Ukraine General

[negah 26]

Already at the end of World War 1, Georgia claimed the territory of South Ossetia. This did lead to an uprising and to the Georgian-South Ossetia War 1918-20. Shortly afterwards the Sovjetunion did occupy whole Georgia and established the Autonomous Oblast South Ossetia.

The Autonomous South Ossetia existed until 1990 and in the same year South Ossetia decleared independence from Georgia.

In 1991-92 the so called 1st Georgia-Ossetia war did start which was no less than a sequal of the ethno-political conflict and Georgia did try to claim the territory.

In 1992 a cease fire agreement was signed.

In 2004, Micheil Saakaschwili the President of Georgia did present a plan to the UN-conference to solve the conflict and an integration of South Ossetia and Abchasia under Georgian rule. Both countries did reject the plan.

In the same year there were several shootouts between Georgia and South Ossetia, a new cease fire agreement between both countries was signed and a demilitarization of South Ossetia.

In 2006 the USA requested russia to support South Ossetia government no longer.

In 2006 elections were hold about the question of independance from Georgia, which more than 90% did vote for. In parts of the occupied areas by Georgia, elecitons were hold aswell and more than 90% voted for a Federation.

In 2007 Georgia established a provisory administration of South Ossetia for the controlled areas.

Just some parts of the infos before it did lead to the conflict in 2008, you will find more infos on wikipedia and also about the role of russia.....I will try to find later a link about the EU investigations in 2009.

edit: its not about an "EU court" but an "EU report"...in my langauge both words are similar, was a missread. I think you will find this with google or on wikipedia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/6247620/EU-blames-Georgia-for-starting-war-with-Russia.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/30/georgia-attacks-unjustifiable-eu

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217265/Georgia-started-war-Russia-Moscow-reacted-says-EU-report.html

No no no, all lies and russian propaganda written by Putin himself.

How dare you post such heresy in this forum.

All hail our governments and mass media, the only beacons of truth in these dark times where little russian green men are hiding behind each tree and bush.

ye, people get rid from one corrupted thief and suddenly east was angry

And what did they got? An oligarch as a president. Was most likely the reason why still many people stayed at maidan after Yanukovichs ousting.

But without those radical right sector and svoboda guys and some shadowy support those people couldnt move anything and were finally driven out. Not surprisingly our media did say almost nothing about it.

Oh and a boxer (a guy who gets beaten on his head many times) is now the mayor of Kiev. Awesome.

Edited August 22, 2014 by negah

[sudayev 27]

Remembrance of Victims of Stalinism and Nazism banned in Simferopol

http://khpg.org.ua/en/index.php?id=1408454954

http://qha.com.ua/krimskie-tatari-ne-budut-provodit-miting-23-avgusta-izza-zapreta-139261.html

This day is an important day for tartar community in Crimea, where they their respects to persecuted by totalitarian regimes. Russian authorities have said NO to tartar gathering, because of ... sunstroke they might get.

This is not the first time since Russia occupied the Crimea that remembrance meetings have been banned. Two days before the seventieth anniversary of the Deportation of the Crimean Tatar People, the authorities banned all public events in the Crimea.

Refat Chubarov , head of the Mejlis said then

Can you imagine – there are 22 regions and in each region there are places where people come to honour the dead, places with memorial stones, and Crimean Tatars on May 17-18 don’t have the right to go there together to pay their respects, to honour those people! I don’t know what kind of person you have to be to not think of the consequences! I don’t know how to stop people so that they don’t go there. It’s like telling everybody “Don’t go to your holy places, don’t visit your dead†If they prohibited you, how would you act? Force can stop everything, or not everything – it won’t stop the human spirit.â€

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

Negah,insted off attacking mayby add something worth insted of blaming every thing and every body?! :p keep it cool! nobody here can do anything about it! show your side and idea's and we will discuss them but dont just attack anyone for showing a side of this crappy shitty story that we all know is crap but we cant do anything about it. but atleast we all are more awake than some ppl on our streets! ;)

[beastcat 14]

And what did they got? An oligarch as a president. Was most likely the reason why still many people stayed at maidan after Yanukovichs ousting.

So what? The point of the Maidan was not to get some poor worker who only knows how to push around boxes as president, it was to remove Yanukovich and establish a proper government with people who actually represent the people and know what they are doing.

But without those radical right sector and svoboda guys and some shadowy support those people couldnt move anything and were finally driven out. Not surprisingly our media did say almost nothing about it.

And who told you that? Russian media? There were about two million people standing on the streets simultaneously, but sure, they can't do crap without some small organisation of retarded nationalists who have less members than the ku klux klan today and who got 0,8% of the votes during elections.

Censor - 8 Russian Paratroopers of the 76th Division from Pskov in Critical Condition at Luhansk Hospital

8 Russian paratroopers of the 76th Division from Pskov are now hospitalized in critical condition at the regional hospital of Luhansk.

This was stated by journalist Anastasiia Stanko on her Twitter account, Censor.NET reports.

"8 paratroopers from Pskov are in serious condition at the regional hospital of Luhansk, non-transportable. 30 sent to hospital in Rostov. They don't know what they were doing here," Stanko wrote.

"It's strange when people say there was no Russian military convoy and - so where did the wounded and killed paratroopers of the 76 division from Pskov come from?" the journalist adds.

That is actually the entire article, so yeah...

Edited August 22, 2014 by beastcat

[maturin 12]

It's amusing that people don't think Putin is an oligarch. He's one of the richest people on the planet, and never once in his life sold a good or service to anyone.

[beastcat 14]

RosBusinessConsulting (RU) - NATO has raised 16 fighter jets to intercept two Russian Tu-95

[negah 26]

Negah,insted off attacking mayby add something worth insted of blaming every thing and every body?! :p keep it cool! nobody here can do anything about it! show your side and idea's and we will discuss them but dont just attack anyone for showing a side of this crappy shitty story that we all know is crap but we cant do anything about it. but atleast we all are more awake than some ppl on our streets! ;)

Basically I was agreeing with oxmox and was not attacking him.

But as it seems you cant be sarcastic without making it obvious with 100 smileys.

[Dwarden 1125]

irony

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conflict_(1918%E2%80%9320)#Aftermath

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

familiar results especially when you look on the 'expanded' occupied territory by the 'red' forces :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war#mediaviewer/File:2008_South_Ossetia_war_en.svg

claiming that Georgia don't support e.g. federal states with autonomies is non-sense by default as there always was at least one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjara

familiar story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993)

both wards displaced about quarter million Georgian people, you can imagine what impact it has on country with 4.5 to 5 million people ...

(in short each 10th person lost his home)

from the military standpoint, the 2008 war result is obvious, the Georgia is nearly cut into half by wedge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conflict#mediaviewer/File:Georgia_high_detail_map.png

with Capital City on mercy aka range of rocket and heavy artillery ...

also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_territories_of_Georgia#Russian_border_operations

is more likely to repeat in Ukraine

Edited August 22, 2014 by Dwarden

[oxmox 73]

It's amusing that people don't think Putin is an oligarch. He's one of the richest people on the planet, and never once in his life sold a good or service to anyone.

Putin is not really an Industrial and therefore "Oligarch". But, I believe aswell that there is probably some kind of favouritism and corruption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_oligarch

---------- Post added at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

irony

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conflict_(1918%E2%80%9320)#Aftermath

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

familiar results especially when you look on the 'expanded' occupied territory by the 'red' forces :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war#mediaviewer/File:2008_South_Ossetia_war_en.svg

claiming that Georgia don't support e.g. federal states with autonomies is non-sense by default as there always was at least one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjara

familiar story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993)

both wards displaced about quarter million Georgian people, you can imagine what impact it has on country with 4.5 to 5 million people ...

(in short each 10th person lost his home)

from the military standpoint, the 2008 war result is obvious, the Georgia is nearly cut into half by wedge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conflict#mediaviewer/File:Georgia_high_detail_map.png

with Capital City on mercy aka range of rocket and heavy artillery ...

also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_territories_of_Georgia#Russian_border_operations

is more likely to repeat in Ukraine

Well, all the hand written infos i posted are from wikipedia aswell...

Edited August 22, 2014 by oxmox

[surpher 1]

(NATO) General Breedlove: Russian Convoys Illegal Border Crossing Reveals Ulterior Motives

"Legitimate humanitarian aid should not be forcibly smuggled across international borders without consent and without the involvement of international aid agencies," said General Breedlove. "The humanitarian situation in Eastern Ukraine must be addressed, but not in a spurious manner that risks further inflaming the conflict,â€

[Dwarden 1125]

Putin is not really an Industrial and therefore "Oligarch". But, I believe aswell that there is probably some kind of favouritism and corruption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_oligarch

---------- Post added at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

Well, all the hand written infos i posted are from wikipedia aswell...

well IMHO the actual military Russia goal is to conquer the part of east and south Ukraine down to the Crimea passing ...

(cause to save huge expenses needed to build that Russia - Crimea road/train bridge accompanied with with gas, oil, water, electricity pipes)

[Tonci87 163]

Does anybody else think that this whole situation is kind of similiar to the Harvest Red Background story?

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Ukraine crisis: Lithuania envoy killed in Luhansk

Lithuania's Foreign Minister Linas Linkevicius tweeted with "deep sorrow" that "Mr Mykola Zelenec kidnapped & brutally killed by terrorists there".

[Dwarden 1125]

Does anybody else think that this whole situation is kind of similiar to the Harvest Red Background story?

nope, but it fits well into HOI4 mod scenario ;)

[negah 26]

Does anybody else think that this whole situation is kind of similiar to the Harvest Red Background story?

nope, but it fits well into HOI4 mod scenario

There is a new Combat Mission in the making about NATO+Ukraine vs Russia conflict in the Ukraine. It was planned and started far before the actual conflict started (kind of similar as with Combat Mission Shock Force focusing on Syria).

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113978

Edited August 23, 2014 by negah

[surpher 1]

(Al Jazreera) Russian aid trucks begin leaving Ukraine

An observer for the OSCE, the European rights and security organisation based in Vienna, told AFP news agency that some of the white lorries had returned to Russia but could not specify how many were still inside Ukraine.

A Reuters news agency journalist at the Donetsk-Izvarino border crossing, where the convoy rolled into Ukraine a day ago, said about 10 trucks had passed back into Russia and more could be seen in the distance arriving at the crossing.

[Tonci87 163]

The question is: Did they arrive empty?

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Ukrainska-RBNiO-rosyjski-konwoj-wywozi-ukrainskie-maszyny-przemyslowe,wid,16833095,wiadomosc.html

according to Polish press, Russians steal from Ukraine machines

convoy leaves Ukraine but according to journalist, inside those (as we know previously photos) half-empty trucks which arrived, now Russians ... take Ukrainian industry machines located in the east, journalists claim that they put to trucks equipment from manufactory producing radar system (this company was located in the eastern ukraine, in region controlled by separatists, cause as we know, all Ukrainian industry is located in Eastern part of which rebels fight)

'

in Doneck there is factory "Topaz" producing "Kolchuga" radar systems used by Russian army , previously Ukraine was EXPORTING those stuff to Russian Army, now journalists say Russians steal this company to take to Russia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolchuga_passive_sensor

if this is true, than goal of this operation (we here were surprised that those trucks were reported be half-empty) was to steal Ukrainian industry technology important to Russian Army (German industry knows it the best in 1945-1946)

Edited August 23, 2014 by vilas

[Dwarden 1125]

note: Kolchuga is passive sensor system, that's very high importance technology ... (something similar to our Tamara)

it's also considered to be one of the best in this category (500 to 1000km range)

[Tonci87 163]

And suddenly you know why there were a lot of empty trucks in the convoy....

[Rydygier 1317]

Russian Army (German industry knows it the best in 1945-1946)

Robbery seems, amongst other "goodies", their old tradition known also in "liberated" Poland.

Russia... Nihil novi.

[sudayev 27]

Taking the machinery back to motherland. Hehe, history likes to repeat itself. In my region known for production of cement, all cement plants were plundered ekhm...ekhemmm... "liberated" from machinery, soviets they also liberated railroad tracks leading to plants. People had to start from scratch because the only things the soviets left for them - were revolutionary slogans written on the wall.

Nevertheless they were taking everything. Farming equipment, tools, livestock, grain supplies, household items, bicycles, watches (the more the better) electrical wiring, chemicals....

[vilas 477]

i only know that price of tonne of coal was 15 times cheaper for USSR and Poland "exported" coal and other raw materials to USSR on prices like 1 dollar per tonne before 1989

my uncle was director in company ZWUT, which was producing telephone equipment for many countries, afaik telephones produced to USSR also "costed" similar , so we worked from our taxes for Soviets to have cheap things

[ProfTournesol 956]

This story about the convoy coming back with stolen things doesn't seem very believable IMHO.

[sudayev 27]

i only know that price of tonne of coal was 15 times cheaper for USSR and Poland "exported" coal and other raw materials to USSR on prices like 1 dollar per tonne before 1989

my uncle was director in company ZWUT, which was producing telephone equipment for many countries, afaik telephones produced to USSR also "costed" similar , so we worked from our taxes for Soviets to have cheap things

Yeah, it was all under the framework of COMECON (RWPG in Polish) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comecon an eastern counterpart to EEC (EU)