Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[A.Cyprus 16]

Because ignorant ppl will always exist to buy the game, irrespective of BI actions in this particular case, the same way ignorant ppl will always exist to donate or play A3L.

There is no direct impact to BI.

I expect if a group was selling undetectable pirate keys for the game, there would most definitely be action against it.

[Itsyuka 10]

Or you know, if this keeps up and BI does absolutely nothing to help the content creators, we might as well stop creating content and developing for BI otherwise all of this will continue to happen. This will definitely will hurt BI's reputation as an independent company ignoring it's players.

[A.Cyprus 16]

Same way ppl won't stop playing A3L, devs won't stop devving mods.

It's a sad thing but in these cases the boycotter is only harming himself.

[StevenW129 10]

Well lets be honest, the content creators don't make content with commercial intentions. They make because they want to do something new for the community to experience such as more/better guns or new maps/vehicles. I will keep putting this point across until Bohemia actually understands, but why should they keep creating content when there's people like Caiden who come and take the content, put it in a "modpack" in which he then gains revenue from because it's used in a commercial way. The content creator gets absolutely nothing whereas Caiden gets $30 a pop because of the closed beta bullshit.

[teaboy 11]

You all do realise that legal action is complex and time consuming. Forcing A3L offline for good is not something BI can do overnight, first they must mediate with the owners/operators of A3L to get them to cease and desist, if that fails, then legal action would be needed (especially if they using their own servers). Then you have the added complexity of international boundaries, jurisdiction etc. You can't take someone to court if they in a different country (unless an agreement exists between your country and the country (or countries) they are resident in), you have to go to their country regardless since they'll be defendants - it same for each defendant, meaning BI may have to make claims in courts of various countries to get all the operators to cease and desist etc.

But on top of that, in order for legal action to be successful, you need to build a solid case against the defendants. The onous of proof is on BIS, to prove they are in breach of license agreement, to proof they are using modders creations without their consent. That can take months to do!!

End of day BIS said they are looking into it, they are not however going to give A3L operators a heads up by publicly stating what they going to do here now are they?! Especially when doing so could do more harm then good. I.e. if they say anything now that a court later disagrees with they could find themselves being counter sued for libel!

[GSP167 1]

You all do realise that legal action is complex and time consuming. Forcing A3L offline for good is not something BI can do overnight, first they must mediate with the owners/operators of A3L to get them to cease and desist, if that fails, then legal action would be needed (especially if they using their own servers). Then you have the added complexity of international boundaries, jurisdiction etc. You can't take someone to court if they in a different country (unless an agreement exists between your country and the country (or countries) they are resident in), you have to go to their country regardless since they'll be defendants - it same for each defendant, meaning BI may have to make claims in courts of various countries to get all the operators to cease and desist etc.

But on top of that, in order for legal action to be successful, you need to build a solid case against the defendants. The onous of proof is on BIS, to prove they are in breach of license agreement, to proof they are using modders creations without their consent. That can take months to do!!

End of day BIS said they are looking into it, they are not however going to give A3L operators a heads up by publicly stating what they going to do here now are they?! Especially when doing so could do more harm then good. I.e. if they say anything now that a court later disagrees with they could find themselves being counter sued for libel!

I'm pretty sure BIS has ways to disable servers, good example would be blacklisting them from the server list where people won't be able to find them. Another example would be to make the server non-joinable, I'm pretty sure that's something BIS is able to do.

[StevenW129 10]

I'm pretty sure BIS has ways to disable servers, good example would be blacklisting them from the server list where people won't be able to find them. Another example would be to make the server non-joinable, I'm pretty sure that's something BIS is able to do.

No point blacklisting them from the server list, they use a launcher anyway.

[MINKA 14]

Instead of hitting hard at the people who are doing it, BIS can just simply go to the service provider and hand them an email saying they need to restrict A3L from hosting ArmA 3 otherwise the service provider will get a cease and desist order. Service Providers usually take legal issues very seriously, So if BIS tell them to take the server off for copyright and license infringement, Then they will.

[teaboy 11]

Instead of hitting hard at the people who are doing it, BIS can just simply go to the service provider and hand them an email saying they need to restrict A3L from hosting ArmA 3 otherwise the service provider will get a cease and desist order. Service Providers usually take legal issues very seriously, So if BIS tell them to take the server off for copyright and license infringement, Then they will.

But if they own the servers themselves - Then it not that easy.

Plus whats to stop them from just signing up with another service provider, or getting their own server(s) if they not already using their own?!

[miketim 20]

Service Providers usually take legal issues very seriously, So if BIS tell them to take the server off for copyright and license infringement, Then they will.

This^

Also you register with a service provider using your credit card and name etc, if the A3L owner is devloping a bad rep with the service provider, maybe :confused: another one may have this information and not accept their request. I think that probably isn't a very likely scenario but, hmm .. maybe there is a "blacklist" for service providers ??

Also, as others have said, BI cannot block their servers from the game... think about WHAT their servers are for a minute...

Just a server with a name, that runs a mission, with specific mods and scripts on there...

Technologically, you can not "identify" them...

You can search name for "A3L" "arma 3 life" string and then hide.. ok that is possible... but

even if they somehow did that (which they wont, its a bad solution)...

A3L can just run (Insert modset here) ... isnt a magical server, still a Arma 3 sever running X mods.. cant differentiate it.

And maybe someone will suggest just.. say, block their modset, simply isnt a logical solution, and frankly not really a possible one either.

Remember that these are just arma 3 servers running specific mods, scripts and missions, and nothing makes them magically identifiable.

And obviously BI cannot just ban their IP or something, they will just buy another server, so that is the obviously impossible solution.

So yeah, just remember how A3L servers are not magical and cant just be "blocked" specially with a magic method, think about this in terms of business and technological capabilities of BI (the engine, IP/internet related stuff, etc)

Also how they can just buy new servers and a new service provider...

Also: come to think of it, honestly its more or less impossible to block them from buying new servers, even if all service providers agreed to ban them... they can just register with a new credit card, name etc

Edited November 3, 2014 by MikeTim

[Dr_Defimus 10]

as far as i know Batteleye can be set up so it will block the server. And good luck for A3L to use a not Batteleye protected server ....

[lightspeed_aust 681]

This thread got to 36 pages? Some ppl need to get a life seriously.

[Westonsammy 1]

This thread got to 36 pages? Some ppl need to get a life seriously.

Does it really take that much time or effort to type up a forum post? I probably text the equivalent of half of this post to people every day.

Also people love controversy and defending their community values, so expect posts like this to get a lot of attention really fast.

[GSP167 1]

This thread got to 36 pages? Some ppl need to get a life seriously.

Because we are standing up for what's right. If you wanna be a sheep and not care about anything in life then that's on you...

[m1lkm8n 411]

Because we are standing up for what's right. If you wanna be a sheep and not care about anything in life then that's on you...

Thank you!!

I guess he doesn't mind if his content gets stolen and used to profit from..

[MINKA 14]

Yeah but if BIS personally message PayPal about the abuse against the EULA using PayPal as a method of collecting illegally gained money... PayPal will limit the accounts from usage until they complete an investigation into the matter, A3L purchase things and services via PayPal btw. So you can block a PayPal account easy as anything since you are only allowed 1 and they limit any multiples you have if they find you.

[I give up 152]

Most likely BIS are doing what they can and probably they are letting this thread to live because at this point is the only thing that can denounce the situation.

From what I am allowed to see in matters of legality there are 2 completely different situations, one is the mods and its copyright and the other is the BIS software copyright.

About mods copyright or mods authors legal rights, this is not a black and white situation.

An author when publishing his work, wanting to have his rights protected, needs to register his product setting the copyright guidelines, obviously this cost money. Having some phrases at bottom of his work as a matter of copyright guidelines is not enough in matters of protection and also in legal matters this is not considered.

However, assuming that there are mods having the requirements to be considered copyright material, must be the authors to move forward with legal actions, here BIS can't do much.

About BIS copyright in matters of game, also here is not a black and white situation.

Basically A3L is doing the following, they have some sort of private club/group where the access/membership is upon payment, being a member they will give access to some features and services. These services basically are, some features on their website and access to private servers (only available for members) that are running ArmA 3.

Legal regulamentation about these procedures is basically blank, which makes very difficult to advance with a legal action (with chances to succeed) based on these facts.

In short this is not a easy or simple situation, I believe it will be community that will dictate the future for these situations, accepting and adhering or refusing and declining.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Bratwurste

[MINKA 14]

The section about the modders rights itself is very true in a manner of speaking, Where a person who creates modifications may not demand to have their addons removed from a server via BIS. Should a user create their own user license persay. which upon or pre-download the person receiving the addons reads it, They can claim right to dictate where the addons may be redistributed, Or where it may be advertised. This very right is seen through City Life. ArmA 3 Life, as you know, stole CLRPG's towtruck and advertised it on YouTube, City Life requested YouTube to have the video pulled for infringing copyrights, And since YouTube saw this claim to be valid, the video was pulled.

It is up to the people, like my self, to make Licenses and claim rights so that we can exercise those rights when we feel the need to, like now.

As for BIS' Section, I will use what I have come to understand to try explain,

As you say, ArmA 3 Life give access to a 'private' server which only members can get in, and it just so happens that a member must become such by paying. They are allowed to charge their members for the Donator Rank in their forums and on their community, But the second money is required to join a server, doesnt matter if the circumstances are direct or indirectly paying for it, like the system they have now, It then becomes an infringement on the ArmA 3 EULA.

Making someone pay for a rank in the community is itself commercial, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the ArmA 3 Server has become part of that commercial plan, which is no buenos. BIS do have a right to give people a cease and desist directly in which case the recipient MUST remove the program or "destroy" the program in BIS' words. If this action were to be aimed towards the company/s who service A3L, It would be valid as they have been notified(by tonic) of the infractions on the EULA and some of the Addon Creators rights. And, as was mentioned earlier in this discussion by a member, PayPal are willing to launch an investigation into this matter which will result in a limitation of the PayPal account associated with ArmA 3 Life and all accounts which are evidently connected to Caiden.

Im not saying what I am stating here is 100% correct, I am simply making an opinion in respect to yours based on my understanding :) not tryna be a dick

[icebreakr 3157]

When someone mentiones "help us out with our life mod" all I can hear in my head is "it is really not a pyramid scheme"...

[Necramonium 10]

they have some sort of private club/group where the access/membership is upon payment, being a member they will give access to some features and services. These services basically are, some features on their website and access to private servers (only available for members) that are running ArmA 3.

Another person who doesn't know what he is talking about, as of now you can get access even without a payment.

[JdB 151]

Another person who doesn't know what he is talking about, as of now you can get access even without a payment.

Legal liability for past actions doesn't end after you've changed your business practices.

[naizarak 4]

so is BIS actually gonna do anything about this, or is it all the same to them as long as game units keep moving?

[MINKA 14]

so is BIS actually gonna do anything about this, or is it all the same to them as long as game units keep moving?

BIS will probably not do much for now, But until the wider community start pressuring them and the big addon creators start applying the same pressure, They will eventually do something. Getting players is not an issue for BIS as MANW is aimed at basically creating the next 'DayZ' so that they will have another coming of 'Jesus' persay. So if BIS want to help out the people who have been wronged, and themselves who have been severely wronged(We did math, About 18-20 grand worth of wronged), then BIS will do something :)

[GSP167 1]

Another person who doesn't know what he is talking about, as of now you can get access even without a payment.

Wrong. They pretty much force you to pay, you "have to be active" on their forums for some time, THEN they might consider letting you in. Paying them will skip this step. Any good lawyer could argue you that this is some sort of trick to force people into handing over money, and therefore against BI's TOS/EULA.

[ArmaPilot 1]

Not lying on this one, a friend I know was talking about his friend knowing one of A3L's Head Admins that was bragging about his new truck he bought with the 'donation' money.