Episode 3, "Game Over" mission

[Variable 322]

...even got to the heliport and got us away in a Wildcat. But had no idea what to do after that and died.

Just fly away from the island. After some distance the mission will end.

[machineabuse 11]

People seem to confuse difficulty with immersion.

Were the mission design like Pilgrimage where the events and the results had a greater amount of variability then yes I'd agree that replaying this mission has the potential to be more fun. But the shift in design from every other mission in the game to this makes it a mismatch and taking away saves comes off as arbitrary regardless of the design intent.

1. There isn't a great enough variation in the narrative events to make replays of this mission worth it

2. The mission area is too big to encourage players to take risks and exercise autonomy

3. There is a disproportionate amount of risk to very little reward

4. Everything that this mission makes you do is better expressed in other missions, adding nothing but busy work to finishing a mission that the rest of the campaign doesn't prepare the player for

When I finished played and finished this mission the first time I beelined it to the nearest heliport, boarded a chopper and flew away. Every time since I have tried to play it to see what else I could experience has been an exercise in frustration.

I have no doubt mission can be played by rote. After enough trial and error you can develop a method in which to beat the mission, the process of which in my opinion cannot be called fun or engaging or even challenging. It's just a consumption of time or a waste when the narrative payoff is so insubstantial.

I've only just discovered Pomigit's mod, which has finally given me impetus to explore this mission more. Personally, I think the better alternative is a native last mission that actually feels worth playing.

[OMAC 254]

I have no doubt mission can be played by rote. After enough trial and error you can develop a method in which to beat the mission, the process of which in my opinion cannot be called fun or engaging or even challenging. It's just a consumption of time or a waste when the narrative payoff is so insubstantial.

Well, it certainly is challenging. There is no question about that. But I agree that, after completion, it is a letdown and doesn't seem worth the effort and time. There definitely should have been a MUCH more substantial narrative reward. For me, getting to the heliport east of swamp only to find no chopper, and then having to leave 4 men behind as I took off in boat, were both real downers.

[machineabuse 11]

I'm not sure if I'd call something as mundane as memorizing enemy numbers and locations and ticking them off a checklist as I kite them to death a challenge. Because of the lack of saves I defaulted to a very conservative approach. I look forward to playing the mission through with more gusto. ;)

[OMAC 254]

I hammered away at the thing until I completed all the optional tasks and left island. It does become a matter of finding out exactly which way to go to avoid most enemy, and then executing the plan with skill. It still was harrowing at the end, as there was a squad of enemy pursuing us as we left swamp and approached heliport. You must run like hell, and keep as much distance as possible between you and them. Then there's another squad with marksman to the south, which you can't see, but can nail you from range. The horror of being killed and thus having to do everything over again is enough to create some serious immersion. But it's immersion of a rather bad kind. But you'll never forget it, that's for sure.

[Variable 322]

But you'll never forget it, that's for sure.

That, for me, is what made it worth it.

[OMAC 254]

The desperation and pressure of this mission reminds me of the flagship mission of the IFL44 D-Day DLC where you have to assault the bunker on Omaha Beach or wherever. That was the hardest mission of all time, thanks to respawn of German soldiers, made by gool ol' Wass of AWAR. Another one you'll never forget. But that one had save game capability.

[major_barnes1987 33]

That, for me, is what made it worth it.

Same here mate.The lack of saving option (although you can tick it on in the options) made this mission terrifying and tense!Danger everywhere....It reminded me of something like a final fight.Only it's not a fight it's survival.If you choose to continue the paradise found mission to get the "good ending" it's much easier than this.This....the game over mission is the real final fight.And the ending,was it really the bad ending?

If you choose the good ending,is it really the good ending?I can't go into any more spoilers so just watch both endings again closely!

[OMAC 254]

They should have added something exciting like having to blow the Tremor device with a tactical nuke before exiting the island. ;) After which you have to penetrate the mountain lair of a sexy female CSAT agent, grab the plans, and escape (oh wait - no women in game, sorry :rolleyes:).

In any case, if you have rescued either the NATO or FIA squad, or both, they should ensure that enough choppers or boats are available at all escape points to get you and the men you've just rescued the hell out of there. For example, if you have rescued them (optional task(s) complete), then a new task could have been generated which directs player to specific escape point(s) that would have enough vehicles. I think a lot more could have been done with this mission that would have left the player awed and satisfied rather than frustrated and/or let down. I see the elimination of saves as a gimmick.

The "good" ending of Status Quo is largely ruined by a nasty bug which prevents most dialog from being heard. http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22058

I'm playing the Arma 1 campaigns converted to A2CO in Arma Rearmed 2. These campaigns really feel like WAR, and are much, much more challenging than anything in East Wind except for Bingo Fuel and Game Over. Survive and Adapt are good, but the campaign doesn't live up to the "THIS IS WAR" A3 motto.

Edited May 25, 2015 by OMAC

[neofit 65]

So I see this is not fixed yet. I haven't felt anything challenging at all, just boring repetition for people who don't know better, learning to game the game only uses so much brain power. Purposeful lack of saves is always a weak attempt by some talentless designer to add "challenge" the only way they know how. Will I want to try more than once or twice? Of course not, I have better things to do. Did I enjoy the lack of a save option? No, just uttered a big FU to the id*ot who came up with that.

[shipbreaker 13]

This is my absolutely the most favourite mission. It was a pain in the ass at the beginning, but now when I know some cool locations, tips and tricks, I enjoy it very much. I don't play this mission to leave Altis. I play it till I die- what happens eventually.

My play:

-Start, get the van, go to the domes.

-Kill 4 guys in the base (excluding dome), take rocket launcher and long range rifle (swap optics with RCO, so it supports nightvision, that is necessary until morning comes).

-Take transport truck or stay with the same van as before, it's sufficient for now.

-Go to rescue guys at construction site

-From this point I head west, though fields and yards to reach orange highway, use highway in north direction to approach airfield

-Go to the little base on the hill, north of airfield, help nato remains in defending base, keep my guys hidden for now.

-If blackhawk is there, take it, load my guys. If not, take hummingbird to reach airfield- another blackhawk should be there- take it and grab my guys back from base on the hill (please note that this blackhawk is damaged, use repeair vehicle nearby, just stay sharp, because CSAT soldiers may be wandering on the runway).

-Fly to the swamps to resque FIA guys- from now on you have 7 or 8 soldiers (forgot if your player is included in soldier numbering or not, I guess it is, so 7 guys). Apporach from the west, as other places around FIA guys are mined. You need to land, get out, connect with FIA, go back, order them to get in. Do not stay too long- enemies will spawn.

Now you can escape Altis, or you can stay and have some fun, retaking Altis.

-Go to the green air base, that FIA guy was talking about. Retake air base using vehicle abandoned on the road, nort-west from air base, near the swamp. Take mortar parts inside it, take the vehicle, cleaning green heli LZ with use of mounted gun and FLIR is just a formality

-Take the base, take Gm6 lynx, give to people as much anti-tank weaponary as possible, take Titan with AA missiles, because those flying buggers will spawn here and there. Just remember about second Lynx and other stuff from Kuma tank.

From now on you can take Kuma tank and start assemblying your heavy vehicle column. Alternatively you can get your ass back to blackhawk, reach some destination near red positions (fly low, beware of Madrids, HMG's and other AA guns), unload all, get close in stealth, start bombing those muggots with mortar, and use lynx to finish the job.

I prefer second aproach, because letting AI drive in ARMA is a sadomasochistic deathwish.

All without saving. You need to be careful and plan well.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Shipbreaker

[Variable 322]

Thanks Shipbreaker, I should play this mission again... I really enjoyed it although I took a pretty straightforward approach. I grabbed a tempest transport from the dome (I think) and rescued the NATO guys, then I went directly to the FIA guys in the swamp, ignoring the mines, the tempest can take the damage and keep going. Then I just went to the nearest base on the coast and took the chopper and escaped.

[OMAC 254]

^ ^ I took the same approach, and had my engineer walk in front of the truck to watch for mines, but after hitting 2-3 mines, the Tempest was disabled.

[Variable 322]

^ ^ I took the same approach, and had my engineer walk in front of the truck to watch for mines, but after hitting 2-3 mines, the Tempest was disabled.

I have a feeling that speed is the key there. Move fast and the tempest will take less damage (not that it's logical). I definitely detonated more than 3 mines on my attempt but then again, it was a while back so the armor or damage values were changed.

[OMAC 254]

Have armor/damage values for vehicles changed? Wouldn't be surprised. Given the AI skill changes, and suppression, introduced recently (1.42?), it is quite possible that the balance of many campaign missions has changed. I do know that Infantry showcase went from being incredibly brutal and unforgiving* to a complete snap. With 1.42 RC (?), I tested it and completed it on Veteran with 0 reverts, whereas it typically took ~8-20 before. I don't think the AI changes would affect Game Over much (given the route you and I took), with the possible exception of the enemy specops in the swamp being easier to overcome/avoid.

And Shipbreaker's post makes me consider playing Game Over again, also! :) Hopefully I'll find an evac chopper this time around!

* Much like Trial By Fire A2 scenario. :eek: :638:

Edited June 7, 2015 by OMAC

[shipbreaker 13]

I updated my post, there were several mistakes in my description.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Shipbreaker

[Pomi Git 256]

You shouldn't have to save a copy of your save file. Unless BI have changed something. The instructions on armaholic are incorrect. You hit replay to load your save. That's my fault because I stated revert instead of replay when I first released the mod.

The correct instructions are on steam workshop.

Its been a while since I played the campaign but I had no problem dying and and then loading last save via replay

[shipbreaker 13]

Right now I don't remember if I ever used "replay" button- my intenton was to at least try to load my saves, so clicking "replay" didn't seem to be logical choice, because "replay" in arma always worked as "restart", flushing all saves. I'll check it today, when I'm back home. It it works, then you can ignore my post :P

EDIT: Ok it works, as you said :)

Edited June 8, 2015 by Shipbreaker

[Evil.Iguana 2]

Restricting saves was a terrible decision.  Pomi's mod that allows saves is a godsend.

[Roach_ 52]

Does anybody know how did they do it so that when you die, the mission actually gives you that ending, instead of the death camera? Since triggering an endMission when the player dies still gives you the death camera.

[Undeceived 392]

Thanks Shipbreaker, I should play this mission again... I really enjoyed it although I took a pretty straightforward approach. I grabbed a tempest transport from the dome (I think) and rescued the NATO guys, then I went directly to the FIA guys in the swamp, ignoring the mines, the tempest can take the damage and keep going. Then I just went to the nearest base on the coast and took the chopper and escaped.

It was similar for me, but I even managed to crash the chopper while taking off. :D

And then... The next time there was NO chopper in that base (which prolonged the mission by 2 more hours (!!), trying to find an alternative escape possibility - full of hope and disappointments (but me and the team survived!)

The way you move and play, when there is no saving, is totally different, which made this mission a real memorable one!

[garble 0]

Hello

 

Its the pain in the butt to save people and get Kerry to make it out alive in this mission.

Would it follow over into the next part whenever its released if Kerry dies? Because i really don't want him dead.

 

And if it does carry over then i'd rather go back and pick to go with NATO.

Because Miller was really mean to me.

[mmm 35]

Funny how this mission is the closest to the "open, non-linear" campaign that was promised before release. Probably one single campaign mission that impose the least restriction on you. They should have turned this into a "retake altis" mission.

[major_barnes1987 33]

Funny how this mission is the closest to the "open, non-linear" campaign that was promised before release. Probably one single campaign mission that impose the least restriction on you. They should have turned this into a "retake altis" mission.

 

Totally agree.You could find survivors and equipment to help you achive that.And/or the Paradise found mission could've been a warfare type of mission in all Altis.I hope the new campaign will end with a warfare mission or at least include a warfare mission at some point.

[zivtix 0]

looks nice