The A-164 WIPEOUT Fixed Wing Aircraft

[Wiki 1558]

re-downloading dev bracnh.

how much is it improved? can we handle it like the A-10?

[Tonci87 163]

re-downloading dev bracnh.

how much is it improved? can we handle it like the A-10?

Yeah, pretty much, even better I would say. You can line up your target and then fly at it without having to fight a very nose heavy aircraft

[izaiak 1]

No ILS on the a-10 ... Hey BI'S are you testing what you are doing on the game ?

[pils 49]

Oh and something else. Try to shoot the pilot from the side, aiming a few centimeters below the glass. You can shoot right into the cockpit with 6.5mm. Probably even with less powerful calibers ..

[carlostex 38]

Oh and something else. Try to shoot the pilot from the side, aiming a few centimeters below the glass. You can shoot right into the cockpit with 6.5mm. Probably even with less powerful calibers ..

Yep, NATO should bring back the A-10 because it is a far better machine than its futuristic counterpart and supposed replacement.

To simulate a mixture of 30mm DU rounds and HE BIS should alter the values to around:

caliber -- 7 to 8 ish

hit -- between 130 and 150

indirecthit -- around 10 to 11

indirect hit range -- around 1 to 1.5

Edited March 27, 2014 by CarlosTex

[saine 19]

Was there ever an ILS in an ArmA Plane? And is it really needed? Even I can land a plane with this Flight Model.

But until now, I couldnt figure out how to shoot something. Nothing locks as target, and unguided rockets, bombs, even my gunruns miss most of the Time. And I have really no idea what im doing wrong.

What i really miss is a more detailed Damage System.

[Steel.G 10]

First of all, I really like the 2 new aircraft are implemented into arma 3.

The LCD screens in the cockpit display some information, thats also nice. But what isnt so nice IMO, is that unguided munitions dont have the "impact point" displayed in the HUD.

So saying that, what would be nice was if there was an "indicator" wich messured the distance to the ground, displaying Max engage distance for the weapon and the Min engage range for the weapon. If the object (on the ground) was withing the range parameters, in RL (in some planes) there is a crosshair that displayes the "impact point" an the HUD. This "impact point" shifts the crosshairs in realtime, to make the chosen unguided munition to hit where the "impact point" is aimed.

I really hope this wil me implemented into the game, as this will make CAS way more effective!

Thank you verry much

Steel.G

ps.

Here is a video about air to ground.

Just forget about the TV screen in the video. What to look for the the column on the left (max-min engagement range(although the weapon is used before max distance is even reached)of the HUD and the riticle wich is used last to aim the S7 rockets. I dont want to make commercial for another game, but i believe that HUD "impact point" is essential to firing unguided munitions.

[izaiak 1]

Was there ever an ILS in an ArmA Plane? And is it really needed? Even I can land a plane with this Flight Model.

But until now, I couldnt figure out how to shoot something. Nothing locks as target, and unguided rockets, bombs, even my gunruns miss most of the Time. And I have really no idea what im doing wrong.

What i really miss is a more detailed Damage System.

Yes on arma planes there is an ILS ! Yes it is needed when you fly with fog.

No problems to lock anything for me.

[pils 49]

Yep, NATO should bring back the A-10 because it is a far better machine than its futuristic counterpart and supposed replacement.

Yea really :D

But seriously, that must be a glitch in the cockpit protection, because the glass is resistant to 7.62mm +.

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Was there ever an ILS in an ArmA Plane? And is it really needed? Even I can land a plane with this Flight Model.

But until now, I couldnt figure out how to shoot something. Nothing locks as target, and unguided rockets, bombs, even my gunruns miss most of the Time. And I have really no idea what im doing wrong.

What i really miss is a more detailed Damage System.

The 30mm gatling is too weak. I'm not voting it to be a tank buster (anymore), because that won't work on modern MBTs. But even the APCs can take several direct hits and are still far from being destroyed.

And the rate if fire is still too low. I know real life values are impossible, but I'm sure Arma 3 can do more than the current 20 rounds per second.

Edited March 28, 2014 by pils

[carlostex 38]

The 30mm gatling is too weak. I'm not voting it to be a tank buster (anymore), because that won't work on modern MBTs. But even the APCs can take several direct hits and are still far from being destroyed.

And the rate if fire is still too low. I know real life values are impossible, but I'm sure Arma 3 can do more than the current 20 RPM.

In my previous post i suggested a set of values that IMHO should be quite fair in terms of balance.

The reason why the gun is to weak is because BIS set the cannon to fire 30mm HE rounds. These rounds are not good against armor.

The values i posted should solve that problem, the values are slightly stronger than normal 30mm AP rounds in the game config, because this cannon is supposed to fire Depleted Uranium rounds which are better than standard AP rounds. The hit value is not much stronger than normal AP, but the biggest advantage of DU rounds is its penetrating capability. That's why i suggested a caliber value between 7 and 8. My suggested values for hit are just slightly above normal 30mm AP rounds, and allows the DU rounds to compete with 40mm AP rounds in destructive capability. Seems fair to me.

The indirecthit and indirecthirange i upped a bit to slightly simulate a mix of DU and HE rounds, like the GAU-8's have today.

[pils 49]

In my previous post i suggested a set of values that IMHO should be quite fair in terms of balance.

The reason why the gun is to weak is because BIS set the cannon to fire 30mm HE rounds. These rounds are not good against armor.

The values i posted should solve that problem, the values are slightly stronger than normal 30mm AP rounds in the game config, because this cannon is supposed to fire Depleted Uranium rounds which are better than standard AP rounds. The hit value is not much stronger than normal AP, but the biggest advantage of DU rounds is its penetrating capability. That's why i suggested a caliber value between 7 and 8. My suggested values for hit are just slightly above normal 30mm AP rounds, and allows the DU rounds to compete with 40mm AP rounds in destructive capability. Seems fair to me.

The indirecthit and indirecthirange i upped a bit to slightly simulate a mix of DU and HE rounds, like the GAU-8's have today.

That sounds perfect to me! Did you open a ticket or are there any tickets around about the GAU-8 effects?

When using these parameters, what would the 'splash damage' be comparable to? Because imho it should be at least like the 40mm HE. (

)

[carlostex 38]

That sounds perfect to me! Did you open a ticket or are there any tickets around about the GAU-8 effects?

When using these parameters, what would the 'splash damage' be comparable to? Because imho it should be at least like the 40mm HE. (

)

No i haven't open a ticket, but i would certainly appreciate if someone do it for me. Feel free to use my suggested values.

In the video we see that most of the rounds hitting are not punching huge holes, that's because those rounds are good to penetrate hard armor, so they go through the house like a red hot needle punching through butter.

Spash damaged shouldn't be very high, i disagree that it should be like 40mm HE. Most of the rounds are going to be DU and not HE.

Of course these rounds won't be penetrating the hardest part of tanks, but even tanks hit a from top and behind may have a bad day if hit repeatedly by these rounds. Tracks can be severly damaged too, and a tank with no tracks is a sitting duck.

[xendance 3]

Are the memory positions still a WIP? Currently all the wing memory positions return [0,0,0].

For example ((vehicle player) selectionPosition "rocket_2"); returns [0,0,0].

Nose gun is correct though.

[subs17 9]

What? You mean that "fake CCIP" that merely drew a line from the center of the HUD to the little circle that estimates where your plane will fly to (don't know the technical term for it)?

It does that in Arma 3 planes when bombs are selected too. Only proper implementation of CCIP in Arma 2, if I remember correctly, was by Nou.

I agree and a CCRP mode for LGBs being buddy lased with HUD cues would help in this way there would be realistic CAS support modelled. There is a lot of potential for Arma3 with such basic Hud modes modelled.

[nerdwing 13]

I think its worth asking if the Avenger of this time period would even have a DU mix. Against modern armor, the cannon is of questionable use against things bigger than a T-62. It has however proven very effective in CAS of infantry. As such, maybe a pure HE loadout is a good thing from that perspective?

If anything, I think slightly boosted HE damage with slightly higher AoE is a good move.

[carlostex 38]

I think its worth asking if the Avenger of this time period would even have a DU mix. Against modern armor, the cannon is of questionable use against things bigger than a T-62. It has however proven very effective in CAS of infantry. As such, maybe a pure HE loadout is a good thing from that perspective?

If anything, I think slightly boosted HE damage with slightly higher AoE is a good move.

Currently the A-10 carries a mix of AP DU rounds and HE. My guess is that for every 10 bullets only 1 or 2 are gonna be HE. While even 30mm DU rounds would not be very effective against frontal tank armor, they can still cause heavy damage on tank tracks and other vulnerable areas, such as from a tank behind. APC's, lightly armored vehicles and logistic vehicles such as trucks are main targets of the gatling cannon.

The cannon can still be effective against troop concentrations as the cannon rate of fire and dispersion could potentially disrupt enemy movement and cause massive disorganization/confusion/shock.

The main problem is that the values i suggested aren't exagerated but the current hitpoint system is. In real life 30mm rounds would bounce of in heavy armor but in Arma world damage is cumulative. Even though a bullet might not penetrate it still can cause too much cumulative damage.

[tholozor 18]

IIRC, combat mix is one HEI for every five rounds of API.

[carlostex 38]

IIRC, combat mix is one HEI for every five rounds of API.

So that goes with my estimate. :)

[Harzach 2505]

Currently the A-10 carries a mix of AP DU rounds and HE.

CM is not being used in Afghanistan. HEI only.

IIRC, combat mix is one HEI for every five rounds of API.

The actual ratio is 4:1.

[carlostex 38]

The Wipeout ammo parameters were changed in April 1st devbranch.

Now it is as follows:

CALIBER: 5

HIT: 80

INDIRECTHIT: 12

INDIRECTHITRANGE: 2

I've tested the aircraft and definitely it is a lot better now. I think that to simulate a 4:1 ratio mix of APDU and HEI rounds the values should still be a little higher, but i also think that the values i suggested previously were too strong.

So this way i wouldn't touch the indirecthit and indirecthitrange, i think this value is good enough, but for the ratio the APDU rounds should have higher values, just because supposedly these are not normal AP but enhanced AP because of the harder DU core. So the following would be IMHO perfect:

CALIBER: 6 --- penetrates deeper

HIT: 100-120 --- between these values around 20 to 30% improvement

INDIRECTHIT: 12 --- the same as it is right now

INDIRECTHITRANGE: 2 --- the same as it is right now

Keep it up BIS you are getting there!!

[carlostex 38]

I just did a few more tests to check how effective the cannon ammo is.

It is definitely a lot better than it was before, but after testing i still believe it needs just a little more kick.

At the point i took this screenshot the APC, a FV720-Mora, took 50 direct hits from behind. It took around 40 more bullets to completely destroy it. I'd say this is a bit too much. From that distance 50 rounds should be enough to level that thing specially from the behind. Now this raises the question, hitpoints are too high for certain parts of these APC's or the Gatling cannon rounds are still a bit weak. Maybe it is a combination of the two.

I think these values would be great:

CALIBER: 6 --- penetrates deeper

HIT: 100 --- provides a 25% improvement

INDIRECTHIT: 12 --- the same as it is right now

INDIRECTHITRANGE: 2 --- the same as it is right now

By comparison B_30mm_APFSDS has the following values:

CALIBER: 6

HIT: 120

INDIRECTHIT: 8

INDIRECTHITRANGE: 0.2

I think the loss of 20 hit points for the Gatling Ammo also compensates for its advantage in terms of indirecthit values, to simulate a ratio of AP and HE rounds. Assuming the ratio is 4:1 i think the values i presented above for the Gatling ammo are pretty fair and balanced.

So the only thing BIS needs to do is to up the caliber and hit values by around 20% and 25% respectively. :cool:

---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------

OK, i just found something more to corroborate what i've stated before. Aircraft can sustain more hits from the gatling cannon ammo than they should. And this is specially right for helicopters. Even not so armored 'copters take way too much hits.

The Kajman is just crazy, takes loads of direct hits. I mean could you imagine a Mi-24 Hind surviving more than 10 direct hits up front from a GAU-8 at a distance of some 300 meters? No way, Hinds have been shot down by less rounds fired from M61 and that's 20mm.

I think the values i suggested should help quite a bit in this regard. It may be that choppers have too much armor, but this also might be to compensate AI extreme accuracy.

[Bouben 3]

A question:

Aren't planes flying too slow when attacking ground units? Planes are now often killed by AI.

[carlostex 38]

A question:

Aren't planes flying too slow when attacking ground units? Planes are now often killed by AI.

AI is pretty lousy flying fixed wing. That being said, that are still problems for the player as well. The flight model is still not very good, and HUD symbology doesn't work for the most important part on ARMA, and that is put your weapons on target.

[carlostex 38]

One cool feature to add to these planes is FLIR. Since we now have PIP technology on game possible, i would love to see the possibility of FLIR on one of the MFD's. It would help to find targets on ground.

[the_demongod 31]

One cool feature to add to these planes is FLIR. Since we now have PIP technology on game possible, i would love to see the possibility of FLIR on one of the MFD's. It would help to find targets on ground.

would definitely be cool, just like an enhanced version of the TGP (and DCS A-10 players out there?).

EDIT: After flying a ton over the last few days, I can tell they really didn't expect anyone to be using the cannon on armor, or from any sort of distance. Ifrits can only be killed in the last few seconds before you pull up during a strafing run, because at further distances the spread of the gun (which is perfectly fine) causes the bullet hit percentage to drop significantly, making it almost impossible to kill from medium/long range. The fact that we don't have CCIP or even a basic auto-zero (like the Tigris/Cheetah) makes matters worse.

I read somewhere that it only takes as few as 8 GAU-8/A rounds to kill a tank, that most rounds of the A-10 cannon fall anywhere within a 20-meter radius of the target. The engagement distance for the A-10 can be as far as 2 nautical miles, and the only reason this is possible is because of the sheer output of rounds and the few rounds it takes to kill. I wish bohemia would implement a damage model similar to this one.

Edited May 2, 2014 by the_Demongod