Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)

[DancZer 65]

And there are many people like this. If they make this optional everybody will disable it and the feature and lot of work move into the trash.

Edit: Somebody should make a poll with a good formed options.

Edited November 14, 2014 by danczer

[machineabuse 11]

I think a native option to disable sway is rather extreme. A community based option will surely surface. I sympathize with the players who are having difficulties with the aiming system from a usability standpoint but it's difficult to dispute that it's a great equalizer between players who play more deliberately and players who have the twitch skills to exploit.

I maintain though that the specifics of the simulation of both inertia and sway can and should be improved upon to be more natural and intuitive. The overall effect on target acquisition is correct but for many it feels worse than it is due to the choice of abstraction.

[bad benson 1733]

I think a native option to disable sway is rather extreme.

agreed. it would be great to have a multiplier command for example instead of the only the on off switch. although i feel that the current system has more indepth balancing flaws that would still be present with it set to 50%, if not more problematic due to certain things becoming too easy. what is needed is balancing of "duty" values in the anim tree and maybe some reevaluation of atleast the visual side of max sway.

i mean the idea of having such features is great and i see similar stuff making other games feel more organic and convincing and stuff. the thing is that in arma 3 it almost seems like the people who made the features turned them up a lot so they are really noticable. it's the bubble effect that can happen with your own creation. because otherwise you feel like you created the feature for nothing. it's like "here look at it, we made these things, LOOK AT IT!" ;)

instead though, the features could be great if they would be more subtle and balanced. that's why i find the term mini game very fitting. it reached a degree where it became a really forced game mechanic instead of a complementary set of features that increase realism and organic feel.

so it would be a shame (or already is with certain servers) to have none of these features being present at all or the current set up as the only options. "_unit enablefatigue false" has been suggested a lot in these threads. but what people forget is that it basically breaks those features 100%. which means sprinting without any limitation etc. that can't be the solution.

and since the consensus seems to be that these features are more about balance and penalty than realism/common sense i would suggest really focusing on what one wants to achieve with them and balance accordingly.

penalizing one man army loadouts, penalizing sprinting. currently it seems like the system is trying to take care of more things than it is capable of. the result is frustrating not in terms of difficulty, anyone can compensate sway, but in terms of stuff not being convincing, authentic, reasonable, immersive etc. i mean please just look at the video posted above again. compensation or not, does that not look ridiculous?

arma was never "run'n'gun" without these features. so i think it's time to reevaluate the balance intentions and resume to tweaking. it would be a shame if the unclunking Smookie did with the anims would be undone by this.

[giorgygr 61]

@Bad B

As i already stated the "Fatigue system" and the speed consequences depending weight is VERY WELL DONE so far.

Idk..maybe more expert people than me can make it EVEN better and EVEN MORE realistic.

"Sway system?"...this.....this is different FPDR

[-Coulum- 35]

agreed. it would be great to have a multiplier command for example instead of the only the on off switch. although i feel that the current system has more indepth balancing flaws that would still be present with it set to 50%, if not more problematic due to certain things becoming too easy. what is needed is balancing of "duty" values in the anim tree and maybe some reevaluation of atleast the visual side of max sway.

i mean the idea of having such features is great and i see similar stuff making other games feel more organic and convincing and stuff. the thing is that in arma 3 it almost seems like the people who made the features turned them up a lot so they are really noticable. it's the bubble effect that can happen with your own creation. because otherwise you feel like you created the feature for nothing. it's like "here look at it, we made these things, LOOK AT IT!"

instead though, the features could be great if they would be more subtle and balanced. that's why i find the term mini game very fitting. it reached a degree where it became a really forced game mechanic instead of a complementary set of features that increase realism and organic feel.

so it would be a shame (or already is with certain servers) to have none of these features being present at all or the current set up as the only options. "_unit enablefatigue false" has been suggested a lot in these threads. but what people forget is that it basically breaks those features 100%. which means sprinting without any limitation etc. that can't be the solution.

and since the consensus seems to be that these features are more about balance and penalty than realism/common sense i would suggest really focusing on what one wants to achieve with them and balance accordingly.

penalizing one man army loadouts, penalizing sprinting. currently it seems like the system is trying to take care of more things than it is capable of. the result is frustrating not in terms of difficulty, anyone can compensate sway, but in terms of stuff not being convincing, authentic, reasonable, immersive etc. i mean please just look at the video posted above again. compensation or not, does that not look ridiculous?

arma was never "run'n'gun" without these features. so i think it's time to reevaluate the balance intentions and resume to tweaking. it would be a shame if the unclunking Smookie did with the anims would be undone by this.

Good points. It seems that the the issue is hard to tackle because many are addressing different parts of the sway. Ie. I keep my fatigue low ingame. So when I talk about sway, I am talking about sway with around 0-30% fatigue. On the other hand, someone else, who doesn't manage fatigue as well, is talking about sway with 30-60% fatigue. Your going to hear two very different stories regarding how reasonable the sway is.

I think it would help everyone if we all specify the exact fatigue ranges where we see problems with sway.

For me personally, after testing with various fatigues, I find that in the early fatigue stage, sway is really good. I would almost dare to say perfect. At 0-35% I think that the amount of sway, and the amount of activity/time it takes to build up the sway is really well done.

The problems start after this point. From 35-50% sway might be reasonable

if

you had just been doing some really strenuous stuff - sprinting, lugging heavy stuff, doing alot of ducking/dodging diving. But it is too much to be gained from just a normal jog, even if you have run a significant distant.

And anything over 50% is pretty messed up. The sway starts bouncing rapidly and it looks like the character is deliberately jerking his gun around. There is no need for that.

However, prone sway I think is pretty good all throughout the fatigue spectrum.

In summary, my opinion is not that the sway needs to be scaled down, but rather the extremes need to be chopped off. And of course alot more work on the hold breath system. But I am interested how you guys would break down the Parts of fatigue and how they relate to sway.

penalizing one man army loadouts, penalizing sprinting. currently it seems like the system is trying to take care of more things than it is capable of.

Yes I agree. basically there is no difference between the effects of quick but rapid activities vs long but easy activities - ie quick sprinting vs long jogs. In the other thread you were mentioning making sprinting more fatiguing, and jogging less so to try and represent that. However I think the problem is not the rate at which one reaches max fatigue when sprinting or jogging. Rather I think it is the max itself that is the problem. I think it should be impossible to reach such ridiculous levels of sway/fatige while jogging, but I am happy at the rate sway/fatigue increases. And if you scale anything, it messes with those rates... I made some graphs to better show how I would like things to function more like.

Do I make any kind of sense? What do you think?

"Sway system?"...this.....this is different

No, I think Bad Bensons on the right track. Sway is so dependant on fatigue, that it is worth discussing that relationship somewhere.

Edited November 14, 2014 by -Coulum-

[PlacidPaul 11]

I made some graphs to better show how I would like things to function more like.

Nice work, makes sense to me. I want to be penalized for sprinting with sway, but not in the same way for jogging.

Current system there is really no advantage to jog, unless you jog less than 175 (is that time?) Wait.....the whole point of jogging is long distance.

Also, there needs to be some reference to stance, Variables has some great points concerning it.

There still is the unknown factor of the upcoming Marksman DLC. I'm sure there will be some adjust made with that patch, hope getting this point across is not too late.

Edited November 14, 2014 by PlacidPaul

[Variable 322]

60% fatigued, not holding breath, and making no effort to control weapon sway. This video was made intentionally to show a high degree of weapon sway, after someone claimed that it was nauseating.

edit: Check out what big difference hold breath makes

Wait, do you want to tell me that this up and down jerking does not look ridiculous to you guys?

---------- Post added at 02:02 ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 ----------

I really fail to understand this logic of "I like the current sway because it makes it harder although it has nothing to do with reality".

[roshnak 41]

Wait, do you want to tell me that this up and down jerking does not look ridiculous to you guys?

I don't usually think about it because I've never been tired enough to experience it in normal gameplay (as in, unless I'm doing it on purpose for a video).

As for this part:

I really fail to understand this logic of "I like the current sway because it makes it harder although it has nothing to do with reality".

First of all - this is debatable. Are we talking about whether the pattern of sway has anything to do with reality? Are we talking about the amplitude? The speed? Are we talking about whether or not it is realistically difficult to aim the weapon when the game is telling you that you are at 70% of your maximum fatigue level and you are too tired to sprint and can't even jog at a normal pace (i.e. dead tired, this is the point that VBS won't let you progress past without pushing a special button)?

Second of all - Why is that logic any more or less valid than any other?

Edit: And for the record, when I have talked about being fine with the level of weapon sway, this has never been the kind of sway I was talking about, because, again, the only time I have ever experienced the amount of weapon sway displayed in those videos was when I was recording them.

Edit again: Also, it's probably worth noting that all of the sway after the initial hold breath period in the quoted video is significantly higher than what it would normally be, since it's being added to the "just ran out of breath" sway (this is probably not a good effect).

Edited November 15, 2014 by roshnak

[bad benson 1733]

...

yes yes. seems like i finally managed to articulate my thoughts ;)

i pretty much agree with your perception of the extremes being the problem too. this whole thing is actually hard to communicate about due to everything being connected (too much).

i made some tests yesterday and when you tweak the anim values you can actually balance it quite well. thankfully the value can also be negative so you can tweak recovery too. i n my test fatigue almost only occurs when sprinting and it also increases very fast and recovers very quickly depending on your pose. so you can actually take a knee to recover. recovery tweaking also has a nice effect on max sway in that it only occurs over a short period of time which takes away a lot of the ridiculousness.

at the moment i have not much time to test more but i will try to flesh it out more as a proof of concept. i also have to test that addon people keep linking to.

for now i chose to almost eliminate fatigue for jogging since that's the only way to avoid max sway from just jogging. but you still can be out of breath when jogging, if you sprinted beforehand. it's also interesting since it allows an AT soldier to only sprint for like 30-50 m (can't remember exactly) due to his load.

so it seemed to me that it balanced load more harshly, which i like. that basically makes a fully loaded soldier a full time jogger which comes close to speed tweaking which might not be as good since the slow motion effect can look kind of weird and can't be used by default instead of occuring only when being almost 100% fatigued. overall recovery time is a big factor to improve it at least for me personally.

i kind of hope that BI will take the time to try some similar stuff since it felt quite promising and much more believable.

[roshnak 41]

So does it basically change the system to the more traditional shooter model of just limiting sprint time?

And do you plan on releasing a version for others to test when you have it more fully fleshed out? I'm interested to see how it plays.

[-Coulum- 35]

Nice work, makes sense to me. I want to be penalized for sprinting with sway, but not in the same way for jogging.

Current system there is really no advantage to jog, unless you jog less than 175 (is that time?) Wait.....the whole point of jogging is long distance.

Well the graphs only rough approximations of what you see in game, using the x axis as time. Its more to show how I think the relationship between sprinting and jogging fatigue levels should be. I think that jogging should fatigue someone pretty much at the same rate it does now - but it should stop increasing after a certain threshold. Say 35%. Relating this to sway - this would mean that you wouldn't be able to get such massive sway after jogging a couple hundred metres, because you would reach that 35% cap. If you decide to sprint, or overload yourself, that cap raises, until it get to 100%.

Wait, do you want to tell me that this up and down jerking does not look ridiculous to you guys?

Well some of the sway looks ridiculous to me. But most of what I see in game actually looks quite good. Like I say, in the last post, when at 0-35% fatigue I think things look pretty dandy. At 35-50% I think that would only be applicable for intense sprints or action. And everything above 50% is, yeah, pretty ridiculous... though prone isn't actually that bad. So when exactly do you think the sway becomes overdone?

really fail to understand this logic of "I like the current sway because it makes it harder although it has nothing to do with reality".

Basically if something is unrealistically easy (aiming/shooting) than to make it realistically difficult you must add artificial challenge. This is to make the balance of the gameplay realistic, even if the individual parts are gamey (which in the end is unavoidable - a game is a game.)

I like the sway (when in the 0-50ish% fatigue range) because it makes engagements longer, more realistic and require more real world tactics, rather than "sit on the hill at 750 metres and plink away with my 556 and arco (arma 2)"

Especially in PVP, it really is more necessary to manoeuvre and close in on the enemy in order to win a firefight. That's more intense gameplay. That's more realistic gameplay. That's why I like the sway. Answer your question?

this whole thing is actually hard to communicate about due to everything being connected (too much).

Ah I wouldn't say too much. I like the complexity. It makes for many many different variables in battle that all combine to determine one's ability to engage. Meaning it takes more skill/planning/tactics/strategy to consistently be performing at your best.

for now i chose to almost eliminate fatigue for jogging since that's the only way to avoid max sway from just jogging. but you still can be out of breath when jogging, if you sprinted beforehand. it's also interesting since it allows an AT soldier to only sprint for like 30-50 m (can't remember exactly) due to his load.

so it seemed to me that it balanced load more harshly, which i like. that basically makes a fully loaded soldier a full time jogger which comes close to speed tweaking which might not be as good since the slow motion effect can look kind of weird and can't be used by default instead of occuring only when being almost 100% fatigued. overall recovery time is a big factor to improve it at least for me personally.

Interesting. Like I said above, I am not sure how much better you can get adjusting the rate of fatigue/sway build up. To me the problem is the limit/ceiling of that fatigue/sway. But I am interested to hear more of your testing. It does seem that jogging with light loadoat is a bit harsh in game right now, while being heavily loaded is not enough...

[mjolnir66 48]

Capping fatigue on jogging, is a terrible idea from a realism point of view. Like I said earlier, put on 30kgs of kit and go for a 5 mile jog, and immediately after try and shoot stuff. There is a reason why infantry in real life walk everywhere when they don't have transport. Compared to reality, the system we have now is understated by a good margin.

I'd also like to know why people seem to have this idea that it' nothing to do with reality. I wish I could hold a weapon as steady as my avatar in standing and kneeling. I also wish that when I held my breath my weapon went as still as it does in Arma.

[Defunkt 431]

I really fail to understand this logic of "I like the current sway because it makes it harder although it has nothing to do with reality".

But none of it has anything to do with reality, you're representing control and alignment of a longarm in 3d dimensions by waving a mouse with effectively zero weight or inertia around on a 2D plane. How does removing any attempt at modeling inertia or the positional variations caused by the act of breathing (especially when fatigued) make it more connected to reality?

Capping fatigue on jogging, is a terrible idea from a realism point of view. Like I said earlier, put on 30kgs of kit and go for a 5 mile jog, and immediately after try and shoot stuff. There is a reason why infantry in real life walk everywhere when they don't have transport. Compared to reality, the system we have now is understated by a good margin.

I'd also like to know why people seem to have this idea that it' nothing to do with reality. I wish I could hold a weapon as steady as my avatar in standing and kneeling. I also wish that when I held my breath my weapon went as still as it does in Arma.

And this.

[Variable 322]

But none of it has anything to do with reality, you're representing control and alignment of a longarm in 3d dimensions by waving a mouse with effectively zero weight or inertia around on a 2D plane. How does removing any attempt at modeling inertia or the positional variations caused by the act of breathing (especially when fatigued) make it more connected to reality?

I didn't say it should be completely removed, it should just be tweaked. I agree there should be some kind of mechanism to represent weapon instability which is affected by breathing and fatigue, but not to the point of looking completely ridiculous, because right now... just watch that video. It looks comical.

[machineabuse 11]

I didn't say it should be completely removed, it should just be tweaked. I agree there should be some kind of mechanism to represent weapon instability which is affected by breathing and fatigue, but not to the point of looking completely ridiculous, because right now... just watch that video. It looks comical.

This. The issue is not the presence of sway, it's the choice of simulation is like a weight on a rubber band which is not what the organs in the human body do.

You should only see the rise of fall in the sights from supported shooting positions, otherwise the behavior of "sway" would realistically be represented by the twitch reflex of your muscles as they attempt to keep alignment with the point in space the brain is telling it to. ArmA 2's "sway" was a more faithful and less abstract simulation of that specific behavior.

[bad benson 1733]

Capping fatigue on jogging, is a terrible idea from a realism point of view. Like I said earlier, put on 30kgs of kit and go for a 5 mile jog, and immediately after try and shoot stuff.

it's the only way to properly tweak sway since sadly sway and fatigue are tightly connected and can not be tweaked separately from what i can tell (not talking about stance specific default sway).

as for the realism. i would argue that what you see in the video and what we all have seen ingame wouldn't even happen after a 10 mile jog. it would never happen. the problem is that currently the system is like a standard stamina system but is used for long term fatigue too which it is not capable of without issues.

you should maybe put on a fraction of 30 kg ingame and then watch the show after jogging around to actually get what people are talking about here. the old "put on way too much stuff and see what happens n00b" :blahblah2: is kind of besides the point...

[Ristar 10]

1. infantry walk faster than the walking speed in game. the walking speed in game is strolling. and yes, with 30kg or more of load. as mentioned by other users, infantry do not jog everywhere they go. but they do not stroll everywhere like they're sightseeing as well.

2. has anyone in BI ever played America's Army before? that weapon sway is good. BI's weapon sway is the same as a drunkard's.

3. high ready weapon should be tiring and affect accuracy more, because the damn weapon isnt light, especially if u r carrying a SAW with a full box of ammo. however, this type of fatigue should be different from running, because your arms are not your legs. however, this is where the fitness of each person comes in. well conditioned people can high ready weapons longer than others.

4. BI needs to support bipods and weapon resting officially. by "support", i do not mean model the legs only. i mean, let us have something like TMR. officially. this includes weapon resting on stuff. and yes, it should include the use of the pack as something to rest the weapon on when "camping". and yes, it should allow users to rest the weapon on top of walls, at windows, etc. the TMR mod is quite buggy (for me), and BI needs to step up and support such things officially. in fact, it is NORMAL for people to rest watever crap they carry on something.

5. once again, the date set for ARMA 3 is in 2035, and soldiers, should be augmented by armoured exoskeletons by then. if so, there should be zero sway. i find it funny that the ARMA 3 story is supposed to be in 2035, but everything right down to the uniforms is so 70s/80s.

6. when kneeling and not moving, the people should rest the elbow on the knee to enhance accuracy. as mentioned in point 4, it is normal (instinctive even) for humans to look for something to lean on to, and not carry 100% of the weight 100% of the time.

7. slightly off topic, it is not right that the topic of hydration is left out. people should not be able to walk/jog/run without drinking water and without dying. in addition, there is also the topic about heat from the environment. in hostile environments (as in, very hot places), people get tired very quickly and some will drop when they fail to hydrate themselves.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Ristar

[Jona33 51]

1. infantry walk faster than the walking speed in game. the walking speed in game is strolling. and yes, with 30kg or more of load. as mentioned by other users, infantry do not jog everywhere they go. but they do not stroll everywhere like they're sightseeing as well.

That really needs to change, to a faster walking animation (greater stride length, not sped up animation) with both hands on the weapon. It doesn't look odd to walk around a base like that but swaggering your way through enemy territory is ridiculous.

[roshnak 41]

2. has anyone in BI ever played America's Army before? that weapon sway is good. BI's weapon sway is the same as a drunkard's.

America's Army had a cone of fire on top of weapon sway, so this isn't a good comparison.

5. once again, the date set for ARMA 3 is in 2035, and soldiers, should be augmented by armoured exoskeletons by then. if so, there should be zero sway. i find it funny that the ARMA 3 story is supposed to be in 2035, but everything right down to the uniforms is so 70s/80s.

What? Since 2035 hasn't happened yet, I don't think you can say what equipment will be available by then, or how said speculative technology will affect weapon handling.

7. slightly off topic, it is not right that the topic of hydration is left out. people should not be able to walk/jog/run without drinking water and without dying. in addition, there is also the topic about heat from the environment. in hostile environments (as in, very hot places), people get tired very quickly and some will drop when they fail to hydrate themselves.

This sounds not fun at all.

[Variable 322]

7. slightly off topic, it is not right that the topic of hydration is left out. people should not be able to walk/jog/run without drinking water and without dying. in addition, there is also the topic about heat from the environment. in hostile environments (as in, very hot places), people get tired very quickly and some will drop when they fail to hydrate themselves.

Oh, but isn't your 2035 exoskeleton suite recycle your sweat into water and insert it back into your body?

[das attorney 858]

Oh, but isn't your 2035 exoskeleton suite recycle your sweat into water and insert it back into your body?

Mmm the future looks tasty :p

[Ristar 10]

America's Army had a cone of fire on top of weapon sway, so this isn't a good comparison.

What? Since 2035 hasn't happened yet, I don't think you can say what equipment will be available by then, or how said speculative technology will affect weapon handling.

This sounds not fun at all.

if u have played AA, u will know that the weapon sways. wat i meant is exactly that. how the weapon sways, not the "cone of fire" or anything like that. read my comment properly.

2035 has not happened yet? there're pixelised uniforms, where are they in ARMA 3 for the US forces? MX rifle, "Katiba" rifles and several other crap are not invented yet, why are they in ARMA 3?

hydration may not sound fun at all, but it is a very important part of real life combat operations.

it also forces players to plan the logistics, how much water they must carry on themselves, etc in long campaigns, how hard they want to push the men, or how hard can each person push themselves until they drop dead from the lack of logistical support. whether they should take over rivers, etc, and how far should they be from a water point, be it a logistical support water point where trucks with jerry cans can supply water, or rivers. to deny enemy the means to replenish their tired forces, do u poison the whole river?

anyway, u cant walk for 10km and after u prone on the ground for 5 minutes, u r all set for contact with an enemy. so, u take a vehicle. but wat kinda vehicle, and how far to drop off to make sure that they're still fresh (not just fatigue) enough to fight?

anyway, i thought ARMA 3 ppl want things to be "authentic"?

and how about combat rations? that would limit your play time before each resup, and affect the amount of ammo and such u can carry in your bag. it means that cutting off an enemy supply would be fun stuff, wouldnt it?

unless, of course, u prefer to do those short games where u kill off another team each round in a short amount of time. wat im thinking about is an Altis (or whichever map) sandbox type of thing.

this represents another dimension to the game that's unseen in many other games.

---------- Post added at 03:09 ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 ----------

Oh, but isn't your 2035 exoskeleton suite recycle your sweat into water and insert it back into your body?

hur hur hur. tell me, which infantry unit in ARMA 3 is wearing any exoskeleton now?

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ristar

[roshnak 41]

if u have played AA, u will know that the weapon sways. wat i meant is exactly that. how the weapon sways, not the "cone of fire" or anything like that. read my comment properly.

I have played America's Army, and I know that there is weapon sway. In addition, and operating independently from weapon sway, there is also a cone of fire, which is influenced by stance, movement speed, injury, suppression, and proximity to a team leader. An expanding cone of fire based on these factors was a substantial factor in accuracy. Because of this, your suggestion to simply look to America's Army for an ideal level of weapon sway is not a good one, since weapon sway was not the sole determinant of accuracy in America's Army, and it is in Arma 3.

[the_demongod 31]

if u have played AA, u will know that the weapon sways. wat i meant is exactly that. how the weapon sways, not the "cone of fire" or anything like that. read my comment properly.

2035 has not happened yet? there're pixelised uniforms, where are they in ARMA 3 for the US forces? MX rifle, "Katiba" rifles and several other crap are not invented yet, why are they in ARMA 3?

hydration may not sound fun at all, but it is a very important part of real life combat operations.

it also forces players to plan the logistics, how much water they must carry on themselves, etc in long campaigns, how hard they want to push the men, or how hard can each person push themselves until they drop dead from the lack of logistical support. whether they should take over rivers, etc, and how far should they be from a water point, be it a logistical support water point where trucks with jerry cans can supply water, or rivers. to deny enemy the means to replenish their tired forces, do u poison the whole river?

anyway, u cant walk for 10km and after u prone on the ground for 5 minutes, u r all set for contact with an enemy. so, u take a vehicle. but wat kinda vehicle, and how far to drop off to make sure that they're still fresh (not just fatigue) enough to fight?

anyway, i thought ARMA 3 ppl want things to be "authentic"?

and how about combat rations? that would limit your play time before each resup, and affect the amount of ammo and such u can carry in your bag. it means that cutting off an enemy supply would be fun stuff, wouldnt it?

unless, of course, u prefer to do those short games where u kill off another team each round in a short amount of time. wat im thinking about is an Altis (or whichever map) sandbox type of thing.

this represents another dimension to the game that's unseen in many other games.

---------- Post added at 03:09 ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 ----------

hur hur hur. tell me, which infantry unit in ARMA 3 is wearing any exoskeleton now?

I think you need to slow down and read this thread before you go around saying Arma 3 isn't authentic.

[Ristar 10]

I have played America's Army, and I know that there is weapon sway. In addition, and operating independently from weapon sway, there is also a cone of fire, which is influenced by stance, movement speed, injury, suppression, and proximity to a team leader. An expanding cone of fire based on these factors was a substantial factor in accuracy. Because of this, your suggestion to simply look to America's Army for an ideal level of weapon sway is not a good one, since weapon sway was not the sole determinant of accuracy in America's Army, and it is in Arma 3.

read. carefully.

2. has anyone in BI ever played America's Army before? that weapon sway is good. BI's weapon sway is the same as a drunkard's.

i said, the weapon sway is good. do u need further clarification?

but since u keep mentioning about the "cone of fire", i will address this. if u have fired a rifle before, u would know that BI's implementation of not using at least a small cone of fire, is not highly realistic. in fact, it is highly unrealistic. just like the lack of weapon supports in this game.

in real life, for your rounds to land on target, u will first need to "neutralise" the zeroing of the previous user and then zero your weapon with a canadian bull target. not just up/down, but also left/right, according to each person's preferences when they're using iron sights. in addition, there are fundamentals of marksmanship that must not be skimped on in order to land the shot. they are: pressure of the rifle butt on your shoulder, weapon cant, breath control (which is exaggerated by BI), and trigger squeeze. a tired person may not land his round on target at longer distances (100m to 300m) at any stance even when the sight picture is on target because of these factors. when it comes to pistols, it also requires the person to somewhat anticipate the recoil when firing the weapon because of the lack of support from the shoulder.

also, just because your sight is at the same point, does not mean that there will only be one hole in your target because all your rounds went through the same hole. in fact, if u see one hole, it means that u hit the target only once.

the "cone of fire" in real life is affected by marksmanship fundamentals, fatigue, stance, supported/non-supported, movement speed, injury, and suppression. not by a higher ranking person (which is unrealistic in AA, but i get that they're trying to make ppl stick as a team).

for longer ranges (beyond 300m). advanced marksmanship comes into play. the factors include wind, humidity, temperature, and aiming off when the target moves. granted, i do not have any experience shooting at targets that far so BI should get the opinions of real snipers for that. however, sniper skills are not required now to be a fantastic shot because there is a computer system that would make anyone an instant sniper. it is disappointing that BI left this system out of their 2035 game.

digressing...

not having weapon jams (like in AA) that require Immediate Action is not realistic. weapons that are not maintained well and faulty magazines can cause the weapon to jam. the types of jams related to magazine issues are: no feeding, and double feeding. lastly, not having a chambered round is also not realistic. there are 2 types of reloads. one with a round chambered, where u just switch the magazine, and one without a round chambered when u have to change the magazine and ease the weapon's spring if it is a closed bolt weapon.

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I think you need to slow down and read this thread before you go around saying Arma 3 isn't authentic.

so, add hydration and requirement for food when operating for long hours. how can such an important element when it comes to logistics be left out and fanboys like u claim that it is authentic? in addition, the way the infantry weapons behave is highly unrealistic. read my comment above to understand why.

i would also say that the flight element in this game is highly unrealistic, it is arcade-like, only much less enjoyable. everything in the cockpit is functionally useless and is there because BI needs to make a cockpit and fill up the space. in addition, the way the squad works and how poorly the AI behaves is highly inauthentic. u can always point to the vehicles and all, but these facts remain.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ristar