic directional 3D voice speaking, including whispering and yelling, and its main feature, realistic radios with real life signal loss modeling.

[froggyluv 2135]

The "Hud lighting up icon" would just give a very fast idea of whats happening in that player/AI 's cone of vision on the fly. If my guys are in wedge, somewhat spread out and "3" yells contact while lighting up red and facing hard right -Ill have a very good general idea of where contact is coming from as i generally don't know where 3 is when reporting in. Often I find myself having to pull up the targets list and as we all know you may go thru 3 pages of "dog", "fence" man" before we figure ouit where the hell he is talking about. Even more mundane things like "outta ammo" when in the heat of battle -me knowing where he is spacially can save me crucial split seconds to move him out of the way and into safety.

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

What would be the difference of usage from CNR an ACRE?

[noubernou 77]

What would be the difference of usage from CNR an ACRE?

ACRE provides a natural experience. Everyone in game is able to chat with each other as if it were real life. Your voice falls off naturally with distance, and people are placed in stereo/surround sound based on their relative position to your head. There are no confusing lists of people to organize, everyone is immediately available in a natural environment.

As for radios, ACRE provides higher fidelity simulation of radio equipment and usage. The need to take into consideration signal planning when training is crucial as communications are the key to a successful battle. With ACRE that is accomplished using our custom radio signal propagation model that runs solely in software and requires no external hardware like some other solutions. This model includes accurate simulations of various antennas as well, modeling their gain patterns.

CNR provides a simple "channel" solution for simulating radios, where as in the next version of ACRE we will have accurate simulations of the actual radio equipment used by the US Military as well as other international forces, including simulation of COMSEC/Frequency Hopping, external equipment such as fill devices and external crypto gear, loud speakers, different antennas and other devices. Users will be able to train on the simulated radios as if they were the real thing.

[bushlurker 46]

Here's another story on the same exercise.... slightly better picture...

LINK

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