Ukraine General

[Tonci87 163]

I received a informative PM from ArtTem who is still banned (that wouldn´t have happened if you would have sticked to such informative posts) but seems to be reading the thread.

1809 tons of cargo

262 trucks used in operation

198 from 262 is carry cargo

sault - 30 tons

tea - 0,8 tons

medicine - 54 tons

meat conserves - 340 tons

milk - 60 tons

grits - 400 tons

sugar - 100 tons

childfood - 62,4

water - 679,5

sleeping bag - 12300 pieces

mobile diesel generators - 60 pieces

Crago divided to portions. Each car have a self number on window. And you have a payload list for each car. So you can easely deliver each pack of help in place there it needed without unload/reload/remix of cargo. You just send a car (for example 130 and 154) to place where that individual cargo is needed.

OK, so there are 64 empty Trucks? I can understand the need to take a few empty trucks so that you have spares if some break down but 64 is a bit much. It is even more bizzare to have them haul empty trailers through the countryside instead of driving without one.

The last part about portions makes sense, but aren´t all those trucks headed to the same place anyway? I need more information on this but it still seems as if Russia is sending much more trucks than needed.

[beastcat 14]

Each car have a self number on window.

Oh, that explaines a weird thing I have noticed in many photos. In quite a few pictures they marked the windshield, where there was nothing (Last page for an example), because the number was missing. So here is a theory: The trucks that are in Rostov dont have numbers, the ones in Belgorod do. So there may actually be much more trucks than we thought.

[aleksadragutin 9]

I received a informative PM from ArtTem who is still banned (that wouldn´t have happened if you would have sticked to such informative posts) but seems to be reading the thread.

OK, so there are 64 empty Trucks? I can understand the need to take a few empty trucks so that you have spares if some break down but 64 is a bit much. It is even more bizzare to have them haul empty trailers through the countryside instead of driving without one.

The last part about portions makes sense, but aren´t all those trucks headed to the same place anyway? I need more information on this but it still seems as if Russia is sending much more trucks than needed.

May be they will transport stuff (possibly injured people) to Russia or transport resources inside endangered area.

[mistyronin 1181]

May be they will transport stuff (possibly injured people) to Russia or transport resources inside endangered area.

According to the ICRC the trucks will return empty.

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ----------

BTW the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs has issued a complain about "possible threats" to the humanitarian convoy:

( MID, in Russian ) Statement of the MFA of Russia in connection with the attempts to disrupt the delivery of humanitarian assistance to the affected areas of the fighting in South-East of Ukraine

[ProfTournesol 956]

Quoting the BBC :

Ukraine says it has partially destroyed an armoured column crossing from Russia, as a controversial Russian aid convoy still waits at the border.

Nato said the column was a military "incursion", prompting the UK to summon Russia's envoy to explain.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said: "We see a continuous flow of weapons and fighters from Russia into eastern Ukraine, and it is a clear demonstration of continued Russian involvement in [its] destabilisation."

Russia's defence ministry said the incursion reports were "some kind of fantasy".

It said: "There was no Russian military column that crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border either at night or during the day."

Everybody is playing with words : No "Russian military column" doesn't mean no military column crossed the border.

[Tonci87 163]

It was just on the news that the Ukrainian army engaged and partly destroyed a Russian military convoi that crossed into Ukraine yesterday. Does anybody have more info on that?

[mistyronin 1181]

It was just on the news that the Ukrainian army engaged and partly destroyed a Russian military convoi that crossed into Ukraine yesterday. Does anybody have more info on that?

I don't know but if the Ukrainian Army destroyed Russian Army units, I guess that it would be in the front page of all the Russian media, and the Kremlin would be already authorizing a "revenge" operation.

[surpher 1]

Well yes, as I said, the photos are of course not 100% proof, you can take it as you want.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEeQhiCYAAXu3K.jpg

Here the sign says "customs control zone" or however its called in english, so it has to be pretty much next to the border.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEeOi-CQAAA6UR.jpg

Here we see a building with a blue roof.

Here we have multiple buildings with blue roofs next to the border: 48°17'37.56"С 39°54'51.25"В

The buildings are on the left, so they must be heading to the border.

Of course they may just park on the parking space, but that would be strange.

Of course I may be completely wrong, but yeah, thats still kinda the most likely thing.

The location of the Buk vans has been posted by surpher.

It is of course not 100% proof, they can just stop a meter before the border and we wont be able to say anything, but for me the intentions are pretty clear.

Right now pictures exist of the peacekeeper BTRs that were supposedly taken on ukrainian territory next to the border, but those are not confirmed, so Ill keep a look on that.

Pictures are from the same location as the Buks.

This video from June is just to the south of that junction.

Location

Comparison between tanks in the convoy & those spotted in Ukraine in the following days.

[Tonci87 163]

Or the Russians would deny that such a convoi ever existed because they don´t want to admit that it was inside Ukrainian territory. I´m waiting for pictures.

[beastcat 14]

It was just on the news that the Ukrainian army engaged and partly destroyed a Russian military convoi that crossed into Ukraine yesterday. Does anybody have more info on that?

Ukrainskaya Pravda - Poroshenko: Part of the russian military vehicles that crossed the border last night has been destroyed

Post is too short ):

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:40 ----------

I don't know but if the Ukrainian Army destroyed Russian Army units, I guess that it would be in the front page of all the Russian media, and the Kremlin would be already authorizing a "revenge" operation.

Or they will just go "Those are not our guys, what are you talking about?" like they always do.

Edit: Oh look, they did

ITAR-TASS - FSB: The russian military did not cross the border

Edited August 15, 2014 by beastcat

[MissionCreep 12]

Or the Russians would deny that such a convoi ever existed because they don´t want to admit that it was inside Ukrainian territory. I´m waiting for pictures.

If it was in fact an armoured convoy and it did cross the border, it could have been pro-Russia rebels (or their supporters) infiltrating across the border. They may have misjudged the location or determination of the Ukr forces, or believed they would have received support (from either or both sides of the border) that never materialized.

[beastcat 14]

The OSAs that have been seen earlier near the russian border now apparently arrived in Donetsk

Atlantic Council - NATO Chief Confirms 'Russian Incursion' into Ukraine

Edited August 15, 2014 by beastcat

[maturin 12]

Sa-8s, really? If those pictures are real, the fiction of Russia's non-involvement should be absolutely over now. There is exactly ZERO chance, in any conceivable parallel universe, that the rebels still control any Ukrainian stockpiles of weaponry that they have not already looted.

I'd like to hear any pro-Russian commenters in this thread admit that fact.

[surpher 1]

(BellingCat - Case Study) How to Locate a “Secret†Pro-Russian Training Camp

[beastcat 14]

Sa-8s, really? If those pictures are real, the fiction of Russia's non-involvement should be absolutely over now. There is exactly ZERO chance, in any conceivable parallel universe, that the rebels still control any Ukrainian stockpiles of weaponry that they have not already looted.

I'd like to hear any pro-Russian commenters in this thread admit that fact.

Its in service since 1971, so they will probably go "They bought it in a local hunting shop" again.

Photo of one of the Smerch rockets I spoke about a bit earlier

Kinda semi confirmed maybe?

Edited August 15, 2014 by beastcat

[sudayev 27]

(BellingCat - Case Study) How to Locate a “Secret†Pro-Russian Training Camp

Interesting. Fact is such camps are active from mid 2000's. Someone in this thread posted link with photos from such a camp, where at the photo from 2007 there was a group of man with weapons and DPR flag. They have been preparing for this since ages.

[vilas 477]

of course

i told that Polish security adivsor to previous President prepared in 2011 (March 2011) warning about... he prescribed all what happened in 2014

this guy prescribed current scenario in 2011 that "there will be death of president of Ukraine and Russia will take Crimea and try to take Ukrainian industrial area" - but in 2011 this advisor was treated like "right-wing xenophobic conspiracy theory guy"

taking Crimea was discussed by Polish intel to Polish president in 2011 , noone wanted to listen, cause our gov . is leftiests

also destabilization of industrial part of Ukraine - we must remember guys, that Eastern Ukraine is not only "Russian minority" (30-40%) but also WHOLE BIG INDUSTRY

without East - Ukraine is just farmer country, Ukrainian economy is EAST (where Russians are 30-40% , so also we must remember that those voices to add this part to Russia represent at best 30% not 70%)

Edited August 15, 2014 by vilas

[sudayev 27]

Ukraine crisis: BBC finds Russian aid trucks 'almost empty'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28799627 (video)

[vilas 477]

maybe purpose of those trucks was to remove something back - not to bring something IN

or purpose of those trucks was - to be attacked by "Ukrainian army"

[oxmox 73]

Ukraine crisis: BBC finds Russian aid trucks 'almost empty'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28799627 (video)

Hey all.

This is strange, but maybe this will be explained.

When it comes to the russian convoy destroyed by Ukraine military, I wonder why they dont show any video footage or images, this in a time where so many have smartphones/cellphones around. Its a crazy situation that the Ukraine claims such a convoy was destroyed and the russian foreign ministry argues they were shooting "phantoms".

At the moment there is too much propaganda in the russian, ukranian and western media.

Edited August 15, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

maybe purpose of those trucks was to remove something back - not to bring something IN

or purpose of those trucks was - to be attacked by "Ukrainian army"

The former would be the standard manoeuvre.

[MissionCreep 12]

Hey all.

This is strange, but maybe this will be explained.

When it comes to the russian convoy destroyed by Ukraine military, I wonder why they dont show any video footage or images, this in a time where so many have smartphones/cellphones around. Its a crazy situation that the Ukraine claims such a convoy was destroyed and the russian foreign ministry argues they were shooting "phantoms".

At the moment there is too much propaganda in the russian, ukranian and western media.

Agree ... until there are at least pictures, can't really be taken seriously. You would think there would probably be some prisoners as well which would be reported. (I am aware that making public the filming or photographing prisoners is against Article 13 of the Third Geneva Convention - "Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity" )

[maturin 12]

Photo of one of the Smerch rockets I spoke about a bit earlier

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvDxUohIQAAuV_m.jpg

Kinda semi confirmed maybe?

Confirmed for what? Don't both sides use Smerch?

There is another dud sticking out of the ground in Torez or Snezhnoe.

[JdB 151]

Confirmed for what? Don't both sides use Smerch?

Two measurements that would be really interesting in this case are the angle to the ground that the rocket is in and the direction it came from (a simple compass reading). That would enable tracing it back to it's point of origin within a reasonable margin of error. I doubt the Russians station their artillery units right next to the border so even a 2-3km margin wouldn't invalidate the calculations.

[maturin 12]

You could estimate a rough azimuth of fire from the shadows in the picture. But unless you arrive at a heading of due east or due west it proves nothing, because the border zig-zags so much.