Ukraine General

[jakerod 254]

New Dispatch up. Can't post due to graphic content though.

[Tonci87 163]

Yep seen, it, pretty macabre to show off dead people like that, especially after acting all insulted after beeing asked if they will show the body....

[St. Jimmy 272]

Some line holding combat footage from recent day.

So the fighting is happening near Donetsk the airport.

That's also likely a nice inspiration for some sound modders.

[mistyronin 1181]

That killing remembers a lot of the Nemtsov. Are the hands of the Kremlin that long? or there's something more behind...

(France 24) Prominent pro-Russian Ukrainian journalist killed in Kiev

Oles Buzina, 45, was known for his pro-Russian opinion pieces published in Ukraine's Sevodnya daily newspaper, which is part of the media empire of Ukraine's richest businessman Rinat Akhmetov. He ran in last year's election for a parliamentary seat for the Russian Bloc party, but was not elected.

"Today at 1320 hrs(1020 GMT) ... two unidentifiable men in masks shot journalist Oles Buzina," the ministry said in an online statement. The shooting appeared to have taken place outside his home and a team of police investigators was at the scene.

Buzina’s killing came a day after a former lawmaker loyal to ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich was killed in a similar attack at his home as he entered the premises.

(BBC) Pro-Russian journalist killed in Kiev

(The Guardian) Pro-Russia journalist shot and killed in Kiev

A Ukrainian journalist known for his pro-Russia views has been gunned down in broad daylight in Kiev a day after a pro-Russia politician was found dead.

Oles Buzyna, 45, who worked as editor-in-chief of a leading daily paper until March, was killed early on Thursday afternoon by two masked men shooting from a passing car, the Ukrainian interior ministry said in a statement.

Buzyna, who ran for a seat in parliament on the Russian Bloc ticket in 2012 and was known for his pro-Russia views, was largely perceived as more of an activist than a journalist. He had a three-month stint as the editor-in-chief of Segodnya, a newspaper owned by Ukraine’s Russia-leaning richest man, before he resigned in March citing pressure for censorship.

On Wednesday, Oleh Kalashnikov, a politician from ex-president Viktor Yanukovych’s party was found dead on the landing of his home in Kiev with a gunshot wound. Police would not immediately say whether he was murdered or killed himself.

Herashchenko called on all witnesses in the case or anyone who might have information about it to contact the police if they fear for their safety. The minister said the killings “could be†orchestrated by Russia in order to “destabilise the situation in Ukraine from withinâ€.

[oxmox 73]

And besides this Journalist you can add another dead ex-Yanukovich politician to the list....

Suicide Or Homicide? In Ukraine, Old-Guard Officials Dying Mysteriously

This year Ukraine has seen a bizarre string of deaths involving high-ranking officials, including a ex-city mayor, a former railway executive, and the former head of the state body in charge of privatization.

A total of five officials (in the meanwhile six with Melnyk 10th March) died in a single 34-day period between January 28 and February 28. In each case, the deaths have been ruled probable suicides. But the victims' political allegiances and job histories have led many in Ukraine to suspect that the men were in fact murdered:

January 26 -- Mykola Serhiyenko

The former first deputy chief of the state-run Ukrainian Railways, died in his Kyiv home after apparently shooting himself with a registered hunting rifle.

Serhiyenko, who worked with Ukrainian Railways from April 2010 to April 2014, had been appointed to the post by Mykola Azarov, the former prime minister under Viktor Yanukovych.

January 29 -- Oleksiy Kolesnyk

Former head of the Kharkiv regional government, died after apparently hanging himself.

Kolesnyk, 64, did not leave a suicide note, but media and investigators have hinted he may have killed himself, noting that his death took place on the birthday of his friend and fellow politician, former Kharkiv Governor and Party of Regions ideologue Yevhen Kushnaryov..

February 25 -- Serhiy Walter

The former mayor of the southeastern city of Melitopol, reportedly hanged himself.

A member of the Party of Regions who had served as the head of Melitopol since 2010.

Walter was forced to attend some 145 hearings during his trial, with prosecutors calling for 14 years' imprisonment. Throughout the proceedings, he insisted he was innocent. Walter was due to attend a new hearing on the day he died.

February 26 -- Oleksandr Bordyuh

One day after Walter's death, the body of the 47-year-old deputy chief of the Melitopol police, Oleksandr Bordyuh, was found in a garage.

Media reported that the cause of Bordyuh's death was ruled a "hypertensive crisis," or stroke -- a term that police frequently use in instances of suicide.

February 28 -- Mykhaylo Chechetov

ex-deputy chairman of the Party of Regions faction in Ukraine's parliament.

The death came just days after Chechetov was arrested for fraud and abuse of office stemming from his two years at the helm of the powerful State Property Fund.

March 10th -- Stanislav Melnyk

Former member of the Ukrainian parliament found dead, Party of Regions.

A former member of the Ukrainian parliament (Party of Regions) and businessman Stanislav Melnyk has been found dead in his apartment in the town of Ukrainka in the Kyiv Oblast. Early reports suggest that he had committed a suicide after shooting himself with a rifle.

The recent string of deaths comes 10 years after two more resonant cases that followed closely on the heels of the Orange Revolution. Heorhiy Kirpa, transport minister under Kuchma, was found dead in late December, 2004. His death came two days after the rerun of the second round of presidential elections that handed Yushchenko the win over Yanukovych.

The following March, Kuchma's former interior minister, Yuriy Kravchenko, died one day after being called as a witness in the resurrected case of slain journalist Heorhiy Gongadze.

Both deaths were officially ruled suicides -- even though, in Kravchenko's case, it had taken two gunshots to kill him.

http://www.rferl.org/content/suicide-homicide-ukraine-officials/26888375.html

Next politician can be added to the list and dies by suicide, from a gunshot to the neck........

Yanukovych ally Peklushenko in new Ukraine mystery death

A former regional governor has been found dead in Ukraine, the latest in a series of deaths involving allies of deposed President Viktor Yanukovych.

March 12th -- Oleksandr Peklushenko, former head of Zaporizhzhya, had suffered a gunshot wound to the neck and authorities said initial inquiries pointed to suicide. A member of Ukraine's Party of the Regions, he was being investigated over the dispersal of protesters last year.

An interior ministry source told Interfax Ukraine news agency Mr Peklushenko, 60, had committed suicide in the village of Sonyachne, near Zaporizhzhya city.

However officials said other theories were being investigated including murder.

At least six officials or ex-officials with links to Yanukovych's government have died this year in cases ruled probable suicides, but the victims' political allegiances and job histories have fueled suspicions of foul play.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31855700

http://www.rferl.org/content/former-ukraine-regional-governor-dead/26896759.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next one in the list and another suicide or murder ?

April 16th - Ex-Yanukovych MP Oleh Kalashnikov shot dead (DPA, April 16th 2015)

Kiev (dpa) - A member of the ousted Ukrainian government was found dead of gunshot wounds late Wednesday, a news report said, citing Kiev officials.

Oleh Kalashnikov, 52, was a former parliament member with ex president Viktor Yanukovych's Party of Regions, which was ousted in February 2014 amid large-scale popular protests known as the Maidan movement, after the square they occupied in Kiev.

Officials indicated Kalashnikov may have been connected with the Anti-Maidan movement that opposed the protesters, Radio Free Europe Radio Liberty reported online.

"Without doubt the deceased knew a lot about who financed Anti-Maidan and in what way," senior Interior Ministry official Anton Herashchenko was quoted as saying.

Police said an investigation has been launched.

http://www.dpa-international.com/news/international/ukrainian-opposition-politician-shot-dead-a-44931092.html

http://www.rferl.org/content/former-ukrainian-lawmaker-shot-dead-in-kyiv/26957995.html

Edited April 16, 2015 by oxmox

[Dwarden 1125]

ye, seems like someone is 'cleaning the trails' as the operation Krym was successful ...

cause for new Ukraine regime those people were more valuable as alive than dead

[.kju 3245]

Die Ukraine am Abgrund - Wie oligarchische Politik und ethnische Polarisierung die Ukraine zerreißen

http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/politik-die-ukraine-am-abgrund.1170.de.html?dram:article_id=311262

45 min audio analysis; best ive heard/read so far by a large margin

(German only but at the end as text for google translation)

[mistyronin 1181]

ye, seems like someone is 'cleaning the trails' as the operation Krym was successful ...

cause for new Ukraine regime those people were more valuable as alive than dead

That's what I'm afraid of. Like with Nemtsov...

[aleksadragutin 9]

ye, seems like someone is 'cleaning the trails' as the operation Krym was successful ...

cause for new Ukraine regime those people were more valuable as alive than dead

How do you draw that conclusion? The "autopsies" and "investigations" were conducted under the new regime.

[Rydygier 1317]

Ukraine, bloodthirsty nationalism: interview with gen. Skrzypczak

I wonder what future president of Ukraine Poroshenko builds. On the bloodthirsty nationalism? This is terrible. It has long been saying that Ukrainians should get rid of nationalism, because otherwise a collaboration with the Poland will be very difficult, in fact impossible - says general Waldemar Skrzypczak in the conversation with Magdalena Rigamonti.

It will be a war?

Why do you scare?

I? But you said that we have to support Ukraine that give them weapons, training.

But I don't say this anymore. I withdraw everything, I said about the Ukraine, on the support of the country.

A few days ago, President Komorowski spoke in the Supreme Council of Ukraine, guaranteed their friendship.

A few hours later, the Ukrainian parliament passed a law glorifying the UPA. At this point I realized that Ukraine don't care about Poland. That's what happened in Volhynia, the slaughter of 100 thousands of Poles by UPA must have at the back of the head. UPA murdered my uncle, nailing with forks to the barn door. From what I know, he was dying three days. Their savagery was beyond human imagination. Nazi Germany did not come up with what Ukrainians were doing. Chopping people with axes. Besides the killings of Poles by Ukrainians did not begin in 1943. Only in September 1939. Hardly anyone knows about it, and as anyone knows, it would not often says that when our soldiers retreated to Hungary and Romania, were attacked by armed Ukrainian gangs.

Politicians basically don't speak about this.

Because declared their support. While Ukraine shows where has our support, where has Volhynian massacre. I am not a politician. I can say what I think. You have to wait for a legal interpretation by the Polish side of this law. Our politicians in most living in illusions. Do not take any decision that could be even minimally controversial. Surely you heard that the Scandinavians get along with each other, because they begin to understand the risks posed by Russia. I say two years, we have establish relations with Finland. Nobody listens. Finland has the same problem as us. It is bordered by Russia and the army is similar to ours. I'm also talking about equipment. Polish joint mission, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, is the power and let the Russians are afraid.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Rydygier

[vilas 477]

Ukraine has problem - this problem is that they want to build ANY national consolidating feeling to unite nation , problem is that they have no cement to concrete it around anything else that their nazis :(

to cement nation in case of war - you need unify people

you either do it on historical heroes which people praise, "The Nation" if people are patriots and there is not too much minorities, religion (yes, very good to glue people together),

thats why Putin builds it = he has unification , glueing people to the country

west doesn't have it , multi culti kills it ,

in case of war what Europeans do ?

"we are attacked by Russia, we are Frenchmen, kill all who is Russian , all Frenchmen to fight for Napoleon" ?

impossible in XXI EU

it would be called "fascism, nazism, xenophobia"

but in war threat only those things can unite

there is joke meme :

http://img.wiocha.pl/images/2/8/2870c5f34be0d3386b337c00281ab725.jpg

http://kiep.pl/img43/2014/03/13/1394677598kto-cie-obroni-.jpg

http://img8.demotywatoryfb.pl//uploads/201403/1394720633_ikvk65_600.jpg

those memes say "who will defend you when Russians will come?"

this is simply harsh politically not correct truth - if you want to be STRONG , you will not be strong on other values,

only values to fight FOR your country is hate to those who want to attack it,

cause if there is no nationalism - there is no reason to defend "who cares who is governor, i care if there is Celebrity Splash, Look How They Dance, Celebrity on Ice in TV" < such things will never allow to any defence

if you want people to defend something like country - you must make people believe in it

thats why there were religions - best mind control ever, you could send milions to slaughter other milions just because of fairytale about creature on the cloud called god,

now how can we as "Europeans" defend against imperialism if we see patriotism as something odd ? what can you say to young man "take rifle, shoot any Russian you see" in case if we are attacked by Russia because Putin is imperialist ?

people who were grown in politicall correctness, tollerance ARE NOT prepared to act in war , are not prepared to fight for nation, thus they are easy to be occupied and abused,

moreover - some say that "nation" is outdated word

for Putin nation is not outdated word - he is very wise, very good politician - he knows what to do to build STRONG country

he knows how to make strenght

this is our problem - that we do not have such politicians , Ukraine is country rotten by corruption, oligarchy - it is banana-like republic , rotten inside , they look desperately to build nationalistic values to shape patriotism - which is essential to send people to front,

mind control, society control, social engineering - are of course "secrets" of governing people, but such is reality

if you have people who live "now, here" how can you make them to risk life because of "Country" ?

what is country ?

a name on the map,

a name of street,

a color of flag,

a language of document ? not even this cause there are multiple language countries

a tax collect area,

basically those things are country

now tell me - who having loving family, kid, cat, dog, property, sport car - will die for it WITHOUT nationalism, partiotism ?

NOONE (except few skinheads)

and this is a problem here , American defend gun law, property, low taxes, voting, Swiss defend wealth and refferendums, but we ? what we can defend except tradition, language, names ? for sure not our government which is our enemy (taxes, injustice, corruption, bribes, foreign corporations),

when enemy attack - your own citizens say "fuck you, i will not die for color of flag, for clerk in capitol city"

in our country - which is quite conservative as for Europe - only 25% people declare in polls readiness to fight in war for country, how much of people would kill to defend country ?

now imagine how much people would declare it in multi culti society ? what if France or Germany or Sweden is attacked by Turkey, Egypt, Algeria ? they have civil war inside,

what things we would defend with killing or dying ? property - okay, there comes Putin and say "you leave your property like before, taxes are cut by half" and what do we do ? ??? majority would say "cool, super, thanx, finally free"

the basic mistake commited by EU is killing all patriotism feelings, multiculti, politicall correcntess , the basic strenght of Russia is that Putin make it strong , as we are not Russians - it is problem for us ,

the worst thing is not lack of morality from point of view of country - the worst thing is weakness,

Ukraine is in deep shit , they desperately seek for anything that could wake up will to defend country , sadly to us, they use murderers of our grandfathers :/

Putin knows it - to catch Ukrainian territory part full of industry, oil, gas - he do all to weak up deamons of UPA - to say to everyone "look, i told you, they are nazis" and in effect to make Poland saying "fuck you Ukrainians, die you nazis"

this is politics

politics is "how to make people kill and die for you without bounty" , 100 years ago it was simple - lack of education, lack of personal wealth, religious brainwash,

what other values can be applied as glue to stick together people ?

in case of Poland - people in polls say , in case of war in our conservative society :

20% - fights

40% - emigrates

40% of rest - doesn't give a fuck, surrender,

20 % vs 80 % in conservative and religious society (as for European standards) , in EU probably 5% vs 95% while majority of Russians are nationalists (to EU standards) , in very very very very corrupted countries like Ukraine probably majority dream about getting rid of governments, oligarch, emigration - who will fight for oil/gas/coal rich areas of Ukraine ?

imagine those percents in leftist societies, in their societies army is just job ("defend democracy?" is bullshit, they fight to pay for education, health care cause they were poor, i know persons who were on ISAF missions, they wanted 5-10 times bigger wage not democracy 10 000 km from our border, why people go to defend ships against pirates ? 1000 USD daily instead of 1000 USD monthly and you can shoot some poor Africans in plastic boat (who have nothing except 50 years old AK because corporations destroyed their property of raw materials) on distance of 500 meters being hidden by 1 inch of steel plate , why not ? if you have 99.5% that you will return rich, than okay, but in case of invasion of modern Russia ?

but how much soldiers for money you can pay if Russia invades ?

who need money if he is dead ?

you can easily fight farmer in unarmed Datsun or Toyota from Arab country which has only old AK sitting in Abrams, Stryker holding joystick seein FLIR screen boom he is destroyed, you have dollars, politician calls you hero, girl make you blowjob - cool ,yeaaah ,

but you will not risk it against T90MS sitting in BMP1 just for money, when money are paid it is easy to sit in newest tank and shoot some people without armor with old AK (their AK bullet will not harm you, their RPG is too weak to burn chobban armor, the best heroes sit safely 10000 km away with joystick in hands and use drones), but it is not possible when you are in BMP1 and enemy has T90MS, than you fuck wage and give up cause deadman doesn't need money), not partiotism service ? Russia has bigger social, gun law better than we , what we or Ukrains posses to build will to defence countries ? NOTHING except rebuild patriotism

Ukrainians have either bad choice or bad choice :( it is first time they are independent, their "heroes" for us are nazi criminals compared to SS, Unit 971 brutality etc. UPA was worse than SS , SS was not cutting people by half for fun, UPA was, SS was shooting people, only Mengele was carrying tortures like Unit 971, UPA was making the same for fun, but they have nothing to build their unity and this is their biggest problem,

their country is one piece of corruption - what to defend ? rather to fight against,

Putin is wise but makes mistakes, if he would focus PR on corruption in Ukraine vs social benefits in Russia, he would have more support in Ukraine , but he acted wrong way - he shown his imperialism by annexation of Crimea, instead of focusin on cooperation with new leaders that grown on removing corrupted Yanukovitch, or wait, Yanuk was his guy, so Putin made mistake by allowing Yanuk to cross border line,

if Putin would shot down Yanuk and told Ukrainians to fight with corruption - he would be loved as well in Ukraine and eastern Ukraine would have been peacefull place cooperating with Russian industry and noone would felt scared because of Russia, but he was too greed and annexed area and send soldiers against Ukrainians, while with other behavior he could win Ukrainians sympathy, but probably such people do not know what to do to gain sympathy (because nationalism blinds eyes to see it) ;) now Putin is probably most hated person in Europe at least in our part

Edited April 17, 2015 by vilas

[.kju 3245]

Anyone has better sources for that?

A Ukrainian nationalist group has said it was behind the deaths of two public figures in Kiev earlier this week.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32361718

http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Nationalisten-bekennen-sich-zu-Morden-article14926281.html

Is there any chance to say if its done by Ukraine radicals or engineered in the interest of Russian groups?

[astral4eg 10]

Edited April 18, 2015 by astral4eg

[Sub-Human 10]

Interview with Russian mercenary in Ukraine (including videos, photos, audio):

(Russian, Svoboda) Among killers

[...] the tanks go one way, the infantry the other, there's no co-operation, no training, nothing. You think this group of animals could win the war? You know how they won last summer? Su-planes from Russia. One of the separatists, who was manning an anti-air system, told me: "I got an order, our Su's were flying in, don't open fire".

[St. Jimmy 272]

Too bad. He sounds like a real smart guy.

[vilas 477]

some of you are really not understanding situation:

- most corrupted politicians in europe are treated like victims because someone shot them for their crimes, simply there was so much crimes of Yanuk mafia, that people cannot forget it, and clean country from Yanuk mafiozos,

- Putin harms Ukraine and as result far right shows face - west moans "o my god nazis" - doing all what Putin planned ,

it is obvious that in extreme situations like invastion of one nation against other nation - far right movements grow - and you are surprised,

maybe you are surprised that sun sets , water boils at 100 'C, and water freeze below 0'C to ? 2nd rule of Newton says - when there is action, there is reaction - if Russians make problems to Ukrainians - so Ukrainians start to be more and more nationalistic - it is natural and it only means - to remove reaction, you must remove action which caused , if you want to melt water from ice - you must heat if up , is it so hard to understand ?

removing Russian actions will remove far right in Ukraine, is it so hard to understand ? if corrupted oligarchs will be punished, if corrupted politicians will get life sentence and stolen property confiscation - all will be well there,

pro-Russian side NEVER see action that cause reaction - first they attack and occupy someone , then they say "look ,rusophobia, nazis",

pro-Russians are kind of - first punch someone in face, when he punch back shout "he attacked me" - shame that some in west also do not know 2nd dynamic rule of Newton

you start to follow what Russian Intel planned to follow

Edited April 18, 2015 by vilas

[aleksadragutin 9]

some of you are really not understanding situation:

- most corrupted politicians in europe are treated like victims because someone shot them for their crimes, simply there was so much crimes of Yanuk mafia, that people cannot forget it, and clean country from Yanuk mafiozos,

- Putin harms Ukraine and as result far right shows face - west moans "o my god nazis" - doing all what Putin planned ,

it is obvious that in extreme situations like invastion of one nation against other nation - far right movements grow - and you are surprised,

maybe you are surprised that sun sets , water boils at 100 'C, and water freeze below 0'C to ? 2nd rule of Newton says - when there is action, there is reaction - if Russians make problems to Ukrainians - so Ukrainians start to be more and more nationalistic - it is natural and it only means - to remove reaction, you must remove action which caused , if you want to melt water from ice - you must heat if up , is it so hard to understand ?

removing Russian actions will remove far right in Ukraine, is it so hard to understand ? if corrupted oligarchs will be punished, if corrupted politicians will get life sentence and stolen property confiscation - all will be well there,

pro-Russian side NEVER see action that cause reaction - first they attack and occupy someone , then they say "look ,rusophobia, nazis",

pro-Russians are kind of - first punch someone in face, when he punch back shout "he attacked me" - shame that some in west also do not know 2nd dynamic rule of Newton

you start to follow what Russian Intel planned to follow

That's an over simplified view. If the so called Russian aggression is the action that provoked the rise of neo-nazis in Ukraine, please explain to me why is Russia doing this (besides that it is evil and seeks destruction of it's neighbours).

[vilas 477]

no, this is the strategy as leftists strategy with converativs, in case of provocation inside EU it is to destroy those who ara against corporations and banks, visible in tv when someone attack right-wing march, but cameras are turned off, when right side counterattack than all cameras on and zoom and shouting journalists, cause banks and corporations paid them,

in case of Russia because Putin is imperialist who want to control his neigbors,

please explain to me why is Russia doing this

rebuild Russian Empire from 1900, rebuild USSR, control most industrialized, rich in coal , gas, oil part of Ukraine, not allow Ukraine to become part of NATO/EU, not allow Ukraine to decide about themselves (imperialism)

even when yesterday i was watching Youtube movies about D-Day there were a lot of Russian internauts comments like "Europe belongs to Russia" etc.

in Russia imperialism and nationalism is on level not seen in EU, so it is simply imperialism to control Ukraine and than Baltic States,

Russia was occupant for several centuries of other countries, they do not understand other nations rights to self-decide and independence it seems, study yourself history about division of Poland, about when Finland has idependence etc.

a lot of countries neighboring Russia were occupied by Russia (in case of Poland by Russia and Germany ) for more than century

just like some people from ex-Yugoslavia say about Serbians , also they say about occupation and domination

if you not understand will of being independent - you will never understood

if you have will to dominate others - you will never understood why they hate you etc.

Russians (a lot of ) believe that "might is right" < it is primitive stone-age philosophy of domination over weaker making others hate them, even here some of them told similar stuff like "might is right" "because i am stronger, it means i can", such philosophy was also present in Hitler's Third Reich "the one who is stronger is right" "weaker must obey stronger" , it was present in all empires (including Japan in Asia)

Edited April 18, 2015 by vilas

[aleksadragutin 9]

no, this is the strategy as leftists strategy with converativs, in case of provocation inside EU it is to destroy those who ara against corporations and banks, visible in tv when someone attack right-wing march, but cameras are turned off, when right side counterattack than all cameras on and zoom and shouting journalists, cause banks and corporations paid them,

in case of Russia because Putin is imperialist who want to control his neigbors,

rebuild Russian Empire from 1900, rebuild USSR, control most industrialized, rich in coal , gas, oil part of Ukraine, not allow Ukraine to become part of NATO/EU, not allow Ukraine to decide about themselves (imperialism)

even when yesterday i was watching Youtube movies about D-Day there were a lot of Russian internauts comments like "Europe belongs to Russia" etc.

in Russia imperialism and nationalism is on level not seen in EU, so it is simply imperialism to control Ukraine and than Baltic States

No it is not simply imperialism to control Ukraine, do you think that Ukraine is deciding for itself now, it's a runaway train, the last people to control Ukraine will be Ukrainians.

Maybe your thinking was influenced by your experiences and or what you learned at school, but Russia is not just mindlessly trying to control everyone.

What do you think how would EU and NATO treat Russia if it opened up to them and let them install what ever they wish where ever they wish? If you were the head of Russia I bet you would react in exactly the same way, if not more aggressive.

[vilas 477]

Poland wanted self defence system against rockets like Patriot system, but Russia was against - how can you not call it imperialsm ?

maybe they will protest against Polish soldiers having bullet proof vests ?

of course it is imperialism and will to controll others

and what is threat of EU on Russia if EU is open-border system and certification of procuts system and some weird culture stuff ?

EU is economical cooperation system plus some politically correct shit stuff

NATO is defence cooperation against agression, if USSR was not occupying others, noone would dream about NATO,

NATO is cooperation which was built because USSR was agressive occupant, and Baltic states joined because they feel threat of Russia and Russians inside them (told here many times by people from Lithuania, Latvia how Russian minority treat them inside their own countries like calling their national language "dog language")

i read here some posts from Russian users who were saying that they have right to occupy others, force their language, orthodox church (which i reported to moderation of course)

Edited April 18, 2015 by vilas

[aleksadragutin 9]

Poland wanted self defence system against rockets like Patriot system, but Russia was against - how can you not call it imperialsm ?

maybe they will protest against Polish soldiers having bullet proof vests ?

of course it is imperialism and will to controll others

and what is threat of EU on Russia if EU is open-border system and certification of procuts system and some weird culture stuff ?

EU is economical cooperation system plus some politically correct shit stuff

NATO is defence cooperation against agression, if USSR was not occupying others, noone would dream about NATO

That is not true. EU's companies would have destroyed the Russian domestic companies and thus it's economy (that's why I think the sanctions will make Russia stronger), while NATO isn't around to defend anymore, but to assert it's own imperialistic interests.

One of the EU's politically correct shit is the freedom to protest anything, and you can't deny that right to anyone by calling it imperialism. Is it imperialistic that NATO demanded that Russia pulls back it's troops from the Ru-Ukraine border?

[vilas 477]

if you see white as black and white as black i have nothing more to say if you see 2+2=3 or 5

if someone want to NATO or EU - it is his problem - not Russian

it is FREEDOM - somthing you do not understand

[aleksadragutin 9]

if you see white as black and white as black i have nothing more to say if you see 2+2=3 or 5

if someone want to NATO or EU - it is his problem - not Russian

it is FREEDOM - somthing you do not understand

You refuse to see the bigger picture here. I don't see white as black and black as white, because there are no black and white at all, only a million shades of gray.

Your black and white view is extremely simplified.

Edited April 18, 2015 by aleksadragutin

[vilas 477]

the same is with religious people - they do not understand freedom of choice, example from Catholic family, big argument if home:

- i want sausage,

- you cant

- why the fuck

- because it is Friday, eat fish, i prepared fish,

- i do not want fish

- but it is Friday, you must eat fish,

- i want sausage, fuck your fish,

- you cannot eat sausage, you can eat sausage tommorow

- why ?

- because it is Friday and Jesus said...

i had it every fuckin week in my youth - people who do not understand freedom and want to dominate others, i feel sick seeing those who want to occupy and forbid to decide abour onself

it i Ukraine problem if they want to Nato or not, they can decide in refferendum

it is Ukrainian problem if they want to EU or not , if majority decide - minority must obey - thats how democracy works,

if majority is stupid - it is their problem in freedom people must be responsible

if people decide they want to commit suicide (or economical suicide) - it is their freedom

Edited April 18, 2015 by vilas

[aleksadragutin 9]

the same is with religious people - they do not understand freedom of choice, example from Catholic family, big argument if home:

- i want sausage,

- you cant

- why the fuck

- because it is Friday, eat fish, i prepared fish,

- i do not want fish

- but it is Friday, you must eat fish,

- i want sausage, fuck your fish,

- you cannot eat sausage, you can eat sausage tommorow

- why ?

- because it is Friday and Jesus said...

i had it every fuckin week in my youth - people who do not understand freedom and want to dominate others, i feel sick seeing those who want to occupy and forbid to decide abour onself

it i Ukraine problem if they want to Nato or not, they can decide in refferendum

it is Ukrainian problem if they want to EU or not , if majority decide - minority must obey - thats how democracy works,

if majority is stupid - it is their problem in freedom people must be responsible

if people decide they want to commit suicide - it is their freedom

You have got to be kidding me. You're just propelling one story again and again and again. Do you think such a thing in Ukraine is possible? Here minorities have greater rights than the rest because of so called EU standards.

I'm trying to explain to you why Russia is reacting in the way that it is, and why NATO is acting like it is, and you just throw everything aside and start talking about fish and sausage and religion. If you ever decide to open your eyes and mind for the sake of discussion, then maybe you'll learn something.