Arma 3 Server monetization

[eaglestrike999 13]

You're idea is really good and as you pointed out, the flaw is that people can make logging/detection very hard. Would it not be possible to simply detect if an A3 Server was running ANY additional content except for Vanilla. For example Battleye checks each client out, could it not check, upon launch, each server (maybe not specifically battleye but you get the idea). Servers that went through the application process and in a sense, get themselves whitelisted for additional content and wouldn't arise any sort of query whereas ones that are not whitelisted and have additional content being run aside from vanilla A3 could be flagged for BI to look into.

I'm no coder or server wiz but I'm pretty sure something like that is entirely possible. Whether there is ways to get around it I have no idea.

[x3kj 1247]

In addition its probably fair to say that most do not share the same values and common understanding that has been established in the arma

scene to varying degree in the various sections of the very diverse community of OFP/arma.

I'd like to mention that this isn't just in the arma community... It's in basically every community where people invest serious time to making original content (models, terrain,...) that stealing and copying without permission is very much looked down upon... because it's just natural, it's common modder ethics. Arma isn't unique in that regard. And it's always either the "just players" with little connection to content making or people who actively copy who try to play the issue down.

have additional content being run aside from vanilla A3 could be flagged for BI to look into.

Well there's the problem. BI doesnt want to spend manpower to look into it. Because money.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Fennek

[kbbw123 115]

Hello Johny.

I was wondering one thing. We got removed from the whitelist of servers that are allowed to monetize. basicly we didn't even really monetize we give people an custom .xml if they Donate now please tell me why mister Jan of your "Legal Department" comes in with an mail after 2 weeks to tell us that an .xml is NOT allowed because public people can't get that???????

now please tell me exactly HOW an .xml can affect gameplay IN ANYWAY. I mean a .xml is not even a ingame item..... and if it is because we where hosting a Domination mission i can honestly say we don't host THAT anymore so no need to worry about xeno raging against you about us anymore so please Johny enlighten me here

Kind regards,

KBBW - Kai

Elite Warriors

[Jackal326 1181]

Hello Johny.

I was wondering one thing. We got removed from the whitelist of servers that are allowed to monetize. basicly we didn't even really monetize we give people an custom .xml if they Donate now please tell me why mister Jan of your "Legal Department" comes in with an mail after 2 weeks to tell us that an .xml is NOT allowed because public people can't get that???????

now please tell me exactly HOW an .xml can affect gameplay IN ANYWAY. I mean a .xml is not even a ingame item..... and if it is because we where hosting a Domination mission i can honestly say we don't host THAT anymore so no need to worry about xeno raging against you about us anymore so please Johny enlighten me here

Kind regards,

KBBW - Kai

Elite Warriors

Regardless of the circumstances, I'm glad to see BI are taking action with regard to this issue (not your server in particular Kai, I have no knowledge of your circumstances, I'm merely commenting on the actions as a whole).

[Johny 25]

Hello KBBW123,

first let me apologize for the time it took us reply to your reply to the removal from the whitelist, we have had some issues with the issue tracking system and your email has fallen through the cracks.

Second I would like to explain your situation - you were removed from the whitelist because we have received a report from the author of the several of the addons you are using on your website. He stated he did not give you permission and in your reply you did not provide any information which would prove (or even hint) the opposite.

Without the server monetization permission your server is back to the "only donations" status and as I have explained several times in this thread: donations are gifts without any counter value. While I might personally agree that the squad XML is really a small and insignificant, we still consider it a counter value and and as such we consider it a monetization which requires permission. If you look at it from the players perspective, the XML it not so different from donator hat or uniform and that is just a step from donator car, donator gun or donator tank and bang we are back at the donator shops.

Feel free to give your donators special status on the forums or your website, but unless you are on the allowed monetizator list you are not allowed to give them anything in game.

Or you may try getting a permission from the mod author.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Johny
typo

[Tankbuster 1746]

Regardless of the circumstances, I'm glad to see BI are taking action with regard to this issue (not your server in particular Kai, I have no knowledge of your circumstances, I'm merely commenting on the actions as a whole).

I think that this might be viewed as positive for the community as a whole while less so for KBBW. If nothing else, it has cleared up an as yet potentially unforeseen circumstance in clarifying that xmls are 'bought'. And of course, that KBBW has allegedly not responded appropriately to requests for addon removal.

As for KBBW's situation, the tone of his post looks to me at least, as if he's trying hard - and failing - to justify his actions which he knew or suspected to be against the spirit of the rules. "we didn't really monetize"? Either you did or you didn't and I think you know you did. Fair play to you for attempting to use the new framework, though.

Let's be honest, the Elite Warriors are far from the worst offenders that have bought us to this sorry juncture. Let's also remember that those who are apt to flout the rules in the past are unlikely to come here giving feedback on a system that could and should stop their ill gotten gains.

[badluckburt 78]

unless you are not on the allowed monetizator list you are not allowed to give them anything in game.

I think that's stating the opposite of what you're trying to clarify so you may want to reword that. 'Unless' followed by 'you are not on the allowed monetizator list' implies that I should NOT be on the list in order to give a donator something in-game.

[Johny 25]

'Unless' followed by 'you are not on the allowed monetizator

Right you are,sir! Thanks a lot for pointing it out.

I have edited the post.

[Richie 330]

Feel free to give your donators special status on the forums or your website, but unless you are on the allowed monetizator list you are not allowed to give them anything in game.

Or you may try getting a permission from the mod author.

I'd still love to know how anyone ignoring this rule will have it enforced ?

A take down notice won't do anything, show me an addon that has a registered copyright.

Server providers won't do anything, you're not breaking their hosting rules.

Do BI check that communities making money are paying any taxes due ? we know that's a no, you try to take a moral stance but ignore any legal issues.

Monetization has to be the stupidest idea you guys have ever come up with, It trumps that silly browser game.

[Johny 25]

Yes, mods usually don't have registered copyrights, but you don't need to register a copyright to have IP rights to your works, you get those automatically.

On the other hand we do have registered copyrights which gives us an advantage of better establishing our IP ownership and thus helps us with takedown proceedings.

As I said before, I am not going to describe our process regarding the violators. As anyone who has ever tried to do so can confirm that taking stuff down from the internet is hard even without me giving a list of tips and hints on how to make it harder for us.

About the taxes - we have no authority or right to monitor or audit anyone's tax morale. It is like if I were to ask Apple if they check that everyone selling apps on their app store is paying their income taxe.

[torndeco 128]

Small recommendation, it might be worth making a standard format for listing server ip's, or a seperate file with server ip listings.

Currently its a mixture of server ip / text description of server + ip / webpage link.

That way in the future when/if the list gets bigger.

It will be possible to make an application that grabs the list of allowed servers + checks them against steam server browser.

Would make it slight bit easier for addon creators to check that servers on Monetization have permission from themselves, without having to check every link manually.

[Johny 25]

We are looking into making the list a bit clearer. Plus we are exploring an option of having monetized servers visualized in the in-game server browser.

[Johny 25]

Hello everyone,

it has been almost half a year since we published the server monetization rules and we have approved a few servers, denied quite a lot more and there has been a significant number of people who just switched to voluntary donations.

So since there has been a lot of questions and worthwhile feedback in the beginning I would like to ask you for your opinion and notes on the whole thing now, when you had a chance to observe it in real world for some time.

As always, your feedback is much appreciated!

[dscha 147]

I was very very sceptic, when it came to this (mostly: How to enforce it?!).

 

 

Since we had an small argument with ppl, who used (not only) ours Content and refused to take it off, and BI reacted as we wished... my skepticism changed alot.

Those guys were forced to remove it (How? No idea. And i don't wanna know) and they did it. *ThumbsUp*
After all, something was done to gain trust in this.

 

I still don't like the fact, that you are able to accept Donations + get anything as "reward" back, but this is another page of the book.

 

Greetz

[Johny 25]

Thanks Dscha. It is nice to hear we were able to turn your opinion and help you.

[K-Town 128]

I really like the idea that people running these expensive servers have a legal way of helping to pay for them, but sometimes the donator perks they offer almost make the server pay-to-play.

For instance, a server I was playing on limited the Mohawk to $20 donators only and that had to be recurring every month. That can seriously impact game-play when there is a helicopter that can carry 15+ people and can sustain most gunshots when there are a number of people who can't afford $20 every month for a virtual helicopter.

 

Unfortunately there really isn't any easy way of enforcing rules to limit how much is put into donator perks, but maybe there can be an official "honor system"? I can think of a number of servers that wouldn't follow the honor system, but it could be used as kind of a virtual "certification" for servers. There are a lot of people that could find value in servers that follow a good honor system and those servers would get quite a bit of traffic then forcing other servers to compete with that.

[Johny 25]

If there is a server with pay to win perks, then please use the contact us button here http://www.bistudio.com/monetizationand send us more details and we will take steps to make sure the proprietor of the server understands whose perks are not allowed.

Incidentally that link also features a list of approved server which may use the non-gameplay affecting perks. It is not exactly the honor system you are proposing, but I think it is close.

[sargken 286]

Whats is your definition of Pay to Win?

[Richie 330]

Whats is your definition of Pay to Win?

 

Paying money and getting an item that is not cosmetic :unsure:

[dscha 147]

Whats is your definition of Pay to Win?

http://www.bistudio.com/monetization/faq

[Johny 25]

Anything that affects gameplay is not allowed. 
The faq link above is a good starting point and also this thread is full of examples and explanations and you may always ask here or use the contact form on the website if you have an example you are unsure of.

[chris5790 24]

In my opinion it was the wrong way to stop servers such as A3L creating a pay to win model. Some servers just afford some discounts ( e.g. 20% off) just for paying the costs they have. I would include also discounts with a limit of x percent because they don't affect gameplay too much. 

[Johny 25]

I am sorry you feel this way. From our perspective we did not stop anything as it has never been allowed to monetize the game (besides the videos and donations).

This server monetization gave server owners several options to monetize and improve their donation systems with cosmetic rewards for donators, but at the same time our goal was to make sure everyone in the community may have the same gameplay features regardless of their budget.

[destruktoid 16]

This server monetization gave server owners several options to monetize and improve their donation systems with cosmetic rewards for donators, but at the same time our goal was to make sure everyone in the community may have the same gameplay features regardless of their budget.

 

While I fully agree that all players should have full access to a community's gameplay features without having to pay, I believe servers should still be allowed to use discounts as a reward for donations as opposed to restrictions. An example of this is Battlefield 4's 'Shortcut Packs', where all players have access to the same content, but people can elect to pay some additional money to obtain weapons, equipment etcetera faster. There are no restrictions in place for anyone, rather those who are impatient or have the money to spare have the option to do something faster. Being a server administrator myself, I've seen this system as an effective method of supporting the community without giving someone any sort of restriced advantage.

[falagor 99]

Altis Life is now authorized for monetization by its author. http://www.altisliferpg.com/topic/11876-releasing-the-flood-gates-monetization/A big change, this was not possible until now. Monetizers still need to comply with our rules: http://www.bistudio.com/monetization