Ukraine General

[ProfTournesol 956]

( The Moscow Times ) Putin Bans the F-Word From Movies, Plays

Wonderful. But "Putin" is a strong word per se :icon_mrgreen:

[spooky lynx 73]

i wonder how is with investigation about maidan killings (bullets can identify barrel of rifle) so by bullets taken from bodies barrel can be identified and than identify from how much guns bullets that killed people were shot, cause so far i do not know what bullets killed people there, 5.45 from AK74S that police had or 7.62 from SVD or other, on one movie Police even had PKM

Nothing is done in this way, despite the results of such investigation, if they prove the involvement of former government, would be like jackpot for current junta. But still nothing is done to investigate. BTW if you watch YT videos now, take a look at one depicting current head of president administration Pashinsky, when he went to the car with sniper rifle stored in its back and rode away from maidan together with strange man who drove the car. He prevented maidanuts from checking who was that driver. Now he is junta official. Nice isn't it?

[mistyronin 1181]

Wonderful. But "Putin" is a strong word per se :icon_mrgreen:

Yep, in fact is quite usual in different countries to call someone "son of Putin" as an insult ( if it's a woman Putina ).

Well it gets worst if you go to Spain, Italy or Portugal... Where that words even sound stronger.

Man tells that Ukrainian army shot his home

That man says that he doesn't know who shoot his house " that bullets don't know about owners ".

Pilot of Mi-24 that was shot down today tells how it had happened. They got a task to destroy BMP that was captured by locals, took a hit from something like heavy MG to the left side. After attempts to stabilise the course of damaged helo they landed at the swampy forest glade and escaped with the help of rescue team on Mi-8.

I think that the Ukrainian Army has been trying to blow up those BMD ( If I'm not wrong they were BMD from the airborn, not BMPs ). It would be a "nice trophy" to boost morale.

But I think that after more than 3 Hinds shoot down, they should think it twice. I'm having a lot of doubts about who is leading the Ukrainian Army, I'm afraid is a really bad commander.

Edited May 5, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

That man says that he doesn't know who shoot his house " that bullets don't know about owners ".

It's my words? Or maybe this is the name of video? And who is telling the words: "...it was Ukraine army..."?

[mistyronin 1181]

It's my words? Or maybe this is the name of video? And who is telling the words: "...it was Ukraine army?..."

He says that as the culprit of all the big operation, but not the specific shooting of his house. At least its how I understand it.

Basically he tells first what happen to his house, and later that all this situation is caused by the Ukrainian Army, that he don't need them there, and that he wants peace.

Which BTW IMO is logic. I think no one like to have an almost war situation at the doorstep of their home.

[vilas 477]

But I think that after more than 3 Hinds shoot down, they should think it twice. I'm having a lot of doubts about who is leading the Ukrainian Army, I'm afraid is a really bad commander.

in very very corrupted countries with very big nepothism (as i said before few times) structure of state doesn't work in crisis situation, cause most times in such corrupted countries in which neptothism is strong, officers, judges, high ranked civil servants, etc. are simply "sons and daughters of previous..." so , they are not wise, skilled, best students at course, they simply "have daddy, uncle",

so such commander can be really low profesionalist, but he get many stars on badge due to having important relative

this is difference between non(or low) corrupted country and high corrupted

in "transparent" country the best student in academy gets the best position, the worst studen (not skilled) is unemployed

in corrupted countries you can have highest marks or lowest marks , noone cares, but cares who is your daddy, uncle ,

i know it from Polish police dozen years ago ;) i had very good marks on exams, i knew someone who had very low points, but he finished courses, he went to academy, than ... he commited crime and was sent to prison, but he "had uncle" so in police academy there was no place for me as we call it "plecaki" (rucksack, backpack)

in Ukraine it is very strongly spread (corruption, nepothism) so probably commander is idiot, but idiot with uncle in Ministry

in communist time commanding officer was not professional but believing in Lenin guy (party member, political issues),

so he could be idiot, but he loved Lenin, he believed in Lenin, than his son grow up and ... get general mark "inherited" ;) thats how it works in Ukraine

before WW2 Stalin killed the best officers in army, later USSR had problems, cause the best skilled officers and commanders were in ground,

because Stalin was afraid of "inteligent people", people who have job thanx to nepotism afraid those who would be better than them (so they push off anyone who is good, in Polish we call it "grozi awansem" - "thereatening others with promotion" - which can be translated "he is better, he can be promoted higher, we must destroy him" )

my family members who were "thereatening with promotion" were also made to leave army, police , administration , cause for example they knew 3 foreign languages, and guys who were there knew zero foreign languages, so my brotther was fired from IT in army in end of 90s, than he took job in bank and earns now 3 times more as specialist of banking IT safety, Polish army not wanted him in 1990s, (before NATO standards, now it is different, now your skills are important too but Ukraine havent reached our level, they are at the stage we were in 1990 or even lower )

later it followed, idiots believing in Lenin like in god took position, than idiots had sons, who never had to be skilled, never had to pass any exams etc.

it is result

in west majority of high ranked personell was simply good in tests, skilled, high IQ, best marks in academies,

in east not , Ukraine due to high corruption and nepotism is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from western stadards (maybe most IQ skilled guys emigrated for job and now they work in EU countries)

corruption is cancer that harms every piece of state structure, from court, to commanding in stressfull hard situation

it is really funny - to destroy APC they have ATGM rockets that can fire from 2 kilometers, but they came to range that machinegun could took them (probably much smaller than even half kilometer) heh

on some YT videos they flight very low in urbanized areas (where someone with AA or HMG can be hidden)

thats why their soliders also do not have will to fight, who would risk life for corrupted leaders ? only suicidal

Edited May 5, 2014 by vilas

[arttem 1]

The railway echelons with military equipment moves in the direction of Dnepropetrovsk.

http://youtu.be/dnXm9SDteM4

---

At least its how I understand it.

Misty can you detach my personal words from the words of journalists or their statments? :) I understand why journalist use such name for video, he have that words in video. Did i give my personal point of view? :) No. Please just detach. Cause you quote the whole and it looks like it's mine statment.

---

The Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations Feltman, went to Moscow for consultations on Ukraine.

(ITAR-TASS) http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1167810

United Nations, 5 may. /Corr. ITAR-TASS Oleg Zelenin/. The UN under Secretary General for political Affairs Jeffrey Feltman flew to Moscow for consultations on the situation in Ukraine. About it the correspondent. ITAR-TASS has informed a source in the headquarters of the organization.

"As I understand, he has completed his mission in Cyprus and now flies to Moscow. He will arrive in the Russian capital as soon as it possible", - said the agency interlocutor.

Edited May 5, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

Misty can you detach my personal words from the words of journalists or their statments? :) I understand why journalist use such name for video, he have that words in video. Did i give my personal point of view? :) No. Please just detach. Cause you quote the whole and it looks like it's mine statment.

Indeed, I was talking about the headline. Sorry if it could be misunderstood with the quote :)

I'll fix it.

- - -

Interesting reflexion:

( Vice News ) I Know You Are a Fascist, But What Am I?

For a series of actions intended to counter a far-right or even fascist movement in Ukraine, Putin’s actions in Ukraine are awfully popular with actual European far-right and fascist movements.

The battle for eastern Ukraine is being fought as much as an information war in the West as it is with masked gunmen and anti-aircraft missiles in the region itself.

Edited May 5, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Wonderful. But "Putin" is a strong word per se :icon_mrgreen:

Let me explain to you something. On that video you can see not so old and very popular politics. One of them State Duma Deputy. I swear to you that every ten word is a heavy obscene. They are from the opposition and very popular among young people. But this does not mean that they should give an example. They speaking about the overthrow of the current government. But problem is that how they speaking, what words they use.

Edited May 5, 2014 by ArtTem

[spooky lynx 73]

Rumors tell that another Mi-8 was heavily damaged by MG fire on the ground and was disabled.

it is really funny - to destroy APC they have ATGM rockets that can fire from 2 kilometers, but they came to range that machinegun could took them (probably much smaller than even half kilometer) heh

on some YT videos they flight very low in urbanized areas (where someone with AA or HMG can be hidden)

Moreover those pilots worked together with ground forward observers who gave them targets. But despite this they failed to destroy BMP and lost the helo. Well, Ukrainian far right guys had never been good warriors... Proved since WW2.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, Ukrainian far right guys had never been good warriors... Proved since WW2.

Come on, drop that propaganda. Who do you think you can convince here ? The most far rightist governement is obviously Putin's one, open your eyes.

[arttem 1]

Slavyansk. As i understood. New wave. (Trying to check)

http://youtu.be/C3a_sSrTOjk

[spooky lynx 73]

Come on, drop that propaganda. Who do you think you can convince here ? The most far rightist governement is obviously Putin's one, open your eyes.

It's not propaganda but fact: "Galichina" division was crushed in plain field battle with army, now Right sector and Nazi-onal guard fail to take over two small cities, having total advantage both in number and firepower.

[mistyronin 1181]

It's not propaganda but fact: "Galichina" division was crushed in plain field battle with army, now Right sector and Nazi-onal guard fail to take over two small cities, having total advantage both in number and firepower.

I think Tournesol is saying that you are using the manipulation resource of "Guilty by association".

- - -

From RT Live:

In Kharkov, Ukrainian Railways has stopped selling tickets on trains traveling across the eastern part of the country, the company's press service announced. The routes of 17 trains will be changed. Trains will also be bypassing the cities of Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, and Konstantinovka. Also, it will be impossible to travel from Kharkov to the Lugansk and Donetsk regions by bus. The central bus terminal canceled all trips due to the military operation in the region.

It's weird that the Ukrainian Army didn't cut the public transportation and control all the communications.

[ProfTournesol 956]

It's not propaganda but fact: "Galichina" division was crushed in plain field battle with army, now Right sector and Nazi-onal guard fail to take over two small cities, having total advantage both in number and firepower.

Comparing WW2 and what happens in Ukraine ATM is just plain ridiculous. Ukrainian regular army is trying to regain control of its own territory, there is no Nazis fighting against the good Russians story here :rolleyes:

[Tonci87 163]

Apparently some people still believe in the fairy tale that all Pro Ukrainians are evil fashists who want to kill all Russians.....

[mistyronin 1181]

Apparently some people still believe in the fairy tale that all Pro Ukrainians are evil fashists who want to kill all Russians.....

It's funny, because most of Europe's neonazis in are in love with Putin, as he is acting like a new Fürher.

In fact the only ones that support Putin's actions and ideas in the EU are or Extrem Right neo-nazi parties or Extrem Left Communists ( I've read it already in different newspapers, and check their own webs and forums ).

[Tonci87 163]

It's funny, because most of Europe's neonazis in are in love with Putin, as he is acting like a new Fürher.

In fact the only ones that support Putin's actions and ideas in the EU are or Extrem Right neo-nazi parties or Extrem Left Communists ( I've read it already in different newspapers, and check their own webs and forums ).

Yeah it is pretty amazing that his administration can get away with such accusations when they are the ones who are endorsed by such groups.

[arttem 1]

....."Galichina" division ....., now Right sector and Nazi-onal guard.....

Let me guess you are speaking about them?

14.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS «Galizien»

http://s006.radikal.ru/i213/1405/70/d33a66c0de3a.jpg (188 kB)

http://s61.radikal.ru/i171/1405/a0/d0b87f188754.jpg (432 kB)

http://s018.radikal.ru/i517/1405/57/19c7ddcbfb70.jpg (173 kB)

http://s018.radikal.ru/i515/1405/c3/8fce7fceb3d6.jpg (386 kB)

http://s006.radikal.ru/i213/1405/dd/d7851cb0f8e5.jpg (292 kB)

Edited May 5, 2014 by ArtTem

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes of course, all those old nostalgics or young teen agers did enlist in the UKrainian army to storm the East.

[gunny1987 0]

I didn't know that there were so many in Italy.

BTW I was checking Immigration data, and for example if ever Romania decides to join Putin's doctrine and invade all the countries were their ethnics are being harassed, just to point out that there are almost 1 million Romanian citizens in Italy, and another million in Spain.

Well, during the '60s and '70s, we had a similar problem to the ukrainian one (but very small compared to that one) with tyrolean separatist in Trentino Alto Adige / Sued Tirol Region. Fortunately a civil war never happened, but there were a lot of terrorist attack, against italian electrical structures and Military and police forces. I Hope that romanian president doesn't read your message :D We already have too much problem here....

PD: You got really awesome photos in your Flickr.

Thank you very much :cool:

Edited May 5, 2014 by Gunny1987

[mistyronin 1181]

Let me guess you are speaking about them?

I think the point was not if the Right Sector is a Extreme Right party with neonazi associations. We already know that.

But thank God they are just a few and don't have much access to power. Nor are they planning to invade anyone nor anything like that. Are only dangerous to their fellow Ukrainians.

While Putin is leading a copycat of Hitler's expansionist policies. And that is dangerous, as Russia could provoke another World War. For now he has already conduct different invasions on their neighbors due to ethnical reasons.

[vilas 477]

It's funny, because most of Europe's neonazis in are in love with Putin, as he is acting like a new Fürher.

In fact the only ones that support Putin's actions and ideas in the EU are or Extrem Right neo-nazi parties or Extrem Left Communists ( I've read it already in different newspapers, and check their own webs and forums ).

the joke is that in every country nazi means different thing,

in Russia nazi is "those who not love Russia" while "those who want Russia to conquer other nations and territories" are ... "normal guys",

in German nazi means "those who want to conquer other nations and use Hitler symbols"

in Ukraine such Hitler symbol can be "symbol of fight against evil Stalin whose NKVD killed a lot of Ukrainians in 1930s"

in street of Poland nazi means "those who want to kill Poles and conquer our territory" in Polish mainstream media it means "those who love their country and use national flag"

in USA "aaa guy with Svastika, must be guy who like bikers and Motorhead music , simply cool stuff, some cool German symbols from games like Call of Duty, Wolfesntein , Medal of Honor Allied Assault, yeaa cool helmet, maybe reenactment or uniforms collector" and nazi is "the one that doesn't love Jews and the one that hate Black people"

in Isreal "nazis" is everyone who not love Israel and their banks,

in benelux "nazis" are everyone who not love LGTB and everyone who is patriotic in economy over rule of corporations (i love misunderstanding word "tollerance" with "supporter" in the west, if you not support something, they say you are not tollerant, while tollerance doesn't mean i must love someone, i simply tollerate him and not attack him - it is tollerance)

etc. etc. etc.

for me "bad guys" are those "who want to conquer my country, harm my country economy, killed my countrymen in past"

:)

so in different countries "nazi" means different thing,

Russian public call "fasicsts" Ukrainians, Ukrainian army, Ukrainian police

for me FASCIST is man who believe in "strong leader" - such as love for Putin, for me bigger "fascists" are Russians blindly loving Putin than Ukraianian, cause "fascists" ideas are ideas "around strong leader leading country" (like Duce in Italy in 1930s, like Hitler in Germany, like Kim family in North Korea)

according to Wikipedia (in Polish):

Autokratyzm w stylu wodzowskim;

Militaryzm;

Walka z odmiennymi ideologiami (np. demokracja, komunizm);

Pełna kontrola partii rządzącej nad dużą częścią aspektów życia społecznego i gospodarczego;

Gospodarczy etatyzm oraz korporacjonizm.

Nacjonalizm, w skrajnych przypadkach szowinizm bądź rasizm

-----------

fascism is:

- autoritary , leadership with leader,

- military society (look at Russians training kids, kids in uniforms that they show in movies, youth in uniforms training to use rifle),

- fight with other ideas,

- control of leaders on economy and life style

- corporationism, economical pushing trusted people on positions in industry,

- nationalism, racism

those things WIKI says about fascism - important in fascism is person of leaders and ... Russian having "strong leader" call "fascists" Ukrainian policemen, Ukrainian army who doesn't have "one leader"

it is really funny, it was like someone told me that i am enemy of cats, while i like to hug homeless cats on streer when i see cat :)

i see more fascism in Russia than in this mess multi-party, conflicted leaders in Ukraine

Edited May 5, 2014 by vilas

[arttem 1]

I think the point was not if the Right Sector is a Extreme Right party with neonazi associations. We already know that.

But thank God they are just a few and don't have much access to power. Nor are they planning to invade anyone nor anything like that. Are only dangerous to their fellow Ukrainians.

It's very sad that forum don't wanna to show all photos. For some reason he automaticaly make a link. And nobody go there. But if you look closer. You will find that i've collected photos with nazis+right sector+svoboda+politics.

http://s006.radikal.ru/i214/1405/3a/7cf71e2c7a2d.jpg (292 kB) its not just few boys.

[mistyronin 1181]

It's very sad that forum don't wanna to show all photos. For some reason he automaticaly make a link. And nobody go there. But if you look closer. You will find that i've collected photos with nazis+right sector+svoboda+politics.

http://s006.radikal.ru/i214/1405/3a/7cf71e2c7a2d.jpg (292 kB) its not just few boys.

Both Svoboda and Right sector have together less than 50.000 people, to me that is a few having in mind that Ukraine has 45 million people. But of course that after the Russian Invasion of Crimea and the pro-Russian insurrection, they are gonna gather more followers.

That's why I dislike so much certain media in Russia, because they are spreading hatred and provoking violence ( mainly the ones that are owned by the Kremlin: Rossiya 1, RT, etc. ). Are the main reason of all this madness ( well and also Putin's policies of invasion and ethnic "protection" ); I agree that Ukrainian actual Gov. hasn't done its best, but they have been finding Russia setting all the possible obstacles on their way.

Also the USA being cocky doesn't help much either.