ai command dlc C2 -Command And Control

[karatekid 10]

Hey Madcheese!

1) Your mode is fantastic! I always loved the Swat and the Rainbow series and now i can play them in the armaverse, but (here comes the 2).. :D )

2)Maybe i'm a dumbass, but how can i set up multipe waypoint in a building? In planning mode i click on a building when 1 selected a unit.Ok.After it it gives default the house icon and set to buildingpos0, but after where should i point&clic with to give "another house icon" like the first one? Sometimes i can do some magic random clicking and get another houseicons(so the WP is inside the building) sometimes not.. Most of the times it give to my guy a "normal"."outside" waypoint (i mean i can't select the buildingpos blabla) i hope you understand and forgive my english..

[mad_cheese 592]

Hey Madcheese!

1) Your mode is fantastic! I always loved the Swat and the Rainbow series and now i can play them in the armaverse, but (here comes the 2).. :D )

2)Maybe i'm a dumbass, but how can i set up multipe waypoint in a building? In planning mode i click on a building when 1 selected a unit.Ok.After it it gives default the house icon and set to buildingpos0, but after where should i point&clic with to give "another house icon" like the first one? Sometimes i can do some magic random clicking and get another houseicons(so the WP is inside the building) sometimes not.. Most of the times it give to my guy a "normal"."outside" waypoint (i mean i can't select the buildingpos blabla) i hope you understand and forgive my english..

Ha! It IS a bot of a Strange Setup so no worries :)

The problem is that the grey markers on the map are not very informative. They are depending on the building's boundingBox and unfortunately they frequently include sidewalks or pavement-like bits of concrete. So if you get a regular waypoint, it means you clicked outside of the actual building, yet still within the bounding box. Hope that makes sense, anyways to prevent this just click in the center of the buildings. Then next, routes within buildings are only ideal with single unit selections. It works just like building positions in the 2d editor, all wp's default to BPos 0, so Change each one right after placing it by right-clicking on the waypoint marker. Keep bpos 0 free because it is possible to have two waypoints on top of each other.

Now, multiple unit selections will just be distributed over the building. Only the bpos of the leader can be altered because of the way that hub-wp's are managed at the moment. Hope that helps!

[karatekid 10]

Thanks for your reply! I was just looking for a way, how could i set up an autonomous room to room building clean waypoint collection for the AI but, i should've remember that we are talking about the Arma engine.. But if you have any idea for it please let me know.

 

And my other question is that is it any chance that in the future if we click on a building it shows instead the buildingpositions the actual 'ground plan' of the building(where are the rooms/doors etc.)?I think it wouldn't be a bigger 'cheat' than the current system.

Ha! It IS a bot of a Strange Setup so no worries :)

The problem is that the grey markers on the map are not very informative. They are depending on the building's boundingBox and unfortunately they frequently include sidewalks or pavement-like bits of concrete. So if you get a regular waypoint, it means you clicked outside of the actual building, yet still within the bounding box. Hope that makes sense, anyways to prevent this just click in the center of the buildings. Then next, routes within buildings are only ideal with single unit selections. It works just like building positions in the 2d editor, all wp's default to BPos 0, so Change each one right after placing it by right-clicking on the waypoint marker. Keep bpos 0 free because it is possible to have two waypoints on top of each other.

Now, multiple unit selections will just be distributed over the building. Only the bpos of the leader can be altered because of the way that hub-wp's are managed at the moment. Hope that helps!

[ebarstad 18]

Just a bit of a heads up: I just tried the 1.56 RC and C2 wasn't working. The 3D pucks don't show up (throws a createVehicle error, I think) and, in the tablet, your squad mates aren't listed (also throws an error, but I didn't catch what it was). Mind you, I was just previewing a 3D editor mission not playing an actual scenario. I've gone back to stable branch because I don't want to play w/o C2.

[mad_cheese 592]

Thanks for your reply! I was just looking for a way, how could i set up an autonomous room to room building clean waypoint collection for the AI but, i should've remember that we are talking about the Arma engine.. But if you have any idea for it please let me know.

 

And my other question is that is it any chance that in the future if we click on a building it shows instead the buildingpositions the actual 'ground plan' of the building(where are the rooms/doors etc.)?I think it wouldn't be a bigger 'cheat' than the current system.

I don't know how to answer that other than... You can do it. But you have to do it and it will take time, just like the planning stage in Door Kickers for example is a big part of the game. I find that you can memorize certain aspects of a building (or the map in general) and it's actually not that hard to distinguish the buildings from just looking at the map and the preview.

Ground plans seem unlikely, but anything that I learn, I'll do. I'm pretty sure that I can make more universal functions by fetching info from CfgVehicles, so let's see! But there's so little norm in the setup of building models. It's always gonna be a problem.

 

 

Just a bit of a heads up: I just tried the 1.56 RC and C2 wasn't working. The 3D pucks don't show up (throws a createVehicle error, I think) and, in the tablet, your squad mates aren't listed (also throws an error, but I didn't catch what it was). Mind you, I was just previewing a 3D editor mission not playing an actual scenario. I've gone back to stable branch because I don't want to play w/o C2.

Oh damn.. Well, Dev build is always a gamble. Might work today, then not tomorrow, but the day after. I wanted C2 to be clearly stable branch, but the AutoDanger stuff was enough to make an exception. I am traveling for a month so I'll have to see what the situation is like when I come back ;) thx tho!!

[mad_cheese 592]

@reggaeman007jah

I think that would be cool, but I don't really know how to do it without redesigning the entire dialog - is that possible? Would be awesome, but I only know of cases where different devices are used for the same thing, like for example ACE's DAGR vs MicroDAGR

If you have any pointers I'm definitely thankful, same goes for other ideas and possible improvements.

on a different note: I realize that many people see C2 as 'too complicated'. I don't really know if it's because of the amount of options or because it could be more accessible. I'd like to ask all of you: if there's something, in particular regarding unit selection and movement order, that you think could be better done - what is it and how can I improve it? Really curious about opinions. Only thing I'd ask to keep in mind is the default Arma 3 keyboard layout. Thanks in advance 😊

[S.Crowe 142]

I was thinking about the units being stuck. What if you could switch to that unit zeus style. It wouldn't be cheating, but it would allow you to move the unit from the stuck area?

 

Just an idea.

 

I don't think C2 will appeal to every player. I've known a few Arma players who can barely install a mod, and for people like that, C2 just wont fit their play style. The best you could do is create a new tutorial video.

[mad_cheese 592]

I don't think C2 will appeal to every player. I've known a few Arma players who can barely install a mod, and for people like that, C2 just wont fit their play style. The best you could do is create a new tutorial video.

I guess so, sometimes I myself just wish it would be even easier. I watch a lot of other games and the common denominator is restriction. I'm a one man army and sometimes it gets hard to think outside the box, in case someone has the super slick brainfart, I am completely open for it! 

 

The tutorials are a great point tho. A complete one is totally needed and could dress this issue.

 

I was thinking about the units being stuck. What if you could switch to that unit zeus style. It wouldn't be cheating, but it would allow you to move the unit from the stuck area?

 

Thanks for that reminder! I think I could make a pseudo "Glitch function" that tests the unit's environment and then slowly moves it towards an empty position. It could maybe be more drastic in SP, but in MP it is important for me that the units can still be shot at to prevent teleport-cheats :)

I promise to put something in the next update, at this point it's a priority as tbh I forget that I constantly use the debug console for exactly that.

[avibird 1 141]

I for one love your mod. I have all of the control commands working on a xbox controller not the keyboard. It is very simple not to  complicated at all :).  Players who love using AI will love your mod the bottom line most players don't like using AI. Keep up the great work. Avibird.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

I for one love your mod. I have all of the control commands working on a xbox controller not the keyboard. It is very simple not to  complicated at all :).  Players who love using AI will love your mod the bottom line most players don't like using AI. Keep up the great work. Avibird.

Interesting.

I actually play ARMA 90% on an XBOX controller (and almost exclusively alone with AI) and the only reason I DON'T use this mod is due to being nervous about having to reconfigure my Xpadder profile or have to learn new keyboard controls (I currently solely use my keyboard for controlling AI because I don't have enough buttons left on my controller to use to command them with).

Very interesting. I may need to give this another look.

I was actually going to say this yesterday when Mad Cheese asked about what he could do to make people use the mod more. My reason? It not using the identical bindings as vanilla AI control.

Thanks for sharing this bit. I'll have to play around with this and see if I can make a new modifier in Xpadder to give me some buttons back.

[S.Crowe 142]

How you guys play this game (from an infantry standpoint) on a controller is beyond me  :wacko:

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

How do you guys play this game (from an infantry standpoint) on a controller is beyond me :wacko:

I'm using a slightly modified version of ExistentialEgg's ARMA 3 Xpadder profile. I can do all infantry actions, including all crouches and stances and paces and leans, and all driving and swimming controls all from a controller.

I still need the keyboard for AI control and let's not talk about helicopter flying. :)

But yeah, 90% of the game can be played on a controller exclusively and honestly, if I was more motivated to learn Xpadder, I think if I had one or two more working modifier buttons, I could do all 100%. Don't listen to the haters on Steam forums.

Almost 600 hours I've played this way. Including with a milsim MP group from time to time.

[Gwynbleidd 28]

It's pretty amazing what you did with this mod. Couple of months ago when I stumbled on this, it really did seem great, but I was put off because I could rebind only couple of keys, so it was interfering with vanilla stuff (also there was no option to toggle off numpad formations).

Downloaded it again, and as I'm going through the .pdf getting my bearings, and rebinding keys, I'm really excited to try this out in a game.

However, at the end of the .pdf, I noticed something about putting a line to missions init.sqf if you don't want the mod to mess with your AI skill.

Is there a chance you could make this an in game option, or make an optional file in the mod that we need to place / remove to toggle this option? Pretty much any other option that does not involve editing every single mission that you want to play to disable this (if I understood that correctly?).

 

Anyway, thanks for the mod :)

[ineptaphid 6413]

I'm using a slightly modified version of ExistentialEgg's ARMA 3 Xpadder profile. I can do all infantry actions, including all crouches and stances and paces and leans, and all driving and swimming controls all from a controller.

I still need the keyboard for AI control and let's not talk about helicopter flying. :)

But yeah, 90% of the game can be played on a controller exclusively and honestly, if I was more motivated to learn Xpadder, I think if I had one or two more working modifier buttons, I could do all 100%. Don't listen to the haters on Steam forums.

Almost 600 hours I've played this way. Including with a milsim MP group from time to time.

Me too-I just hit 1600 hours and I use an xpadder profile controller for everything-infantry,vehicle,flying -everything :)

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

Me too-I just hit 1600 hours and I use an xpadder profile controller for everything-infantry,vehicle,flying -everything :)

Last post on the subject, but I'd like to see this profile. :)

[reggaeman007jah 31]

@reggaeman007jah

I think that would be cool, but I don't really know how to do it without redesigning the entire dialog - is that possible? Would be awesome, but I only know of cases where different devices are used for the same thing, like for example ACE's DAGR vs MicroDAGR

If you have any pointers I'm definitely thankful, same goes for other ideas and possible improvements.

on a different note: I realize that many people see C2 as 'too complicated'. I don't really know if it's because of the amount of options or because it could be more accessible. I'd like to ask all of you: if there's something, in particular regarding unit selection and movement order, that you think could be better done - what is it and how can I improve it? Really curious about opinions. Only thing I'd ask to keep in mind is the default Arma 3 keyboard layout. Thanks in advance

Yo, thanks for getting back .. Unfortunately I do not have any experience designing GUI elements, but it is something I would love to learn (I have a lame idea for a GUI that manages ARMA flares... Maybe one day). If anyone has any advice on this generally, I'd be all ears :)

Having played this game for just over a year, I am very aware of the daunting prospect of using mods; bloody easy now, but when I started out I had to google everything (like everyone else of course)... Easy when you know how, but I guess it would pay to have newer players in mind as well as more exp'd players.

What if you were to offer the user a 'Basic' and 'Advanced' version, configurable when you first start the mission, or possibly via the tablet view? You could take some of the more complex and cool features that take some getting used to (Go codes, building positions?) and escalate them to an advanced view, leaving just core features for someone who wants to just shift their AI players around. Just a thought for consideration. I honestly do not know how hard this is to configure and code, so tell me to shut up if that's a stupid idea ;)

Personally, I love the circular dialog interface. If has so much cascading potential, and is very intuitive. IMHO, developing this element would lead to a whole bunch of happy(ier) users 8D

And, for what it's worth, I would deffo support a "fire on my lead" command, that triggers action when you start shooting (apologies originator from earlier on in the thread, I can't recall your user name, but great idea).

Cheers man

** EDIT **

@froggyluv : fire on my lead

[mad_cheese 592]

Thanks a LOT for your answers guys :)

 

I guess there's just that gap between simplicity on the one hand and the open-ness of Arma on the other hand. I got a bit surprised with a small exodus on STEAM but that may very well just be a peak of how many people even have a need for these options. I got a bit concerned after some critical reviews where I felt like the controls were not understood in the first place, so since I consider that my responsibility I felt I needed to improve something. 

 

I started working on a tutorial mission before I left. I guess that may actually help a lot, also I might make a video series with a complete tutorial and also some specific situations such as raids etc.

 

The controller idea is crazy - I would have never considered that lol. I will buy a controller just to see what that's about! I'd be happy to include profiles in the add-on's download (with the proper crediting) if you are interested in contributing! Same goes for voice activation profiles, for anyone who uses those!

 

As for the skill reset and the NUMPad option - thanks for that reminder, I should have made a pause menu for global settings like that anyways!! Makes SO much more sense :)

[Incontinentia 339]

Thanks a LOT for your answers guys :)

 

I guess there's just that gap between simplicity on the one hand and the open-ness of Arma on the other hand. I got a bit surprised with a small exodus on STEAM but that may very well just be a peak of how many people even have a need for these options. I got a bit concerned after some critical reviews where I felt like the controls were not understood in the first place, so since I consider that my responsibility I felt I needed to improve something. 

 

I started working on a tutorial mission before I left. I guess that may actually help a lot, also I might make a video series with a complete tutorial and also some specific situations such as raids etc.

 

The controller idea is crazy - I would have never considered that lol. I will buy a controller just to see what that's about! I'd be happy to include profiles in the add-on's download (with the proper crediting) if you are interested in contributing! Same goes for voice activation profiles, for anyone who uses those!

 

As for the skill reset and the NUMPad option - thanks for that reminder, I should have made a pause menu for global settings like that anyways!! Makes SO much more sense :)

I do think the tutorial will help a lot to get people using the mod but to be honest, what you have is already brilliant! It might not appeal to everyone's playstyle but it's added a huge amount to my ability to command the AI, which is one of the buggiest and most frustrating things in Arma. You've made it easy and pretty much intuitive so massive congratulations. For me, the most used features are the top-down command tablet and suppression, but I think the radial menu is great and really intuitive too and I use it a lot. In all, what you've done is seriously impressive so I think it's just a case of getting a simple, all-encompassing tutorial out there and uptake should rise pretty quickly. Cheers for all your effort! It's made my Arma so much more enjoyable! 

[reggaeman007jah 31]

Don't get me wrong: These are, imo, situation-specific actions. A 360 security after disembarking from a chopper - that's not so hard. But let's say you are on the ground. Then it becomes a bit more abstract and you start making human decisions that modify a perfect circle with perfect spacing into something that considers obstacles, buildings etc. If you write a dynamic system, you either can think of ALL the things that could possibly happen, and make it work. If you leave something out, you end up with something that doesn't work or looks ultra-goofy because the script does not know any better. Anyways, personal actions require a lot of these variables.

 

I am not remotely done with the 'general' aspects, so individual actions are not a priority.

Meaning the stuff that you can do with x-6-x (AI actions) will not make heavy appearances soon. I do want to take care of that at some point, but it has to make more sense than what the game has to offer. I didn't even build a function library yet as things are still just an advanced layout.

360 degree perimeter when exiting heli...

Mad Cheese - It seems like a cool idea to be able to be able to instruct 'how' your guys leave a heli. Following on from this idea (originally quoted by @john1 I think), I thought I'd share my thoughts on how it could be implemented (from a user's PoV of course). This is blue sky thinking btw. As usual, if this is too tricky, or innappropriate, just tell me to shut up :)

{--0--}

Could there be (perhaps somewhere within the tablet UI) a configuration setting to establish exactly what your guys should do once the heli has touched down? In other words, a feature specific to heli egress.

Options could be: 

* Exit and form 360 degree security perimeter (with an additional setting to set distance from heli, 5m, 10m etc). 

* Exit and return to formation

* Exit and head [8 compass directions] + [distance] ... (e.g. You could set the heli down in a clearing and tell your guys on touchdown to head north west (to tree cover) 60m South of the LZ)

* Do not exit heli on landing (I.e would wait for vanilla-menu command - disembark - from group leader)

Additional settings could be:

* Stance on exiting the heli (from three main standard choices)

* Fire discipline on exiting Heli (hold fire, fire at will etc)

* Order egress by AI-class (e.g. Have your medics exit last, or heavy gunners exit first)

By separating these sets of commands, you could offer combinations, such as:

Exit heli, head north west 100m, while crouched

Exit heli, take up 360 security, prone,

Exit heli, return to formation, medics out last

This would be a load of work for one specific scenario, namely when you and your team exit a heli. So realistically it probably wouldn't justify the work required vs the times it would be used. But like I said, blue sky thinking lol.

And lastly...

What would be super-amazing cool, and I have no idea if this could even be done but I'll throw it into the mix anyway, it to be able to apply these rules (using your awesome tablet interface) to a heli flight set through 'Unitcapture'. This would allow mission makers to 'force' the heli to land exactly where and how you want it to (using Unitcapture), regardless of incoming fire etc. To have your heli swoop in under fire, AND have your guys do exactly what you want them to do as they exit the heli would be unprecedented, and so goddamn cool. But I am bias because I am a Unitcapture/heli obsessive haha :)

I realise that this sounds like a shed load of work, but I thought I'd share it as simply an idea, that may or may not be of relevance to your design plans in the future. But if you got this far, thanks for reading :)

Cheers

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

I would like an option to EDIT the WP´s after

placed. With more options.

Now its just point and go, with watch dir.

 

1: Add separate timer for each wp. AI will stay at wp and perform as ordered

like surpressing fire, trowing smoke/grenade for a set time.

2: Add seperate stance for each wp.

3: Add more action possibillities at each wp like supressive fire and throwing nades

 

I like this ALOT as i love to play with AI´s.

 

So its not like im dissin the mod... I just want more. As allways :lol:

[john111 76]

Formation flight options,those put in are fine if implemented.

[john111 76]

Also, a way to set flightheight at between 50 ft and 1000ft.

 

with a scale and arrows to make sure it doesn`t fly any higher .

[Incontinentia 339]

Quick and easy request: could you bring back the reset stance option? Can't be bothered to micromanage my AI teammate's stances all the time after using the planner! 

[mad_cheese 592]

if this is too tricky, or innappropriate, just tell me to shut up :)

never that! :)

Could there be (perhaps somewhere within the tablet UI) a configuration setting to establish exactly what your guys should do once the heli has touched down? In other words, a feature specific to heli egress.

It totally makes sense to think of adding stuff here, but in short... it's complicated. I am probably going to add 360 security as that is a very standard procedure, maybe add a circle marker that you can resize with LMB to adjust the radius. I play in the 506thIR and that's pretty much all we do so that's a good place to start

 

* Order egress by AI-class (e.g. Have your medics exit last, or heavy gunners exit first)

I LIKE THAT!!! meep meep.

 

And lastly... [...] unitcapture.

At some point when all the madness is over with, I do want to make a mission maker version of C2 where you can simply copy the order array and use it in your missions to create badass AI movements that are more detailed than waypoints. Basically like a "C2 unit capture" :) I know that's not what you mean tho... but you could use unit capture with a bunch of units inside, have them disembark and then use that function to make it look like one big orchestrated maneuver.

 

 

I would like an option to EDIT the WP´s after

placed. With more options.

Yup! that's in the making. The right click context menu is pretty basic right now because it is only one ListBox. Why? Coz I don't know any better lol. I am traveling at the moment but I'm reading about controlGroups. SO once I got that figured out back home, I dream of a nice context sensitive menu that gives you all the crap you need :)

 

1: Add separate timer for each wp. AI will stay at wp and perform as ordered

like surpressing fire, trowing smoke/grenade for a set time.

2: Add seperate stance for each wp.

3: Add more action possibillities at each wp like supressive fire and throwing nades

umm you can do all of this already? but right now you can only throw smoke grenades.

there is a timeout option in the tablet. If you let the unit throw smoke, you can use the timer to wait until the smoke unfolds. Shift + LMB on the smokegrenade icon changes it to suppression. The timeout dictates how long the unit will suppress, if you don't use it the unit will just pop a few shots (looks awkward)

 

Formation flight options,those put in are fine if implemented.

I'll have to pass on that one. I'm glad the hell's don't crash into each other much. Since WP's are individual (which is actually the reason why they work), there is no checks or interactions happening between pilots or vehicles. It's sort of an illusion.

 

Also, a way to set flightheight at between 50 ft and 1000ft.

I had issues with flying heights, tested them HARDCORE but it was a while back. I opted to use the most reliable heights, that's why you can't enter them freely like the timeout for example.

 

Quick and easy request: could you bring back the reset stance option? Can't be bothered to micromanage my AI teammate's stances all the time after using the planner!

I will add auto-stance to the planning tablet, I simply didn't have the time for that. Also, if the script detects a break away from the tablet orders, I want to set them back into 'auto'. There's other things, so if that's not what you mean, 'Quick and easy' may not be the right description.

Thanks again everybody I appreciate the input!

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

 

SO once I got that figured out back home, I dream of a nice context sensitive menu that gives you all the crap you need

NICE to hear....

Now, im using steam as you may know...How do i switch the

key from shift´tab to "something else"?