Is a few weekends worth of work worth half a million Euro?

[code34 248]

No surprise, this contest was unfair since the selection period was re opened for registered some of big missing entries that BIS want to see as finalist (winnner ??). Everybody knows about that, that was a real infregment to the rule that should cancel definitively the contest. There was no official control to check if BIS is really fair or not.

BIS select who they want, for the reason they want. There is no explanation, just they will select what they like. It doesn't mean other works are bad, or should not be finalists for community.

But i confirm there is no way to win money as arma developper. In years/months of coding, the better things that happens to me, is that other coders use my code agreeing my licence, when not, they steal/copy it, putting their name instead of mine and sometime wins money or contest with it (..)Its poor things in comparaison of time spend, money spend in servers/website, applications etc. Every players should think about this when they play/use external works

Currently, if you want to earn money it s simpliest to do a twitch steam and receive donations, than doing a big and hard work like coding during weeks, and finaly earn negative value. This contest should purpose to win tee shirt, create a game studio in association with bis, or other geek things. It s a bad thing to talk about dollars expected from BIS, when it should come from the community.

Note: In bis contest, a friend(Jp) has kindly participated in the different fees

Edited January 31, 2015 by code34

[Rydygier 1317]

BIS select who they want, for the reason they want.

Of course. What's wrong with that? Criteria are plainly listed in the rules, particular evaluation per each of them obviously had to be subjective, following taste and opinion of judges. Clear like a sun. What exactly do you expected instead? And now, as stated in the rules, jury members will allocate their points freely amongst finalists.

just they will select what they like. It doesn't mean other works are bad

True and true. Who stated otherwise? Good description of the jury member job BTW. Again - what's wrong with that?

There was no official control to check if BIS is really fair or not.

Huh? And official control of the official control? Who said, controllers are fair? But seriously, what's unfair in someone spending his time and money the way, he want?

I have to admit, it's sad and depressing to read things like that. What's unfair its only publicly reckless throwing at BI people unsubstantiated accusations. Expressing own opinion is one thing, but that's unjust, deeply not right and IMO require public apology, but that yours conscience. Think calm, before post, you can do much harm to the other with hasty words.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Rydygier

[code34 248]

This is not an accusation, it's just an observation. The competition rules were not followed, it is a fact. And everyone should take things a little more light.

As I said above the BIS should distribute t-shirts instead $, everyone would resonate a little more clearly.

[Rydygier 1317]

This is not an accusation, it's just an observation.

Sorry, but no, it's not "just an observation" saying, so BI deliberately manipulated the rules to make certain entries finalists/winners. It's accusation about BI intentions, nothing, you could possibly "observe".

And everyone should take things a little more light.

Certainly. So do that. It wasn't light at all, what you said above.

[Kydoimos 916]

Correct me if i'm wrong but all these mods can't be more than a few hundred hours worth of work give or take a few?

I've clocked almost 8,000 hours on my SP entry. Check my Steam profile :) Plus, there's many more hours involved with audio / video / promotion etc.

I know others have poured a lot of personal time and effort into MANW too - it can be deceptive, judging the time-value of some of these projects. Kudos to all involved!

[code34 248]

Sorry, but no, it's not "just an observation" saying, so BI deliberately manipulated the rules to make certain entries finalists/winners. It's accusation about BI intentions, nothing, you could possibly "observe".

Certainly. So do that. It wasn't light at all, what you said above.

There was a release date, and BIS report this date to months later cause they want to see some entries happens that were normaly disqualified by rules. It s not a secret, there is official mail about that.

I don't care about this. You certainly missunderstanding my message.

[Rydygier 1317]

There was a release date, and BIS report this date to months later cause they want to see some entries happens that were normaly disqualified by rules. It s not a secret, there is official mail about that.

Yes, but you clearly said something more, than that.

I don't care about this. You certainly missunderstanding my message.

Possibly. But if you do not care, why you're writing about at all and with words suggesting, like you do care? Anyway. You said, what you said, I said, what I said, apparently nothing new to add, so enough of this topic as for me.

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

@Kydoimos:

8,000

Er.. OK? :eek: Not counted exactly, but doubtful, if for me it was more than 1000. What was most time consuming in your project, if I may ask?

[IndeedPete 1038]

Er.. OK? :eek:

That's just ~22 hours a day from Arma 3 final release to contest deadline, it's feasible. Or maybe clocks are ticking differently in Britain.^^

Knowing Kydoimos I'm certain he's put more time into the contest than most of the other contestants. :)

[lexx 1385]

I clocked about 800 hours before I broke my right hand and was unable to work on anything for 3 months. :D

It's easy to get that Steam timer up, though. Usually you are spending most of the time in the mission editor, and I wouldn't be surprised if the game is counting the time outside of the game with alt+tab as well. Right now I am at approx 1004 hours.

[bilu90 10]

@benamaina

I'm totaly agree with that, a guy from my group create the "Armageddon " mod for Muliplayer contest, he spent much 1000 hours to make the script work well for the tornado and other stuff, depending of optimisation for other player, he got 224 supporter, he was promoted, is mod was downloaded more than 40 000 time and he don't have a place for the final ? It feel like Bi's choose randomly the finalist, no offence for @zooloo75 but i feel like the "AIRSOFT: BRING YOUR A-GAME" with 45 supporter was a exemple of the bad choose by Bi's ... And i know my lack of bias because i know the autor of ArmAgeddon

they supposed to vote with this condition or i'm wrong ?

- Technical quality: technical design, optimization and innovative solution of an Entry;

- Originality: originality and innovation of an Entry's concept;

- Experience: overall gameplay experience, balance of design and challenge presented by an Entry;

- Presentation: coherence and consistency of an Entry's presentation in terms of functionality and expression.

Sorry for the "coup de gueule" =)

http://makearmanotwar.com/entry/eba3yzQZev

I totally agree and the Armageddon mod is not the only model that has not been retained as it should have. What have you done BIS ?

[IndeedPete 1038]

1566 here since Alpha. And yes, it seems to count the time spent with the game minimised. I also did a lot of MANW work outside of the editor. Dry-coding funtions or writing dialogues on the train, researching etc.

[Rydygier 1317]

Still 8000... I have 2367 on Steam, but only minority of it was used for MANW and the majority of MANW time was scripting...

[badluckburt 78]

8000 / 24 = 333.33 days :O

There can be only one explanation for this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/TARDIS2.jpg

oh wait, and all those 3's -> HL3 confirmed ^^

[IndeedPete 1038]

8000 / 24 = 333.33 days :O

There can be only one explanation for this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/TARDIS2.jpg

oh wait, and all those 3's -> HL3 confirmed ^^

Kydoimos, Brit, TARDIS - can't be a coincidence. He must be the thirteenth Doctor! :)

[Kydoimos 916]

Kydoimos, Brit, TARDIS - can't be a coincidence. He must be the thirteenth Doctor! :)

Lol, man - if only I did have a TARDIS! :D Perhaps I ought to explain - I started work on Resist 3-4 months before MANW was announced. Nevertheless, still a fair few thousand hours there! I've finally had the chance to play some of the SP entries too; there's a lot of love that's been lavished on them! Basically, this Time Lord's point: folks have been working really hard!

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:55 ----------

@Rydygier - oh, most time-consuming part of the project :) Positioning everything in the 2D editor!

[Jona33 51]

Lol, man - if only I did have a TARDIS! :D Perhaps I ought to explain - I started work on Resist 3-4 months before MANW was announced. Nevertheless, still a fair few thousand hours there! I've finally had the chance to play some of the SP entries too; there's a lot of love that's been lavished on them! Basically, this Time Lord's point: folks have been working really hard!

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:55 ----------

@Rydygier - oh, most time-consuming part of the project :) Positioning everything in the 2D editor!

Holy shit, you did your object placement manually? That must have taken absolutely hours!

[IndeedPete 1038]

Holy shit, you did your object placement manually? That must have taken absolutely hours!

How would you do that? Some things can be done with attachTo or Splendid Cam + setPos but still, it takes vast amounts of time to build detailed scenes, especially in the mostly empty urban environments. Plus aligning user textures like posters or blood spatter on walls is a true pain in the butt. I copypasted quite a lot form BI's camps and compositions and I shall not be ashamed! :) Even nowadays I usually go to an older mission to copy whole camp sites or desks with stuff on it instead of making it all by myself again...

[.kju 3245]

With some exceptions most finalists look like a fair choice and often either by known modders or having generated public support.

That said a few notes and observations:

• It would have been very useful to clean up the MANW entries from tests, fake submissions, copyright issues, etc (from time to time/after the submission phase ended at least).
  
• The whole MANW page was very disappointing - hard to keep track of changes, progress, no link to BI threads, often no download - overall a dead space essentially.
  
• People were confused about submission dates, way of submission, etc - a simple basic summary should have been prominent on the page.
  
• It seems like no revision/review was done if things were in the right category. Some entries, even among finalists, clearly are not.
  
• In Total Modification it seems like just ~15 usable entries judging from the contest pages and links on there.
  
• How many Total Modification had missions (test, tutorial, story, game modes, etc)?
  
• It seems like BI tried to avoid select two items of the same type (Epoch vs Breaking Point, TFAR vs ACRE2, F/A-18X Black Wasp vs FC-37 Thunder, terrains, etc)
  
• It seems like being a finalist in one category practically excluded the entry in another category.
  
• It seems aside from quality, also the uniqueness of a concept gave most chances to get selected.
  
• It would have been great to get some feedback from BI on each valid/meaningful submission when the review was done.
  

Here are submissions I would have considered having also a chance to be among finalists:

Total Modification:

• Breaking Point
  
• East vs West (missions might have helped, or does it have any?)
  
• Arma 3 Fishing (might be too simple though - still quite unique and technically seemed very exceptional)
  
• Living thorough (seemed too buggy though unfortunately)
  
• Real Sim (haven't checked it but sounds decent at least)
  
• A few more seem to be decent, yet would need actual testing
  

Addon:

• BCombat - infantry ai mod
  
• X39s medical system
  
• Sweet markers system
  
• Enhanced movement
  
• Jurassic Arma - Dinosaur Pack
  
• Action button mod
  
• [eods] explosive ordnance disposal suite
  
• Cosmos engine
  
• [R3F] French weapons pack
  
• FFAA mod (havent check the A3 version though)
  
• Dynamic Altis airports
  
• SpookWarCom
  
• Helmet mounted displays mod
  
• Units: FC-37 Thunder, Sukhoi T-50 (PAK-FA)
  
• Terrains: Wake island, Imrali island
  

A few of these might be too simplistic at first, yet with considerable gameplay effect or technical finesse.

Multiplayer:

• Armageddon
  
• Whole lotta altis coop
  
• Dynamic Take And Secure (DTAS)
  
• Defiance
  
• [R3F] Opex altis
  
• CO40 Domination! blufor [3.00]
  
• Tactical advance (and the anvil framework)
  

Probably several more, but hard to say without haven't checked them in detail or play-tested.

Any other recommendations?

Edited January 31, 2015 by .kju [PvPscene]

[das attorney 858]

I think you pretty much covered it there .kju

Some very strange choices by BI imo. I didn't have a horse in the race so I don't have any particular bias, but I've played some of the ones that didn't make final 10 in their category and they were a lot more fun and innovative than some of the finalists.

[code34 248]

;2871072']

Any other recommendations?

Yes i recommand you to add my mp mission to your testing list: combat assault and let you make your own opinion (gameplay & code).

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?186666-COOP-COMBAT-ASSAULT-Official-Thread

[inlesco 233]

LOSounds inclusion wasn't even a joke. It's downright insulting, totally represents the seriousness of the contest ("seriousness" my ass).

[smiley nick 51]

Part of me suspects that BIS employees are fed up of the game and the seriousness and realism it comes with. Things like LOSounds or dinosaur AI might be what they are looking for - to brighten up their day! Congratulations to everyone nonetheless.

[code34 248]

you are fired --> [EXIT]

[das attorney 858]

What I find strange is some of the competitors have entered client-only files for their competition entry.

I understand they want to keep their code hidden (which is fair enough) but then they can also enter in the competition releasing just the client files (as you would get anyway if you logged on and played them) seems strange when most of the other competitors have to release all of their files by default.

I would have thought it would be one or the other: keep it hidden and 'protect' what you have created or put your chips on the table and enter it fully in the competition.

This isn't a cheap shot to try and get a peek at their work ( I couldn't care less what's in them to be honest - I'd rather code stuff myself as that's why I started doing it in the first place).

It seems you can have your cake and eat it.

[PiZZADOX 47]

This contest is a nice gesture from BIS but that monetizing way of supporting the community isn't the most efficient way to do it imho, and the idea of a contest with such a huge price is against what i thought the "community spirit" was. Time has changed.

Exactly :( I don't think there is anything wrong with Bohemia doing this, but I don't think the "real" :rolleyes: modders are not in it for the money, and to be honest a lot of the most popular voted mods are not going to be the best polished (DayZ's scripting comes to mind) or even the most inventive.

I would rather have every cent stay in Bohemia's pockets to put towards allocating time and effort towards platform updates and optimization. A number of fantastic additions and fixes to the engine will motivate people far greater than any amount of money.