Ukraine General

[aleksadragutin 9]

When Russia sent aid to Serbia earlier this year they also used military vehicles, but they were painted white with red and blue stripes and had logos on them.

[beastcat 14]

About the trucks, what vilas said holds ground. While it is very strange, there is nothing inherently wrong with repainting military trucks, since they are property of the government. It is of course very strange and suspicious, that the trucks have been repainted only shortly before their task was assigned and having most of the paintshops done on military trucks stationed at the border with other military.

About everybody agreeing, the red cross already published a statement before that they did not agree on anything with the russian government, they didn't even hold a discussion. Of course that was a few days ago, but it would be strange how they can organise such a huge operation withing such a short amount of time, without telling anyone.

As for Ukraine, according to the FoxNews twitter (How much you believe it is up to you), Ukraine said that they won't let the "humanitarian" aid past the border.

And according to CNN (Again, twitter, how believable it is, is again up to you), the Red Cross said that the "humanitarian" convoy is not part of the international deal to send aid.

Edited August 12, 2014 by beastcat

[surpher 1]

Russia's Emergency Service MChS says its trucks will not cross into Ukraine. The aid will be transferred into other trucks at border

https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/499140058268835841

[beastcat 14]

The Insider - A russian helicopter and a drone violated ukrainian airspace once again

[mistyronin 1181]

https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/499140058268835841

If they are not gonna cross the border, why have they painted them white? So the Russian Army don't shoot them?

[sudden 14]

I wish I never saw this topic. Common sense is leaving this world. :(

When U.S.S.R. fell down in 1991 we thought it would be the end of all wars. Now the war is knocking in our door. Shells from Ukraine are falling on our land.

But it's not guns and tanks that make all of this possible. It's just fake news and youtube videos. Somehow it happened that you don't need any evidence to prove something any more.

Crimea wants to go back to Russia, blame Russia. Some guys in Eastern Ukraine don't want to accept new govenment, blame Russia. A plane shot down in the military zone, blame Russia.

ISIS fights back in Iraq, blame Russia, HAMAS fires rockets on Israel, blame Russia.

We have no evidence it's Russia, blame Russia!

And some guys are even crazy enough to say we bomb our own land in Rostov.

How far you gonna go, mates?

Edited August 12, 2014 by sudden

[aleksadragutin 9]

It is pointless getting into an argument with people here. The sheer numbers will overwhelm you even if they are not making sense all the time.

Edited August 12, 2014 by aleksadragutin

[sudayev 27]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AXXA46Wngo#t=50

An interesting idea of what can you smuggle in a truck container

[beastcat 14]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AXXA46Wngo#t=50

An interesting idea of what can you smuggle in a truck container

Why is that even a thing? Isn't that against the rules or something?

[negah 26]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AXXA46Wngo#t=50

An interesting idea of what can you smuggle in a truck container

Dude now think again what would happen if Russia would really smuggle weapons to eastern ukraine in that convoy.

The ukrainian troops WILL check every single truck there, because they WANT to find weapons there.

Now the idea that the ukrainian troops want to place the load on other trucks when the russian convoy raches the ukrainian border makes me think that the humanitarian aid meant for the people in eastern ukraine will land in the ukrainian army (which is poorly supplied as well). Also they might place some weapons among the humanitarian goods and claim they were there when they started unloading the trucks.

[sudayev 27]

Maybe Ukrainins aren't that stupid to plant weapons because this would lead to problems. Might as well russians smuggle some weapon deliberately only to spark an incident, convoy gets destroyed and Puting has a good excuse to move to army in. Agents can use the most ugliest methods to deceive the enemy and achieve their goal. A few trucks or even men can be sacrificed for the "greater good".

[sudden 14]

It is pointless getting into an argument with people here. The sheer numbers will overwhelm you even if they are not making sense all the time.

Thanks for the support, mate!

Actually, there's nothing to argue about, because in fact we know nothing. Terrabytes of videos and photos over Internet actually have zero information. And anybody can do this kind of proof in 5 minutes in any part of the world.

The guy who writes angry posts from Donetsk can actually sit somewhere in Colorado. The crying girl complaining that her husband was killed by separatists or military could be a professional actress. But she also could be not. How can you tell? Tons of this crap is made only for one purpose. To create emotions. And emotions are enemies to facts, because as a human you interpret facts through emotions.

There's a information war out there. And it's pity to see that it came here to the BI forums.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Thanks for the support, mate!

Actually, there's nothing to argue about, because in fact we know nothing. Terrabytes of videos and photos over Internet actually have zero information. And anybody can do this kind of proof in 5 minutes in any part of the world.

The guy who writes angry posts from Donetsk can actually sit somewhere in Colorado. The crying girl complaining that her husband was killed by separatists or military could be a professional actress. But she also could be not. How can you tell? Tons of this crap is made only for one purpose. To create emotions. And emotions are enemies to facts, because as a human you interpret facts through emotions.

There's a information war out there. And it's pity to see that it came here to the BI forums.

Been saying that while back, but everyone apparently knows everything now.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AXXA46Wngo#t=50

An interesting idea of what can you smuggle in a truck container

World in Conflict campaign. :D

[sudden 14]

Been saying that while back, but everyone apparently knows everything now.

Yeah it's a common problem. And it all comes from fears. It's always more comfortable to convince yourself that you know everything (even if it's wrong) than to accept the fact you know nothing.

West is good, East is bad. Everything is in right place.

The only problem is that people are dying. But who cares?

World in Conflict campaign.

Don't you know that T-90 is called a flying tank? Boooo!!!!

Evil Russian humanitarian convoy!!! (310 kB)

Edited August 12, 2014 by sudden

[mistyronin 1181]

I've already quoted the official press notes from the Kremlin and from the Red Cross, and now the one from the Ukraine Gov. ( that is translated, because they didn't provide an English one )

( Ukraine presidency ) A telephone conversation with President of Ukraine President of the International Committee of the Red Cross

A telephone conversation of President Poroshenko with the President of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), Peter Maurer.

Peter Maurer said that he appreciated the President of Ukraine initiated an international mission of humanitarian assistance. He assured that the International Committee of the Red Cross is ready to provide all possible assistance to this mission.

The parties agreed that the Red Cross is taking care of all the organizational and logistical issues on the international mission. Peter Maurer said Peter Poroshenko its intention to send to Ukraine head of the regional branch of the Red Cross.

The Head of State invited the President of the International Committee of the Red Cross to visit Ukraine in the future. Peter Maurer gratefully accepted the invitation of the President Poroshenko.

BTW It's nice to read about you Sudden :)

[sudden 14]

I've already quoted the official press notes from the Kremlin and from the Red Cross, and now the one from the Ukraine Gov. ( that is translated, because they didn't provide an English one )

( Ukraine presidency ) A telephone conversation with President of Ukraine President of the International Committee of the Red Cross

BTW It's nice to read about you Sudden :)

It's nice to read about you too, my friend!

I just read few pages of this topic and was shocked by the amount of hate stuff. Couldn't just pass by. :-)))

[mistyronin 1181]

I just read few pages of this topic and was shocked by the amount of hate stuff. Couldn't just pass by. :-)))

Hahaha, the off-topic geo-political threads are always a bit crazy, as everyone defends their ideas with passion ( some with over-passion ).

But I think ( I hope ) that most of the critics are against the Governments and not against the cultures or people.

BTW I agree 100% that we should spend more time checking the sources and recognizing that in any conflict there is fog of war, which prevent us to know what is happening there clearly. And there are a lot of people with different interests who spend lots of money in making it worst to manipulate all of us.

In fact I have my theories that it all may be just a feint, scaring everyone with the fear of a possible new Cold War, that way armies from everywhere in the world will rearm and buy lots of weapons, benefiting the main exporters ( USA, Russia and so on ). The problem is that is a dangerous game.

I don't know if you have seen in the previous pages the reports from Vice News, IMO are as good as journalism can go in that occasions ( they even have a journalist in each side reporting of the different events ).

[sudayev 27]

StopFake - Fake: hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers deserted to Russia and asked for asylum there

Heh, this pretty much remind me what my grandfather used to relate when soviets invaded Poland in 1939. Soviets launched a huge propaganda, there was a bunch of propaganda flyers, radio transmission like "Dear Polish brothers, come to our side because we have everything from food, homes to worker happiness", "Some of your soldiers and officers have already chosen" (a grim reference to elites massacred in woods of Katyn). Simply land of milk and honey. There were some stupid people who believed and marched towards the east but they never came back and their families never heard about them after the war was ended.

[spooky lynx 73]

Quite impressive video of devastated remains of 72th UA army brigade near Sverdlovsk.

[beastcat 14]

Heh, this pretty much remind me what my grandfather used to relate when soviets invaded Poland in 1939. Soviets launched a huge propaganda, there was a bunch of propaganda flyers, radio transmission like "Dear Polish brothers, come to our side because we have everything from food, homes to worker happiness", "Some of your soldiers and officers have already chosen" (a grim reference to elites massacred in woods of Katyn). Simply land of milk and honey. There were some stupid people who believed and marched towards the east but they never came back and their families never heard about them after the war was ended.

Its always easier when the enemy fights himself. By the way, on the theme of "come to our side, we have cookies", there is this video:

http://youtu.be/trZQVKyfTiA

Of course its in russian, so our russian speaking friends can understand it.

Its called "You still dont want to join the Russian Federation? Then this video is for you."

Its basically about how shit Russia is, made out of snippets of russian news and media. And no, Im not just bashing russia again, I just couldnt find better words.

And according to this thingy here, the trucks are heading to the Rostov Oblast, meaning that if they will move to Ukraine from there, they will pass the border that is under control of the separatists. That basically means Ukraine can't stop them.

BBC - Ukraine may block Russian humanitarian aid convoy

Mr Lysenko said Ukraine had three conditions for receiving the aid:

*That it should pass through a border post controlled by Ukrainian government guards

*That it should be accompanied by Red Cross representatives

*That a decision should be made about the amount being sent, its destination and route.

Another Ukrainian official, Valery Chaly, said Ukraine would not allow access to a convoy accompanied by the Russian military or Emergencies Ministry.

Edited August 12, 2014 by beastcat

[aleksadragutin 9]

Its always easier when the enemy fights himself. By the way, on the theme of "come to our side, we have cookies", there is this video:

http://youtu.be/trZQVKyfTiA

Of course its in russian, so our russian speaking friends can understand it.

Its called "You still dont want to join the Russian Federation? Then this video is for you."

Its basically about how shit Russia is, made out of snippets of russian news and media. And no, Im not just bashing russia again, I just couldnt find better words.

Do you realise I can now compile bad news reports for any country in the world for any period of time ever and put it in a context that suits me. What the fuck are you talking about? You want to say that your country has no such issues? School example of propaganda.

[beastcat 14]

Do you realise I can now compile bad news reports for any country in the world for any period of time ever and put it in a context that suits me. What the fuck are you talking about? You want to say that your country has no such issues? School example of propaganda.

Why do you always take everything so close to heart? Did I say that my country or every other country for that matter has no issues? No.

Also I would like to see someone make a compilation like this for the USA everybody hates for example. I would like to see how the united states has shit road networks, the highest rate of heroin addictions, the highest rate of child suicides, how its citizens are as happy as Nigeria and Iraq, how state critical journalists are being killed, how hundreds of thousands of people die due to alcohol, how the income inequality is one of the highest in the world on so on. I mean it must be super easy, right?

[aleksadragutin 9]

No, it is perpetuating something that may or may not be true. This is Ukraine thread so either open a thread called "bashing Russia" and post something like that there or stop posting such things at all. News are fine, what ever they might be, but videos like this that serve purely the purpose of demonising someone are not fine.

[beastcat 14]

No, it is perpetuating something that may or may not be true. This is Ukraine thread so either open a thread called "bashing Russia" and post something like that there or stop posting such things at all. News are fine, what ever they might be, but videos like this that serve purely the purpose of demonising someone are not fine.

It was meant as a reply for Sudayev, but I can delete it if its such a problem.

Does this still count as on topic:

The Moscow Times - Russia Announces Military Exercises in Kuril Islands Claimed by Japan

Edited August 12, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) Russian aid convoy 'will not be admitted into Ukraine'

A Ukrainian security spokesman has said that a humanitarian convoy Russia has dispatched to eastern Ukraine will not be admitted into the country.

Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's national security and defence council, said the convoy had not been certified by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).

A convoy of 280 Russian trucks headed for Ukraine early on Tuesday, a day after agreement was reached on an international humanitarian relief mission.

But the ICRC, which was due to coordinate the operation, said it had no information on what the trucks were carrying or where they were going. That has raised fears in Ukraine and the west, where leaders have voiced concerns that Russia could use the initiative as a pretext for sending troops into separatist-held territory.

An aide to the Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, said Kiev would require the ICRC to reload the aid onto other transport vehicles at the border if it was to enter. "We will not allow any escort by the emergencies ministry of Russia or by the military. Everything will be under the control of the Ukrainian side," Valery Chaly said.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

( RIA Novosti ) Russian Humanitarian Convoy to Arrive at Ukrainian Border Wednesday – Source

The arrival of a Russian humanitarian convoy at the Ukrainian border is expected on Wednesday, August 13, a source told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.

The convoy of 280 trucks to southeastern Ukraine is said to be more than 3 kilometers (2 miles) long, carrying about 2,000 tons of humanitarian supplies, the source said. The aid includes 62 tons of baby food, 54 tons of medication, 12,000 sleeping bags among other things.

Earlier on, Russia addressed the humanitarian organizations in the United Nations (UN), the Organizations for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), the Council of Europe and the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) about sending a humanitarian mission to Ukraine.

Russia had suggested deploying an international humanitarian mission with Russian humanitarian aid under the auspices of the ICRC in Ukraine’s eastern regions. The ICRC showed support for Russia’s proposal.