Ukraine General

[surpher 1]

Can you tell me where the administration building is on this video?

Is it on the left out of the picture?

Yes its to the left.

[spooky lynx 73]

Was caused by one, maybe two external explosions. If you look close you can see that the wall crumbled to the inside. However the damage is very small wich speaks against a guided missile. Maybe S-5? Or S-8?

S-8. 'Armed rebels' reported another airstrike at their checkpoint near Lugansk today, noone was hurt, splinters gathered had markings of S-8 FFARs.

Particularly S-8KOM (HEAT-FRAG).

[mistyronin 1181]

I also agree, that seems an impact from an external source. But not much powerful due to the small damage, could be a rocket.

The insurgent HQ is a legit target, we could see other day how the vostok group, most aggressive of the insurgents ( formed mainly by Russian volunteers ), took the building and set AA guns and other heavy weapons.

BTW were the violent insurgents the ones who decided to hide themselves inside the towns using the civilians as shields. I don't think that the Ukrainian Army would mind to fight in an open field...

[spooky lynx 73]

OGA (administration) is functional and active city and region administration at first with full number of employees working. Civil ones. It's not plain 'insurgent HQ'. Oh and could you give some source about AA weapons placed in it?

[mistyronin 1181]

OGA (administration) is functional and active city and region administration at first with full number of employees working. Civil ones. It's not plain 'insurgent HQ'. Oh and could you give some source about AA weapons placed in it?

It didn't looked like that this weekend, it looked like a military barracks. Check this last weekend news about Ukraine in the English version of RT ( I don't remember the exact article ).

[Tonci87 163]

I also agree, that seems an impact from an external source. But not much powerful due to the small damage, could be a rocket.

The insurgent HQ is a legit target, we could see other day how the vostok group, most aggressive of the insurgents ( formed mainly by Russian volunteers ), took the building and set AA guns and other heavy weapons.

BTW were the violent insurgents the ones who decided to hide themselves inside the towns using the civilians as shields. I don't think that the Ukrainian Army would mind to fight in an open field...

I dont think that any building inside a populated town should be a legitimate target for rocket runs, They are just not precise enough. I really don't think that the pilot got the clearance to fire on it, I believe he decided on his own.

[astral4eg 10]

Video after airstrike

(violence, gore, 21+)

[spooky lynx 73]

It didn't looked like that this weekend, it looked like a military barracks. Check this last weekend news about Ukraine in the English version of RT ( I don't remember the exact article ).

It could be guarded by 'violent rebels' and fortified a bit. But still it is active working civil administration. And it was never transformed into any military or paramilitary HQ. 'Violent rebels' are not so dumb to place their HQ in such well known building that can be easily attacked by air. So that airstrike is nothing but war crime - using unguided rockets in populated area against unarmed civilians. Sure you may say something like "But in Chechnya...", yes in Chechnya the first thing to be done was establishing passageway for civilians who could leave the area before starting of battle. Here nothing had been done. Just rocket salvo from the Su-25 without any warning. None of 'violent rebels' were even hurt. Only empolyees of administration and people who walked nearby were murdered or wounded. Good start for new president...

---------- Post added at 07:14 ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 ----------

I dont think that any building inside a populated town should be a legitimate target for rocket runs, They are just not precise enough. I really don't think that the pilot got the clearance to fire on it, I believe he decided on his own.

Read the quotes of some post-maidan Ukrainian officials and you will realise that this could be order but not the will of pilot.

Edit: don't know is it true but if true - very interesting thing: 20 Israeli volunteers from Aliya batallion join South-Eastern 'violent rebels' to fight nazis. Later more volunteers can arrive. Brilliant, banderasts managed to join Russians, Jews and Chechens against them!

Edited June 3, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[vilas 474]

breaking border of Ukrainian state by militants from Russia, previous anexation of Crimea shows that Russia breaks international law

[vilas 474]

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1329,title,Kryminalny-Donieck-Konflikt-we-wschodniej-Ukrainie-sprowokuje-nowa-wojne-gangow,wid,16649663,wiadomosc.html

article about Ukraine and criminal groups

today's official bodycount in East Ukraine is 181 people dead

this article is in Polish language but i can short it to few sentences:

Ukraine is country in which mafia rules, top-rich guys, called Oligarchs or Magnats are from mafia,

there are regions in Ukraine where every day someone dies killed by gunshot from criminal wars, gang-wars or is blown up by bomb,

so generally Ukraine is country which is hard to be called European in safety of life,

if west want so much to support pro-EU tendentions in Ukraine , it must realize that not government but mafia is in rule there, life of people there is horror even without war,

now in chaos a lot of bad things happen there cause in mess criminals start to fight for future influences,

article doesn't want to say politically incorrect words, but i can bet that it is one of main reasons why those people there do not identify and do not want to live in state which is corrupted to the core

problem is future - if western leaders will do anything to make Ukrainians people life better ?

okay, let's imagine, Ukrainian army wins, integrity of country is established again like before Maidan

what will be life of those people out there ?

magnats again, mafia again,

sad

i still remember case from Ukraine, when sons of police officer raped girl and set her body on fire, they thought she is dead so they set fire on body,

but she survived , she was burned (i do not remember but she probably died in hospital later due to burn of body)

those guys were set free by police, by court etc.

this is reality of Ukrainian people ,

it is medival when noble can do anything he want, in Ukraine such nobles are businesmen (mostly from mafia, connected with goverment and polticians)

i wonder if oligarchy system will be vanished, or simply one gangster will replace other gangster, i many times claim on my country for its "justice" system, but i would not want to live in Ukraine for 200%

[mistyronin 1181]

( Kyiv Post ) Heavy fighting in eastern Ukraine as government restarts 'active phase' of anti-terror operation

Russia's Interfax news agency quoted the self-proclaimed "people's mayor" of Sloviansk, Vyacheslav Ponomarev, as saying that insurgents there downed a Ukrainian fighter jet and a helicopter.

"About half an hour ago we managed to bring down the Ukrainian army's Su-25. One helicopter, several tanks and one armored personnel carrier of the Ukrainian army were destroyed as well," Ponomarev told the news agency.

---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

( ITAR-TASS ) East Ukraine militia down fighter plane, helicopter gunship, 4 APC

To be armed insurgents "without exterior help" this people are amazing...

People’s militia in the city of Sloviansk, east Ukraine’s Donetsk Region, have downed a fighter plane Su-25 and a Ukrainian helicopter gunship as well as four armored personnel carriers (APC), Sloviansk People’s Mayor Vyacheslav Ponomarev told ITAR-TASS on Tuesday.

[vilas 474]

o be armed insurgents "without exterior help" this people are amazing...

it was aready few times said - Russian state is involved, militants with trucks full of arms cross RUssian border , they are ot stopped by Russian Border Guard, so this can be treated as activity of Russia in destabilize and try to anex other country territory,

difference between this and Crimea is that this time Ukrainian forces decided to not give up, it is clearly visible and only Russians due to nationalism do not want to see it

trucks full of arms as well as militants cross border, come from Russian territory to attack in other country, thats why Ukrainian forces now are not soft, they do not have only local minority that want independence, they have Russian agents ,

crossing border of one country with gun cannot be compared other than invasion etc.

Ukrainian border services had many "incidents" with trucks from Russian side , with Chechens and etc.

Russia under Putin is showing more and more agressive imperialistic fascist face (calling others nazis the same time)

Russian border guards should stop any truck loaded with militants and weapons - but they don't do it

problem is that states like Germany which economy is 60% export and main industry customer is Russia - try to soften NATO

but real problems have people who live there , now they gonna hate each other more than ever - this what Putin wants to raise Russian nationalism and have Russians support him even more

Edited June 3, 2014 by vilas

[ProfTournesol 956]

To be armed insurgents "without exterior help" this people are amazing...

Indeed, but who can believe this.

[exe_74rus 1]

South-east of Ukraine is a part of the Russian world. Russian world naturally protects itself. We believe that the West continues its march to the East. We do not like. We will resist it. This should not be surprised that the "rebels" have a weapon capable of shooting down airplanes and tanks burn.

[ProfTournesol 956]

South-east of Ukraine is a part of the Russian world. Russian world naturally protects itself. We believe that the West continues its march to the East. We do not like. We will resist it. This should not be surprised that the "rebels" have a weapon capable of shooting down airplanes and tanks burn.

Nope, South East of Ukraine is part of Ukraine. Russians have troubles with geography.

[spooky lynx 73]

it was aready few times said - Russian state is involved, militants with trucks full of arms cross RUssian border , they are ot stopped by Russian Border Guard, so this can be treated as activity of Russia in destabilize and try to anex other country territory,

difference between this and Crimea is that this time Ukrainian forces decided to not give up, it is clearly visible and only Russians due to nationalism do not want to see it

trucks full of arms as well as militants cross border, come from Russian territory to attack in other country, thats why Ukrainian forces now are not soft, they do not have only local minority that want independence, they have Russian agents ,

crossing border of one country with gun cannot be compared other than invasion etc.

Ukrainian border services had many "incidents" with trucks from Russian side , with Chechens and etc.

Russia under Putin is showing more and more agressive imperialistic fascist face (calling others nazis the same time)

Russian border guards should stop any truck loaded with militants and weapons - but they don't do it

problem is that states like Germany which economy is 60% export and main industry customer is Russia - try to soften NATO

but real problems have people who live there , now they gonna hate each other more than ever - this what Putin wants to raise Russian nationalism and have Russians support him even more

Let's take it as a bill for UNA-UNSO trips to Chechnya in 1994-1996 and 1999-early 2000s. Eye for an eye. Country that hadn't done anything to prevent the transferring of nationalist rebels to our territory (or even supported it), sent weapons and advicers to regimes hostile to us (and that advicers took part in the war against us) and threatened us with base in Crimea (no gas discount - no base agreement) does not deserve any respect from us.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Thanks to Russia agressive policy towards its neighbours, we're back to Cold War, that's wonderful : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27675337

[spooky lynx 73]

Sure, expanding of military block to our borders, 'color revolutions' among our neighbours and agressions towards countries friendly to Russia don't cause Cold war... It's all about bad Russkies. "We see a piece of dust in the eye of rival but don't see a log in our own".

[vilas 474]

basic problem of Russian brain is - they do not understand other nations and other countries have right to freedom - this is something they really do not understand

it is visible in philosophy , Russia occupy other nation/other country, these occupied people fight for freedom and ... Russians say about someone attacking them

[exe_74rus 1]

We have no problems with Russian geography. We are not Americans . And we know where the location . Thank god people Psak level in the Russian government is not at all .

Look at the question more broadly . Where it begins and ends with not where the Russian Federation and the Russian world . These are two different things.

Always try to answer the question: " Who benefits ? "

Who will win the war in the heart of Europe ? Not exactly the EU and Russia .

Who will benefit from the Union of Russia and China ? Certainly not the EU.

The whole conflict in Ukraine from what the U.S. bankers for the third time in a hundred years , are going to make a world war by proxy. Europeans we have already twice miilonami killing each other to make a buck plague currency. Why do we need it again?

In the EU, run smart people , they do not want and try to alleviate the situation , but the U.S. this did not mesh. U.S. unlike Russia and the EU need a war . This pro-American forces in Ukraine will not stop . They will strongly draw us all into the fray .

Why is this happening , why it should be in the U.S.? The answer is very simple. As soon as a union powers " sushi" powers " of the sea" have to fight for supremacy in earnest.

Russia as a civilization , slowly drifting toward the EU. But to enter into its composition rights "banana " republics , such as Ukraine , we do not intentionally .

[vilas 474]

yes you have problem with geography and history, not only USA has this problem,

look at Chechenya ? Chechenya wanted to be independent, Russia invaded it and now SpookyLynx says about their war against Russia ? Chechens in 1990s were defending their right to independence, than 10% of their population was killed,

look at anti-rocket system in Poland ? we wanted anti rocket system in case if mad Zhyrinovsky ever win elections, but Russia stopped USA to equip us cause Russia believes we cannot have defence system,

maybe in some weeks someone from Russia will say that Russia cannot stand that in Lithuania or Estonia they have army at all cause it is threat to Russia ?

look at what SpookyLynx says about things that happen in neigbors of Russia - why Russia is so against its neigbors to do what those neibors want on their territory ? my home, my castle, on my land i do whatever i want, but Russian philosophy doesn't understand "my home, my castle" ,

does anyone threatens Russia which is the biggest country in the world ? NO, does Russia behave like everyone threatens them even smallest countries ? YES

noone wants to attack Russia (rather sell products), but RUssia acts like everyone want to attack it, it is paranoia when you think that everyone want to attack you,

if you do not have problem with geography why 12% votes for guy who says that my country should be vanished ?

In the EU, run smart people , they do not want and try to alleviate the situation

no, EU is not run by wise people, EU is run by self-destructive cowards who look at their private profit now, they do not look at profits of future generations,

EU is run either by idiots or by saboteurs and liars,

if in EU smart people ruled, EU would not be going to self destruction (many social problems which i cannot write there due to political corectness, but there are politics in EU that will make EU collaps, big social benefits given to those who not want to work but who want to run shiria law in Europe, native Europens work and have 1 child, imigrants take benefits without any will to work and have 6 chilrdern and demand to forbid ham cause it is not halal, read yourself about Marsilia violence, read yoursel about Paris, read about London and shiria patrol and you will find out more about if EU is ruled by wise people )

the fact that Ukraine is banana republic doesn't allow to anex it's territory by other country, as well as EU soft "sanctions" only show how pathetic EU became,

EU care more about minorities than economy and family of native Europeans, i do not have my own flat (my own home) but when minority person comes, he is given a free flat from state ? i cannot have my child and my family, but he comes, he deosn't work and state give him flat and benefits, i must earn on my home, he doesn't,

in 2030, 2040 we gonna have civil war in EU for 90% , this will be war with Islam cause Muslims will than have 40-50% of population in France, UK, Spain, which want Shiria law and turn Europe into Saudi Arabia (in case of such war atheists, Catholics will stand arm in arm with Orthodox Russia), even last time you had attacks where Muslims attacked with stones people in Catholic Church in France http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/05/france-muslims-enter-church-throw-rocks-during-mass/ , in London they forced to take away pork ham from Subway cafee, in Marsilia they beaten men who was eating pork, in other countries they commit rapes and demand to be set free cause "he doesn't know that rape is crime" or pedophilia (http://sheikyermami.com/muslim-who-raped-13-year-old-uk-girl-spared-jail-because-he-didnt-know-it-was-wrong/) , etc.

so EU is not run by smart people, EU is run by selfdestructive shortsight people, that will cause milions of casualties due to their "tollerance" many people will have throat cut in 20 30 years

if EU was run by smart people, they would have poltics closer to Orban or Putin (in economy, in family care etc) and support native (as again - i will not get free flat from state, but if i was imigrant i could get, i cannot have family , he can, i pay taxes, he doent even want to work, do not call it wise)

US banksters are more smart, of course they fight too, but it is not ISSUE there, most important issue is that Russia claims itself to have right to take other countries and other nations territory < IT IS ISSUE here

even most stupid politcs of Ukraine should not be reason to anex 1 cm of Ukraine,

mistake was made by USSR, when USSR mixed nations, Ukraine should have borders with ethnic Ukrainian people majority, but you cannot turn back the time and USSR mistakes cannot be fixed by taking away Ukrainian land by Russia,

it is not that US banksters try to make war, it is Putin imperialism and nationalism,

if Ukrainians would "put to justice" Yanukovich after Maidan and Russia would not take part, all would be different, saving Yanukovitch by Russia is something VERY VERY wrong ! this criminal should be trated in Ukraine the way Ukrainians want,

Ukrainians would deal with their problems without such human costs, it is not US banksters who took Crimea, it is not US banksters who stood with arms to cut Ukrainian territory,

it is not pro-US forces who started to fire, it is pro-Putin forces who said they want to cut Ukraine in half and join Russian Federation,

and when US banksters 3 times tried to make war ? list it please ?

WW1 was fight for freedom with occupants (empires, Tsar)

WW2 was Hitler

1989 was communism collapse and USSR collapse

or maybe you say about world but not Europe ?

Edited June 4, 2014 by vilas

[spooky lynx 73]

Again I ask you, guys, if you know nothing against anti-Dudayev opposition and de-facto civil war in Chechnya during 1992-1994 please don't mix it with others. Save your face.

[Tonci87 163]

I think I agree with the guys in the comments, that had to be a WW2 AT-rifle.

[exe_74rus 1]

Who knows as Chechnya was a part of Russia?

Who knows as the Crimea was a part of Russia? And how was a part of Ukraine?

Who knows as Novorossiya (Donetsk, Lugansk) was a part of Ukraine?

Who knows as Ukraine was a part of Russia?

Who knows as California and Texas was a part of the USA?

Who knows, what the main currency of the world the dollar of U.S. Fed prints the private bank which owners in general are known to nobody?

And what this money forces to buy my country of Russian Federation as well as a set of other colonies of the USA and to put them in the western banks? As reserves? Who knows that in 1975 of U.S. Fed declared that the dollar isn't provided with anything except our belief in it and 20 aircraft carriers. And if at you not enough "democracy" that they already go to you.

Why Americans with such pleasure import revolutions but forbid to do them at itself.

Whether also it is possible to consider an equivalent exchange: the American revolutionary Trotsky who has arranged red terror in Russia and Ukraine, and the Kiev inventor Sikorsky the first constructed multiple-motor planes in Russia, but become in a consequence a name of the American helicopter engineering?

[mistyronin 1181]

Who knows as Chechnya was a part of Russia?

Who knows as the Crimea was a part of Russia? And how was a part of Ukraine?

Who knows as Novorossiya (Donetsk, Lugansk) was a part of Ukraine?

Who knows as Ukraine was a part of Russia?

Who knows as California and Texas was a part of the USA?

Who knows that most of the territory of Russia was part of Mongolia after Gengish Khan expansion? Should Mongolia invade Russia?

Who knows that most of America was Spanish? Should Spain invade it again?

Who knows that Finland was Russian, and before Swedish?

Who knows that France invaded part of Great Britain?

Who knows that Prussia was part of Germany?

Who knows that one third of the world was under British domination?

Who knows that Egypt, Iran, etc. until India was part of Greece?

Long etc.

I'm sure that following your same ridicule argument a lot of countries can start invading others, and one who has much to lose is Russia.

BTW the main currency used worldwide nowadays would be the euro, that is more expensive than the dollar. For a lot of financial exchanges is used the british pound.