Ukraine General

[MissionCreep 12]

I'd rather not fight them if I was Ukraine. I'd try to do everything wisely to avoid any excuse and try to look for international support to deter the imperialistic aspirations of Putin.

Russia would crush Ukraine in any conventional war by force of numbers and arms ... also, the open, flat terrain of the Ukraine is highly unsuited to tactics of asymmetric warfare. There is nowhere to hide, except possibly urban areas, which can be easily surrounded and cut off from their flat, open surroundings by a superior force.

Edited August 10, 2014 by MissionCreep

[beastcat 14]

Golos Ameriki (Voice of America) - Kiev has rejected the terrorrist's proposal of a ceasefire - they can only give up their weapons and surrender [Google Translate]

[JdB 151]

I'd rather not fight them if I was Ukraine. I'd try to do everything wisely to avoid any excuse and try to look for international support to deter the imperialistic aspirations of Putin.

That assumes that Ukraine can take certain steps to avoid a Russian invasion. There is nothing that Ukraine can do to prevent it, as Russia's objective is to break up Ukraine and Ukraine's objective is to keep the country together. There is no way for either side to compromise because it would either mean the end of Ukraine or an immense loss of face for Putin. As history has shown Putin never backs down. Imo this invasion is inevitable unless international pressure can make it too costly to Putin's regime and give him an excuse to the Russians for not going in.

[beastcat 14]

Ukrainian Village of Stepanivka, destroyed after Grad shelling from russia

Another captured russian tank

Russian artillery firing at Ukraine

http://youtu.be/RujhgxTS8o0

Edited August 11, 2014 by beastcat

[sudayev 27]

Take a look...

This image comes from this article from polish portal. It's about surrendered terrorists in Donetsk and Ukrainians ready to finish them off.

http://fakty.interia.pl/raport-zamieszki-na-ukrainie/aktualnosci/news-rmf24-atak-na-donieck-nastapi-lada-moment,nId,1483366#iwa_item=1&iwa_img=1&iwa_hash=31351&iwa_block=newsOfTheDay

But my question is this IS-3 tank? Are these still in use by the Ukrainian land forces (maybe reserve)?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Sudayev

[surpher 1]

But my question is this IS-3 tank? Are these still in use by the Ukrainian land forces (maybe reserve)?

Could be this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhGLJ5OnYZ0

Ukraine Separatists Try To Crank Up WWII Tank

[beastcat 14]

Take a look...

http://i.iplsc.com/sytuacja-w-doniecku-jest-coraz-bardziej-napieta/0003FTG3PDSUX73T-C116-F4.jpg

This image comes from this article from polish portal. It's about surrendered terrorists in Donetsk and Ukrainians ready to finish them off.

http://fakty.interia.pl/raport-zamieszki-na-ukrainie/aktualnosci/news-rmf24-atak-na-donieck-nastapi-lada-moment,nId,1483366#iwa_item=1&iwa_img=1&iwa_hash=31351&iwa_block=newsOfTheDay

But my question is this IS-3 tank? Are these still in use by the Ukrainian land forces (maybe reserve)?

No. There might be some standing around in some museums and on display. There are many tanks who are standing around on display in cities in Ukraine and other former soviet states. The IS-3 the separatists used was stolen from display, somehow repaired and made functional again. It was later recaptured and set back for display.

Here is the tank before it was captured:

http://puu.sh/aNRgy/a7803e3969.jpg (282 kB)

Here are the exact coordinates of the tank:

48°25'26.14"N, 37°39'48.49"E

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:24 ----------

Could be this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhGLJ5OnYZ0

Ukraine Separatists Try To Crank Up WWII Tank

Yeah, looks like it is indeed this one.

Edited August 11, 2014 by beastcat

[sudayev 27]

Thanks for clarification. Not the first time, someone decided to use a monument tank. During anti govt protests in Hungary 2006 crowd managed to start T34 which was used to ram though barricades;

I'm amazed how these tanks easily crank up after many years of immobility without any service.

[[evo] dan 79]

Perhaps its the T-10? The last of the IS series to be in service as I recall

[mistyronin 1181]

( Voice of Russia ) Putin sends humanitarian convoy into Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin has told the President of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, that Russia, working together with International Red Cross officials, is sending a humanitarian convoy to Ukraine.

[aleksadragutin 9]

And so it begins.

[surpher 1]

(The Guardian) Russia to send humanitarian convoy into Ukraine in spite of warnings

Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told the Guardian the convoy would not include any armed personnel or soldiers.

"It is being sent under the aegis of the Red Cross and with the agreement of Kiev," Peskov said, adding that the convoy would likely depart this week

[mistyronin 1181]

And so it begins.

Hopefully not.

BTW we have official confirmation:

( Kremlin ) Telephone conversation with President of the European Commission Jose Manuel Barroso

The President noted that Russia, working together with International Red Cross officials, is sending a humanitarian convoy to Ukraine.

[sudayev 27]

Russia calls Ukrainians fascists, nazis sometimes forgetting who's doing them a favor in Donbas. Pro-russian terrorists recognized as neonazis in their previous role.

http://espreso.tv/article/2014/08/11/pro_rashystiv_antyfashystiv_na_donbasi

[beastcat 14]

Well, it was fun knowing you all. Enjoy life as much as you can before the nukes start dropping.

[surpher 1]

(ICRC) Statement - Ukraine: Civilians in eastern Ukraine are in urgent need of assistance

[beastcat 14]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bux37r8CYAAXcYG.png (531 kB)

This is how the "humanitarian aid" looks like. Don't worry, its just 300 trucks full of god knows what, ammunition, explosives and weapons.

Reuters - NATO chief sees "high probability" of Russian intervention in east Ukraine

The Straits Times - Ukraine says Russia has massed 45,000 troops on joint border

Some more humanitarian aid:

The "humanitarian" aid includes Radar Systems:

This is the radar that is supposed to accompany this thing:

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

Humanitarian tanks

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuySHyJCcAAq7-n.png (345 kB)

Inforesist - The DPR terrorists say, that they prepared more than 200 armored vehicles for a counter-offensive in Donetsk [Too lazy for a google translate link]

Edited August 11, 2014 by beastcat

[sudayev 27]

Something tells me that "humanitarian aid" won't leave that easily

[maturin 12]

beastcat, we don't need a pro-Ukrainian version of Spooky Lynx.

You can't put an S-300 on a civilian truck with a tarp on it, and the convoy is going to be monitored. For once, the Americans will be watching by satellite, and if any military vehicles enter Ukraine with the convoy, we will know.

[beastcat 14]

beastcat, we don't need a pro-Ukrainian version of Spooky Lynx.

You can't put an S-300 on a civilian truck with a tarp on it, and the convoy is going to be monitored. For once, the Americans will be watching by satellite, and if any military vehicles enter Ukraine with the convoy, we will know.

I did not say an S-300 was on the truck. I have shown you the radar and what its made for. I understand I'm very pro-ukrainian, but you have to understand my distrust. A humanitarian mission, so sudden, even though Russia has been warned and asked not to do it? A "humanitarian" mission by russia? Even if everything is monitored, even if the USA is watching, even if it knows already (which it probably does, if there is anything to know), what will they do? They will say "Oh, Russia, please don't do that" once again, followed by some sanctions. Will that change russias course of action? Has it ever?

[sudayev 27]

This so called "humanitarian aid" mission is one big farce. All of these trucks are painted in rush military Kamaz http://avto-nomer.ru/nomerb291824 (green Kamaz spoted a few days ago, same Kamaz days later)

And why the hell they are white? When Russia sends aid they use vehicles bearing colors and symbols of their "ministry of emergency".

Anyways... I was watching news today and all the personnel looks like some military types dressed in civilian overalls and cars were painted very unprofessionally without using canvas to mask dark elements. Convoy is accompanied by engineering trucks, heavy equipment and powerful radar. How the hell we supposed to know there aren't any military supplies hidden inside? What this "maskirovka" is all about?

In my opinion this mission will be chronic and drawn-out which means the aid wont leave that easily or according to regime news one of the aid group will be ambushed destroyed by Ukrainians (they will sacrifice some vehicles to portray the fact) and it will be an excuse for russian military step in with force Putin just amassed along the border and say goodbye to Ukraine, Donbas.

[vilas 477]

i would say , first heads to fall in case when Russia came into Ukraine should be those who signed treaty and guaranteed Ukraine safety for liquidation of nuclear weapons

but about those trucks - i do no want to defend Putin, but... if humanitarian aid such as food is being send by Russian government, than it is natural that truck can be property of Russian gov. so it can be army truck, but repainted,

but trucks should be searched if there is no arms inside, food and medical supply should be given but not arms

[mistyronin 1181]

but about those trucks - i do no want to defend Putin, but... if humanitarian aid such as food is being send by Russian government, than it is natural that truck can be property of Russian gov. so it can be army truck, but repainted,

Agree. That would be the logical thing to do, repaint army trucks in white.

But theoretically all that aid has to be controlled by the ICRC, and to this moment that hasn't happened.

( ICRC ) Ukraine: Civilians in eastern Ukraine are in urgent need of assistance

[negah 26]

i would say , first heads to fall in case when Russia came into Ukraine should be those who signed treaty and guaranteed Ukraine safety for liquidation of nuclear weapons

but about those trucks - i do no want to defend Putin, but... if humanitarian aid such as food is being send by Russian government, than it is natural that truck can be property of Russian gov. so it can be army truck, but repainted,

but trucks should be searched if there is no arms inside, food and medical supply should be given but not arms

As Ive read in news, the humanitarian aid was agreed between russian, ukrainian, us and eu autorities.

It will be superwised by Red Cross and the trucks will pass through appointed checkpoints into ukraine.

My guess is there will be offcials from all sides at that checkpoints, otherwise ukrainian politicians would already scream (similarly to what beastcat is already doing) in all newspapers about russian tanks, warships, nuclear bombs, younameit, hidden in those trucks.

Besides it is usual practice to utilize military when sending humanitarian aid somewhere as military has the required logistics.

[mistyronin 1181]

As Ive read in news, the humanitarian aid was agreed between russian, ukrainian, us and eu autorities.

It will be superwised by Red Cross and the trucks will pass through appointed checkpoints into ukraine.

That's not confirmed. For the moment the only one that has "agreed" to this "humanitarian run" is Russia. Ukraine, US, EU and the ICRC are still pending.