Helicopter Feedback (Dev branch)

[b00ce 160]

Hey b00ce you can adjust the deadzone and input curves in the controller options. I made a huge improvement there with my HOTAS Cougar, simped rudder pedals and trackIR setup. I'm a fan of DCS too :D

The deadzone is set very high default at 10%. I took it down to zero.

I've tried that, it still doesn't feel right. The rudder and throttle axises are fine, though I get 0-100% in 50% of the throttle's range of motion.

[[frl]myke 14]

I've tried that, it still doesn't feel right. The rudder and throttle axises are fine, though I get 0-100% in 50% of the throttle's range of motion.

I'm actually quite happy with how the controls work (though i'm absolutely no pilot IRL). I have mapped analogue throttle up to the up axis of the throttle and analogue throttle down to the down axis. Gives quite good control and i'm somewhat proud to say that i never use autohover. :D

[gatordev 219]

That's what I'm saying, the mixer will move the pedals and stick when you pull collective, even without SAS/BOOST and the AFCS running.

For the record, I think we're in violent agreement, but just to clarify what I was saying... What I meant is that with SAS/BOOST off, and when the controls are mixed when the pilot makes an input on one control, and then it moves another control (like collective-to-yaw), that's still not enough to counter the actual forces on the airframe. The pilot still needs to make his own counter-input on top of the mixing (or dampen the mixing with his inputs). My point was that even with mixing, with no boost (and/or AFCS) the stick monkey still has to do his part.

Booce, I'm pretty sure you get this, but just trying to make my earlier post more coherent.

[b00ce 160]

Myke;2690124']I'm actually quite happy with how the controls work (though i'm absolutely no pilot IRL). I have mapped analogue throttle up to the up axis of the throttle and analogue throttle down to the down axis. Gives quite good control and i'm somewhat proud to say that i never use autohover. :D

Even before I played a lot of DCS' date=' the dead zone felt wrong and I flew like a drunken Michel J. Fox.

and save my HOTAS for the real sims.

For the record, I think we're in violent agreement, but just to clarify what I was saying...

Yep. lol

See my new avatar.

[gatordev 219]

Enjoy da islands. I miss that kind of flying. I did my first tour there and it's some of the best flying I've done in a helo...and certainly a change from Rucker for you, I'm sure. I went from HI to Pensacola for an instructor tour. Definitely a change in scenery.

[b00ce 160]

Enjoy da islands. I miss that kind of flying. I did my first tour there and it's some of the best flying I've done in a helo...and certainly a change from Rucker for you, I'm sure. I went from HI to Pensacola for an instructor tour. Definitely a change in scenery.

Never been to Rucker, I'm a crew chief. :p

[quickvenge 10]

Hat's off to the devs for allowing me to blow up armored cars again with DARs. I haven't taken apart the PBO to go look at the actual damage values. But cars go boom again after getting a direct hit with a DAR. Also liking the gun convergence.

As for me expecting too much, I probably am. If I want to really SIM, I actually use Xplane and putt around in an R22. Flying a helo has a lot to be desired in arma 3 most of them stated in this thread already. But since arma is an infantry sim at its core, I have had more fun times in it than DCS. One of the most exhilarating time I've had is getting shot apart and falling gracefully into the middle of town held by enemy with armor and fighting my way back to friendly lines with support from a blackfoot. In DCS, I would have been done after touching down.

I'll be content if TKOH just gives the current choppers a lot more agility, and the ability to flare within a reasonable distance and not gain altitude. The choppers in arma seem to float instead of fall. Also as b00ce stated ARMA's analog controls are kind of weird. I also have an easier time with mouse and keyboard. It's more precise as it seems to coordinate yaw and roll during mouse movement. I still force myself to fly with a HTOAS setup with pedals however. I run with 0 deadzone. I don't think its a centering thing. It just seems to have a really strong input filter along with a sluggish flight model. You can move it slightly and it will move but just seems to take awhile to register. In TKOH there seems to be no input filter, making it really sensitive. But I actually prefer it that way over the sluggish input controls in arma 3. In Arma 3, I use the joystick to the limits to get any kind of responsiveness. In TKOH, its millimeter movements otherwise you'll go into pilot oscillation particularly for the light helicopter.

I'll be ecstatic though if they better modeled all the helicopters to their real word counter part.

[gatordev 219]

Never been to Rucker, I'm a crew chief. :p

Damn. I could have sworn I saw "AL" in your "Location" field. Oh well, still, enjoy HI.

[Randolf 1]

The damage model of helicopters is buggy beyond belief and could use improvements. For example, if you go fast enough and just gently scratch the ground, you either suffer massive damage or straight up explode. I found this out when I tried to "belly slide" on a runway.

Also, touching poles or trees with the body of your chopper causes damage way too easily while apparently the rotor can never suffer any damage no matter what you touch with it.

In addition, I once managed to explode a helicopter by just shooting about five times through it's glass window with a rifle. I never even hit the chopper itself.

[rocksy 11]

Hope they fix the lift problem when you flair and drop the collective.

The damage model of helicopters is buggy beyond belief and could use improvements. For example, if you go fast enough and just gently scratch the ground, you either suffer massive damage or straight up explode. I found this out when I tried to "belly slide" on a runway.

Also, touching poles or trees with the body of your chopper causes damage way too easily while apparently the rotor can never suffer any damage no matter what you touch with it.

In addition, I once managed to explode a helicopter by just shooting about five times through it's glass window with a rifle. I never even hit the chopper itself.

Check this autoratation landing out, it hits fairly hard.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Rocksy

[b00ce 160]

The damage model of helicopters is buggy beyond belief and could use improvements. For example, if you go fast enough and just gently scratch the ground, you either suffer massive damage or straight up explode. I found this out when I tried to "belly slide" on a runway.

Also, touching poles or trees with the body of your chopper causes damage way too easily while apparently the rotor can never suffer any damage no matter what you touch with it.

In addition, I once managed to explode a helicopter by just shooting about five times through it's glass window with a rifle. I never even hit the chopper itself.

You can't just do a roll-on however fast you want, even in the real life. Anything over 100 kph in ArmA will kill you and/or your bird; which isn't terrible as far as helicopters go. As for the hitting poles thing, don't do that. Why would you complain that you damage your aircraft upon hitting things? The rotor does take damage, about on the same level as the fuselage.

Hope they fix the lift problem when you flair and drop the collective.

Check this autoratation landing out, it hits fairly hard.

What "problem" are you talking about?

[cochise 10]

I think he's saying that when you drop the collective there isn't enough of a "loss of lift". When you enter an autorotation and have dropped the collective depending on the weight and load on the rotors you more than often will have to load them up again by pulling a little more pitch (raising the collective) to stop from overspeeding the rotor rpm. This could be modeled a little differently. TKOH has this modeled a little better but the medium and heavy are still too squirly with too much requirement and sensitivity in the pedals.

[kuIoodporny 45]

In addition, I once managed to explode a helicopter by just shooting about five times through it's glass window with a rifle. I never even hit the chopper itself.

Please provide repro mission or video. Regardless of how hard I try, it's impossible unless I set damage of helicopter to 0.999 prior to shooting.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I've had times where my heli survived remarkable things, as well as when my heli died through moments it should have lived. It almost balances itself out. As for belly sliding, i think since the helicopters have wheels, it would be Amazing to add taxing on runways somehow. The way i thought of this, is having Auto-hover cover that role of taking off completely vertical, and when you turn it off, it allows you to take off forward if your going fast enough, but slow allows for a steady Taxi. Don't know if it's possible, just a suggestion.

Here's an exampe of it IRL. (In Real Life)

[Wiki 1558]

There is a problem with the HUD of the blackfoot.

When pilote using manual fire, it doesn't hit where we aim. It shoot left too much with cannon or rockets.

Need fix on this.

[Variable 322]

When I hold control and move the mouse my head travels inside the cockpit as if it is detached from my shoulders. I removed all the view keys that looked like they have something to do with it, I have nothing more to unmap, but still it does that. We use control to talk on the radio using TS and TFAR radio mod. How can this head movement be disabled?

[John Kozak 14]

When I hold control and move the mouse my head travels inside the cockpit as if it is detached from my shoulders. I removed all the view keys that looked like they have something to do with it, I have nothing more to unmap, but still it does that. We use control to talk on the radio using TS and TFAR radio mod. How can this head movement be disabled?

I guess by remapping "stance modifier key" from Ctrl. Or - you can remap TFAR key from userconfig.

[Variable 322]

I guess by remapping "stance modifier key" from Ctrl. Or - you can remap TFAR key from userconfig.

Thanks. Both are bad options for me... Why the hell would anyone want to move his head like this is beyond me.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Thanks. Both are bad options for me... Why the hell would anyone want to move his head like this is beyond me.

I guess that has something to do with TrackIR or something. Just digital way to do the head movement with control. I was about to bind some controls under CTRL until I noticed that. Need to check the cfg better but I remember I coulfn't find anything and disabling TrackIR controls didn't help.

[Variable 322]

I guess that has something to do with TrackIR or something. Just digital way to do the head movement with control. I was about to bind some controls under CTRL until I noticed that. Need to check the cfg better but I remember I coulfn't find anything and disabling TrackIR controls didn't help.

Yeah I thought as much. This control should be disabled in vehicles, jets, and choppers. It has no value in them and can only get in the way of using control as a stance adjustment key, which I believe a lot of players do. Please correct me if I'm wrong and this control IS used in some way I'm not yet aware of.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Variable

[the_demongod 31]

Since the Helicopters DLC is inbound, I thought this thread is once again relevant (dug it up from a year ago :P)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?164668-The-Mi-48-Kajman

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I just notice something really... Idk, annoying, and un-emmersive. I was in the back seat of a Mohawk a second ago, and someone else was flying. I more specifically noticed the basice flight model of the helicopters isn't fluid enough. I was watching how terribly instantaneously the helicopter would pitch up an down from input of probably the keyboard. Now, what i'm getting at is that even in the Battlefield series, the helicopters over the internet were more fluid with movement from keys. So, i was thinking that the Helicopers should act more fluidly in movement, so it's less noticeable that someone is using a keyboard. It just looks really, really bad.

[blackpixxel 53]

I think that 99% of the BF3 players use the mouse to fly. That would explain the smoother helicopter behaviour. In opposition there are also many people who prefer to fly with keboard only (which is not understandable for me).

You also have to consider that BF3 has a much better netcode than Arma. I dont know if there is something like a tickrate in Arma, but when inside a helicopter it always looks like the game is not really smoothing the frames between two 'ticks'.

The flying itself will be much smoother with the new flighmodel, because Joysicks are absolutely necessary to fly those things and rapid movements are very dangerous for such an instabil aircraft.

[Antorugby 2]

I just notice something really... Idk, annoying, and un-emmersive. I was in the back seat of a Mohawk a second ago, and someone else was flying. I more specifically noticed the basice flight model of the helicopters isn't fluid enough. I was watching how terribly instantaneously the helicopter would pitch up an down from input of probably the keyboard. Now, what i'm getting at is that even in the Battlefield series, the helicopters over the internet were more fluid with movement from keys. So, i was thinking that the Helicopers should act more fluidly in movement, so it's less noticeable that someone is using a keyboard. It just looks really, really bad.

It can be the connection, when you are in a vehicle you are connected directly to who is flying, so maybe it was his connection making everything not fluid.

Also, I never saw someone using a keyboard to fly, what's the point?

Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 utilizzando Tapatalk

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I fly with keyboard, on my end it looks smooth, but as said before, i believe the issue is in the connectivity between two clients. When flying, it's ok. It's smooth, but not completely smooth, i guess it's just the super simplistic flight model of current helicopters. However, when someone else is flying, and they're connecting is ok - moderate, you gets times where it looks like the input from their end, assuming it's keyboard, is really un smooth. If this could be improved visually, it'd be cool, if not, it's not really that big of a deal, because well... Multiplayer, you can't really stop some kind of dsync/lag here and there.

For the record, i fly via. Mouse and Keyboard only, and only Keyboard in battlefield. Not saying anything is bad with it at all, as i can out do those with a joystick. :cool: