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zapat

Black Rain Project [SP experience]

What do you think of the new GetTactical View?  

69 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think of the new GetTactical View?

    • Great! This is what ARMA SP gaming needs!
      47
    • Good, but only for rare, special occasions.
      10
    • Good, but I won't use it.
      4
    • I don't see how could it be useful.
      1
    • The vid didn't make me want to try it. So I dunno.
      3


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hmAzxTW.jpg










I decided to take this mission back into WIP state.


Re-release ETA is when all the bugs are fixed, and most of my ideas are implemented well.



A relatively stable latest version is
able in the meantime, featuring:


>GetTactical tutorial


>Two working skirmish missions


>A probably bug infested epic campaign, with lots of - highly custom - features
-included and streamlined


-a
non-handholding
mission in a procedurally populated open world,


-side-missions,


-diverse encounters,


-custom
fast travel | rest system
with simulated (non-random) group movements,


-more than 25 totally different recruitable friendly units, all with
special feats
,


-survival elements
, thunderstorms,


-custom
revive | fatigue | exhaustion system


-custom - team level -
gear management











Credits:

>Music:
Kevin MacLeod

>Voice talent:
Schizophrenic

>Additional code:
zooloo75 -ragdoll
| JohnnyBoy - exploding barrels
| Rübe - polygon functions

Edited by zapat

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And I would have a question for those people who tried it (but gave no feedback, duh!! I saw your numbers!! :D):

Would you like selectable game modes?

I thought to include a

-Campaign (with all the features on: to slowly work your way up from zero to a fully equipped team)

-Quick skirmish (quick mission with a fully equipped Tactical Team, without the story, survival and looting elements)

-Quick skirmish hard (same mission but with less units all with only a weapon and a medikit)

The mission included is the intro misison of the intended campaign. If you reached the end you probably know where you will start the full campaign.

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Those 3 gamemodes are a good way to let the player more confortable with your mission, but how about adding 2 extra options: long skirmish - not so long as campaign, but a little longer than quick (duhhhh) and with some equipment unlockings, with or without survival elements?

Just for the sake of diversity =)

cheers!

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Congrats on the release :)

Tired from watching the World Cup Final but will be giving this a go!

Germany won ;D

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This "GetTactical View" looks like what would be needed to make SP mission were you command a team fun again.

Do you plan to release it as a standalone script or addon ?

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DA: :)

Wiggum: Thanks, this was the reason I went for it! :)

Yes, I do. Sure. Although I don't know much about addon making, so I need to dig into it.

But if folks like it and the race is over I am more than happy to concentrate on whatever you guys ask for.

Until that I am afraid I am scheduled. :) (its only two months )

I try to be as modular as possible, so every aspect of the mission could be addonized.

Right now they are a bit much integrated into each other, because there are some things need to be handled so that one can use them outside of my framework, which requires time. But nothing else.

Other option is releasing it as a script (well more of a class, right now it is 10 files with lots-o-scripts inside), because it now has some limitations. (eg. Max 6 units are handled now, but it can go up to whatever we'd like \ it needs its keypoller, which currently interferes with savegames \etc) so mission maker should handle these.

Edited by zapat

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Wow I like what I see so far.

Like Wiggum said "This "GetTactical View" looks like what would be needed to make SP mission were you command a team fun again.

Do you plan to release it as a standalone script or addon ?

This could become one of those addons that everyone must have as standard for SP play. In other words a game changing enhancement Like ACE was for ARMA 2. Playing urban warfare missions with AI team mates is just too frustrating, this could change that and make it fun in SP.

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Holy crap zapat! This is wonderful mate! I remember a mod (that was never released) in Arma2 that a team leader was able to make whole groups like up against a wall for instance. Will try and dig it up and link it here.

What you have done already is just superb ... keep on coding mate!

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Well thanks for the kind words. (I almost forgot youo from the credits)

The only problem I have that I got used to it in the past months, so I cannot really play anything else without it. I feel disoriented and controlless over my team. :)

So I am definetely going to make an addon too. Until then you'll get something more serious to have some fun with (just give me a couple of days). Until the arrival of THE FUN himself.

And please POLL (and vote) people: you really need mugs and mousepads for this? :)

Edited by zapat

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How do you think this could play out in coop? As an addon with AI I think this would be very powerful.

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Yes, I guess yes, although I barely ever play Coop. (I played like three times with friends)

But it is nothing more than a 3D interface for placing AI movePoses (directions, speeds, unitPoses) easily. So I don't see why it wouldn't help managing AI in COop too.

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So, that's the Plan B? :) Sounds fabulous and intriguing (that rain...), I'll try it ASAP. Saw the video so far, and indeed, such kind of team management should be BI's vanilla IMO. Very promising.

Sometimes the "No entry config . " message comes up at the beginning. I am hunting it, causes no errors gameplaywise.

Perhaps same, or similar as an issue, I found in my mission? Due to that I was getting same error message.

The sound of the fireplace may stay on.

Not the mission's issue, I think. Same happens in the Pilgrimage mission sometimes. I wonder, if it is due to Blastcore, I'm using, or in vanilla it happens too.

EDIT: tried - tutorial and a minute of the mission. I've strong feeling, this will be one of my favourite scenarios. :) This thing defnitelly looks like something, that costed > 1000 workhours already, and that's impressive. All those GUI gadgets... I can recognize signs of enormous work inserted even after so short try. Also liked clever explanation of the lack of the furniture. Funny. :)

Tactical view seems so far very well designed. No redundant clicking, intuitive enough etc. One thing: on screen text seems to big, and only part of it is visible inside the black lines/field. Also, as you probably know, handling the camera may need some tuning. Or skill. Or both. Eg. rotating is a bit troublemaking - sometimes too rapid.

Edited by Rydygier

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Ryd: yes Sir, that is plan B. I mean the name. :) This mission has its own life, I just write it out. :D

Thanks for the tip: I knew it's a "" somewhere but your suggestion may narrow it down. I appreciate it!

And I appreciate your feedback, (if someone you mmust know that) it means a lot!

What on-screen text are you referring to? The subtitles? Please advise on this: this is one of the things I was afraid of because of all the different monitor setups.

About the camera: there has been LOTS of cam movement approaches I tried, but I ended up with this. Although I have no feeling about it at all I am soo used to it now.

If you, or anyone have suggestions for better camera control, I'd really appreciate it!!!

Right now: cam movement speed is dependant on altitude. That is if you go higher, you'll move faster. IMHO This correlates with why people use different viewing altitudes.

I decided on the continous camera rotation instead of the move-the-camera-only-while-mouse-is-moving, because I ended up too many times with my cursos wandering off the screen. I needed just way too much redundant mouse movement. The continous rotation is strange at first, but very quick and powerful if you can use it. You need to start slow, but you can reach great continous speed with a good mouse movement. Moving and rotating the cam at the same time is where this approach shines, I can make shots which weren't possible with non-continous rotation.

The buttons follow RTS standards (left to select, middle to move, right to command). I tried Zeus when it came out, I just don't get their click approach. (To tell the truth there are many other things I don't really get with Arma: but I still love it, because ALL could be worked around.)

The result is that mine may seem un-familiar to most at first as well. I just can't tell now: I've been using this setup for about a year now.

Here is a vid for it. Just watch my mouse movements on the pointer!

Edited by zapat

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Well, some things, that may be perfectly fine, just I'm unused:

- the rule, so speed of rotating increases, if cursor is close to the screen edge. Its good, but maybe some limitation here?;

- "wheel up" elevates camera (used to opposite from other games etc, pure subjective, I guess);

- to X-Y movement of the camera are used WSAD buttons only (?). I'm always using solely cursor arrows for such things. WSAD doesn't exist for me. Alternative: moving by bringing the mouse cursor at the screen edges;

- rotating becomes wild at extreme vertical angle. Wise idea may be to restrict possible angles by excluding extremes.

Right now: cam movement speed is dependant on altitude. That is if you go higher, you'll move faster.

Yes, agree. OK would be even, if "visible speed" of map scrolling stays same - effect is reached then, the higher you are, the faster absolute movement is. Importat, you avoided problem, WOO had, where aiming point on the ground had same speed regardless of alititude of the camera, which made movement from high relatively slooooow.

If you want to bother for more refference about "my ways", you can try under Arma 2 based on Mondkalb's WOO Ragnarok mission made for Iron Front mod. That was the only case, I had direct contant with scripting of such things. Not a perfection, of course. It uses also nice, soft limiter, so camera can't be moved too far from allied units (rubber/molasses way not concrete wall, which is clunky for more than one allied unit), if such thing is needed here. But there thing is solved a bit differently - camera isn't rotating around own vertical axis, but is rotating around the point, it is aiming at. That again is subjective, who preffer what.

As this is major feature here, I suggest to consider fair rule "in doubt - make it optional". Good idea may be to make camera handling customizable as for rules and sensitivity. More work, of course...

Anyway, I trust, this is well thought, if used so long, so, exactly, main taskis from user's side - get used to it. :)

What on-screen text are you referring to? The subtitles? Please advise on this: this is one of the things I was afraid of because of all the different monitor setups.

Exactly. One of the main reasons, why I'm so reluctant each time it comes to script any GUI. Tedious, boring and hard to test reliably. Illustration:

aoruqb.jpg

Well, if all fail, always may be used simple way, I'm using personally in such cases, simple titleText/cutText.

Smaller issue is initial position of the notebook:

2ilbsly.jpg

Edited by Rydygier

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- the rule, so speed of rotating increases, if cursor is close to the screen edge. Its good, but maybe some limitation here?;

- "wheel up" elevates camera (used to opposite from other games etc, pure subjective, I guess);

- to X-Y movement of the camera are used WSAD buttons only (?). I'm always using solely cursor arrows for such things. WSAD doesn't exist for me. Alternative: moving by bringing the mouse cursor at the screen edges;

- rotating becomes wild at extreme vertical angle. Wise idea may be to restrict possible angles by excluding extremes.

- okay, limitations seem doable.

- yes, for me: up is up, down is down. :) I changed it, since the map follows your logic too.

- Movement check your moveForward, moveBackward, turnLeft and turnRight keys. Its not wsad, unless you move by wsad anyway.

- I know about it, its on the list.

I tried WOO, it had horrible cam handling imho. I tried ZEUS too, it is better, but I don't like it. Nor the Splendid camera. :)

So I ended up with what I like. I need more feedback on this, I consider yours of course!

Options are great, I just neeed to include them. Providing that making a UI menu takes around 3 days: yes its a pain in the ass to do such. I am short of time, but sooner or later I will include something like it. What options dou you think would be good?

The subs are strange. What UI settings do you use?

-resolution:

-aspect ratio (if differs):

-interface size:

And the note starts there intentionally. You can move it up while reading. It seemed a bit more immersive to me. :) It can start in the middle of course. :)

Thanks Ryd

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I tried WOO, it had horrible cam handling imho.

Indeed, and the used method itself was poor. Perhaps at the timne there wasn't alternative. Thus for Ragnarok I overhauled this completelly. In fact there wasn't much things in WOO, I didn't touched making Ragnarok. :)

Didn't tried Zeus.

So I ended up with what I like.

And that's for sure is right thing. :)

What options dou you think would be good?

- few sensitivity levels (speed of movement, scrolling, rotation);

- wheel up/down switch for elevate/lower the camera;

- an option, or always enabled alternative to scroll the screen by bringing the cursor at the screen edge (so possible is full control with mouse alone);

- switch for rotating mode: around camera axis (like is now)/around point of the camera's aim on the ground (this one may be tricky, means too time consuming though, I was using for that invisible "anchor" - an hidden object always on the ground. Camera was attached to it and focused on it, and script was moving/rotating that anchor, not the camera directly, while vertical movement was done only via zoom in/zoom out - camera attached closer or farther from the anchor - obviously in that system camera was on that or another angle, but always directed downwards)...

Maybe something more, I forgot.

The subs are strange. What UI settings do you use?

For monitor: 23,6", 1920x1080 (16:9) I'm using:

-resolution: 1920x1080 (16:9)

-aspect ratio: ditto - 16:9 Wide

-interface size: small

Edited by Rydygier

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Now thats even stranger. I use 16:9 too (resolution itself shouldn't have impact, since ARMA uses percentage) but normal size. Although I test everything with the two extremes: very small and very large.

I look into it.

As for the cam controls: most of them (speed, cont/non-cont, invert Y, invert wheel) can be inserted quite easily. I have a new Welcome screen, these can be fitted. And are not hard to insert into code either (I wrote the scripts with possible later settings in mind)

What about your movement keys? Are the arrows in your unit movement controls?

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Well, I have WSAD left as primary movement keys, but cursor keys are set as secondary and that one set I'm using. So in my case seems, it's enough to remove WSAD primary set and leave cursors only.

EDIT: Hmm. I did that, and now I can't scroll the screen with WSAD, what was expected, but also can't do this with arrow keys, which is strange...

Edited by Rydygier

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Here is the code:

_key = _this select 1; //("KeyDown" eventhandler)
if (_key in (actionKeys "MoveForward")) then {BR_TACV_dirYKeyDown = 0; BR_TACV_dirYKeyPressed = _key;};

Great! The displayEventhandler doesn't handle arrow keys. The event doesn't fire for key dik 200.

Even better: if I add it to my main ctrl instead of display, it handles the keyDown for arrows, but not the keyUp. Now dig this.

Edited by zapat

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Nice concept Zapat, played it in vanilla, cus it doesn´t work with other mods running along - or is your code just "allergic" to MCC or NSS admin tools? I really wanted to play your mission with TPW mods (of course, civs/air/radio off), jump, AGM and Tao´s Map... or does your script really demands a vanilla setup to work flawlessly?

cheers!

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And I would have a question for those people who tried it (but gave no feedback, duh!! I saw your numbers!! :D):

Would you like selectable game modes?

I thought to include a

-Campaign (with all the features on: to slowly work your way up from zero to a fully equipped team)

-Quick skirmish (quick mission with a fully equipped Tactical Team, without the story, survival and looting elements)

-Quick skirmish hard (same mission but with less units all with only a weapon and a medikit)

The mission included is the intro misison of the intended campaign. If you reached the end you probably know where you will start the full campaign.

I like a mix of the Campaign and the Quick Skirmish (Hard)... A sort of "Wastelands like"... survival roleplay where story is made by the pcs as they hunt and loot, maybe a base building to add to the feel of making it your own.

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:39 ----------

Oh and I did try the tutorial, but got lost/stuck with some of the commands... I am not sure about some of the Tac moves and what not. (Other words got tired not being able to get past it and gave up. LOL)

But this is not to say I am saying its bad... just the tutorial might need a bit of flushing out details... for us slow learners (LOL)

I could not seem to get the guy to move to the red arrow. (Yup right there in the start of it.) (Slow I told ya)

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Hi,

I popped in to say thank you!

This seems to be one of the greatest for arma so far!!

Please I second to get this out as an addon! I would love to roam the island with my guys finally move where I want them to be (well more or less) :D

Thanks and keep it up! (Addon pls pls pls)

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Just by watching your GetTactical demo, I am very impressed by your work! This has been needed for quite some time and should help defeat the archaic command mode.

Keep up the good work!

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;2733229']Nice concept Zapat' date=' played it in vanilla, cus it doesn´t work with other mods running along - or is your code just "allergic" to MCC or NSS admin tools? I really wanted to play your mission with TPW mods (of course, civs/air/radio off), jump, AGM and Tao´s Map... or does your script really demands a vanilla setup to work flawlessly?

[/quote']

The project is in an early released stage, which means it runs on vanilla, but the deep test with addons and such are still needed. If you want to help me with this, I appreciate it!

What do you mean on "it doesn't work"?

-doesn't start at all

-stops with error messages

-can't open the GetTactical View

-you can open it but can't control units

So where does it stop?

I like a mix of the Campaign and the Quick Skirmish (Hard)... A sort of "Wastelands like"... survival roleplay where story is made by the pcs as they hunt and loot, maybe a base building to add to the feel of making it your own.

Yes, thats the concept of Campaign mode exactly.

Oh and I did try the tutorial, but got lost/stuck with some of the commands... I am not sure about some of the Tac moves and what not. (Other words got tired not being able to get past it and gave up. LOL)

But this is not to say I am saying its bad... just the tutorial might need a bit of flushing out details... for us slow learners (LOL)

I could not seem to get the guy to move to the red arrow. (Yup right there in the start of it.) (Slow I told ya)

Well, thans for this feedback too! Using the tool was already a second nature for me, when I created the tutorial, so I may be off with the difficulty/clearness of the explanations.

The COMMAND CLICK works this way:

1. RIGHT-CLICK to the intended move position. (the start of the red arrow.) !!KEEP THE BUTTON PRESSED!!

2. While keeping it pressed, DRAG your mouse.

- you will see the WATCH DIRECTION by the DIRECTION of your BLACK LINE being dragged. Make sure the dragged line points the same direction the arrow does.

- you can set MOVEMENT SPEED by the LENGTH of the line (note the > | >> | >>> markers) Drag the line until it shows >> to make the unit run.

-you can set POSE by your WHEEL. ˇis down, - is middle, ^is standing. For the tutorial one turn down is needed for - pose.

I do hope you can get over it and you dont get frustrated. If you want to contribute a little, you can help me nail the tutorial.

What is the most confusing part/sentence?

All the others: thanks for the nice words, I appreciate it. A lot of works lies in the project indeed, but I enjoyed 95% of it a lot! And I won't speak about the rest 5%. :)

And I forgot to mention that V0.2 is out since yesterday if somebody missed that.

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