Ukraine General

[Beagle 684]

president is clerk !!! clerk with salary from taxes, how can he have a jet which costs dozen of milion of dollars (not small Cesna, but jet) on private ?

government has duty planes /helis which are property of army , but private jet, and don't write me about German businesmen, they do not live in coutry where people earn 100 or 200 euro, but in country where people earn 3000 euro !!! makes difference

make that 2400 and thats before taxes...makes rather 1500 netto and if you now the cost of living in germany you have to know that out current poverty line is at 980€ for a single person....and I'm well below that line most of the year like hundred thousands of others despite higher grade of education...and it gets worse here every year...the west is not golden anymore.

basically no rise in salaries for 15 years but prices have increased to 170% of pre Euro introduction. I pay the same price in Euro for everyday consumption as i used to pay in D-Mark back in 2000 but salaries were basically cut in half by 2002. (1€ = 1.96 D-Mark) We share the same problems everywhere in Europe.

You mention4ed traffic...swedish, norwegian, netherlands, belgian, french, russian and polish trucks ruin our roads...the condition of our infrastrukture is alarming and we have the slowest Internet in western europe,,,even Hungary has better Connections. Our city communities have to close down public baths and schools and kindergarden because they are broke...and we ask ourselfs where all the money is going to.

[vilas 477]

use F5 Beagle, i found info about his official earnings, 37 000 dollars per year, such jet at cheapest costs 100 times more, he would have to be president for century without eating and wearing to save money, it shows corruption level

[Beagle 684]

It is not uncommon that the political elites come from the wealthiest part of society...so that earnings must not be the only income...and coruption is everywhere...germany has a massive coruption problem...because we have not signed the anti coruption agreement...guess why...because our MP say that an anti coruption law would hamper their work. MP coruption in germany is only illegal if it happens before the issue is voted for in parliament, if coruption is done afterwards it legal.

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

btw: here is a pretty cheap bombardier jet for sale.

http://www.aircraft24.com/jet/bombardier/challenger-604-wet-lease--xi106265.htm?fbacklink=index--xp2.htm

Wet lease should be sufficient to call it a private jet and would be a good solution for a gettaway jet on demand...that man must at least have some friends left to help him out.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Beagle

[Tonci87 163]

@Beagle It ain´t that easy. I too know someone who has a private Cessna and likes to fly it to croatia, but you can´t compare this to a jet. A jet may be relatively cheap to buy, but the upkeep costs are unbelivably high. You need a lot of money to afford a jet, more than to buy one!

[Beagle 684]

That's not the point...when common peiople know someone who could fly them out of the country....why should a president of a country like ukraine do not. The media just told us he left in a private jet...that must not mean it was his own and that point should not be focused on to much.

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's not the point...when common peiople know someone who could fly them out of the country....why should a president of a country like ukraine do not. The media just told us he left in a private jet...that must not mean it was his own and that point should not be focused on to much.

His son is known as being one of the wealthiest man in the country.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Who knows who owns the 'private jet' it may have been provided by the EU as part of the deal. What other option did he have? Sit around at Kiev airport waiting for a scheduled flight while getting his throat cut?

why Putin should care about life in other countries than his own ? he is politic responsible for standard of life and economy of Russia, not other country

Bizzare and absurd considering all the evidence to the contrary. It's very obvious to anyone that cares to look that Putin's goal is to partially reestablish the old USSR alliance. What's happened in Ukraine is a rejection of dictatorship, you ought to take note of that.

[vilas 477]

His son is known as being one of the wealthiest man in the country.

yes, cause dady helped in busines,

you know what is mechanism of becoming rich in such conditions?

example from 90s in Poland:

- one product cost on market lets say 3 dollars (it can be bureau paper , whatever)

- there is one man who is son of polician, he buys container of this "paper",

- than one ministry orders from him that paper lets say for 6 dollars per unit

he sells it and has 100% income

than they order another part, another part, another part and soon man becomes milionaire,

in Poland in 90s son of one general had some toilet paper, sounds funny ?

pack of toilet paper costed lets say 2 dollars (big pack with many roles)

and this guy get order from army , which wanted to buy toilet paper for base, they were ordering those packages for... 12 dollars per pack, they pay him first, so he could buy those packs for 1.5 in wholesaler and than he could sell them for 12,

market sale price was 2 dollars in regular shop on every street, yes, indeed nice business payed from taxes ,

many sons, daughters of our politicians "work" and have "succes" like this, they for example have blog about fashion and one TV station pays for quoting blog lets say 5000 Euro per month, and ... this TV station gets from budget money from advertisments from government or has football stadion which is "co-founded" from taxes ,

other son of polician gets very well payed job in airport which belongs to state etc. etc. et.

living in France in more transparent public spending conditions you do not know how busines is being made in east

in my country legal regulations like "you cannot be boss of your family member in one public institution" have only few years (after joining EU), before you could have in ministry : director, his wife as his assistant, his daughter as manager, his son as specialist in 1 department and this director setting them salary from taxes ,

if i was son of polician in ministry of finance i would be manager in bank and riding now Jaguar and you would be calling me man of succes ;) but this bank would not take my CV if my father was worker in factory,

you can ask why noone writes about it in mainstream press ? than i will answer - majority of journalists in mainstream media are sons and daughters of for example intel officers, special security officers etc.

business in east is sometimes made in following way:

"okay, so you hire my nephew for 10 000 per month, otherwise you have tax control every week, labour safety control every week, tax inspection freeze account of company for 3 months, you have fire safety control every week, so what is chance of my son to be director at your company? if he will be director than other company will be ordering from you things, which later we buy from state budget",

you know how Polish business was born in 1989? some guys suddenly had a lot of money (special services, cause there was no free market before 1989) and than they become very rich on state-contracts, other guy was independant from ex-commie intel, he was stating his own succesfull company because he was wise and innovative, he had tax controls every week, his accounts were frozen, soon guy bankrupted ,

so do not think that very huge money on east came from hard work, they mostly came from taxes ,

Bill Gates is rich, he was innovative, he invented Windows - he is succesfull man who worked hard,

but in east ? some ex-intel officers are leading small bureau and this bureau is selling oil, and state buys oil from other country via this small bureau with few retired officers, yeees, succesful men, without them country would be able to buy oil from other country? there is mediator needed ?

nepotism is destroying economy - better man who could be better worker and bring more profits stay unemployed, while from taxes (i say about public money, not about private companies) overpayed sons of policians and officers keep positions doing nothing (without qualifications)

i specially gave examples which many Poles know, if daughter of prime minister can get big money for "quoting her blog", why noone want to pay me 5000 euro per month for quoting "my blog" ? why, i would like to get 5000 euro every month cause someone "quoted what next addon i will do next week", but if i was son or minister of defence, than screenshots of my addons would be printed in Polish press and i would be getting 5000 euro for one screenshot quoted,

someone gave from EU founds 250 000 euro for guy who made website about cats (koci swiat pl) why i cannot get 250 000 euro for making website about cat, i have cat, i can take picture of this cat, make website in html, who will pay me 250 000 for it ?

yeeea, great enterpronoun person,yeee,

sons of policians who work in companies (which are payed from budget) with tripled salaries comparing to other person in that position later become "succesfull men"

Edited February 22, 2014 by vilas

[Rydygier 1317]

Heard, that president's jet landed in United Arab Emirates? "President" resigned (edit: he said in TV, he didn't...)?

They say, was spotted numerous Russian airplanes, that flew to Kiev recently (why?) now running away from Gostomel Airport. Very young "specops" from Crimea refuses to be cannon fodder as provocation for separatistic propaganda? "Someone's" plans failed? :)

Edited February 22, 2014 by Rydygier

[tortuosit 486]

oh shit, they will release Timoshenko, she was only one policitician sentenced for corrupted ruling in our modern history, gosh... EU elites will not allow that any rich man from elite cannot ever be imprisoned for cheats,

she is very very very rich person imprisoned for some stuff she did as prime-minister, and whole EU elites wanted to free her (because half of our elites behave like here and they felt it is danger phenomenon that rich politician is put to justice) , bad step

In Germany she serves as a symbol for the good side. The equation goes like this: She has that cool hair style, she looks young, young = internet/color revolution, internet revolution = "only good people with no evil or personal interest make the world better" -> Timoshenko good.

Vilas, you say Germany has a big industry. Yes - but fewer and fewer people participate from the money. It's no surprise our cities look worse and our schools more and more become rotten houses.

Re: "lack of jobs is result of 'made in china'" - it's the hen-egg problem, no matter what was first: a clear downward spiral.

I will laugh if in Ukraine they have elections and once again they will vote for a pro-russian course.

Edited February 22, 2014 by tortuosit

[vilas 477]

many symbols in press are later becoming false symbols , i know she is such symbol, Lech Walesa is also symbol, that this one man make communism fall, but in fact he was comprise-man, who wanted compromise, not who wanted to remove commies , commie intel, commie families from any influence on state , a lot of evidences say that he was even stopping workers from making "too strong demands", after communism fall he suddenly changed face to "we must draw line and not look for revenge, we must keep left-wing strong" etc. and suddenly he was sabotaging right-wing prime minister Olszewski who wanted to get rid of commies from army, police, courts, public institutions,

now this man who grown from trade union says that not satisfied workers should be beaten by police if they do not like their economical conditions and protest,

man who is symbol (in west) of fight with commies here is symbol of allowing commies to be in power (not political power, but in uniform services, in intel, in media , in jurisdiction,

woman who was sentencing my mother in 1982 while my mother was activist of Solidarity was later vice-president of regional Court in 00s, that woman was not fired from being judge, she continued career, the same in army, police, prosecutor office, public industry like previous banks, social security found etc. kids of commie officers do not wash streets, they are managers in banks, in police, in court, in tv, in public administration, everywhere, while solidarity activists are usual workers with poor salary again or poor pension/retired)

you know Russian joke about Stalin ?

"stalin is very good man, i seen it, he took kid on his hand, he held child , hugged child and put child on the ground again, but he could kill it and not killed, he is good man"

Edited February 22, 2014 by vilas

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

If this is a thread about Ukraine why are we subjected to so many 'Polish toilet paper' anecdotes, which really don't have any relevance? I would rather hear about Ukrainian toilet paper ta very much.

Regarding Yulia Tymoshenko the arrest and trial were politically motivated prosecutions and as she wasn't the only victim, it amounted to a politically motivated campaign against the opposition. The case of Tymoshenko and several others has been subject to review by the European HCR and an extradition to Ukraine was refused. United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon also has expressed concern over Tymoshenko's conviction. She was also subjected to excessive use of force (beaten) while refusing to be transferred to a prison hospital.

Interesting reading what human rights watch has to say, particularly the 'extraordinary rendition' by Russian Agents of an asylum seeker. I thought only the 'Great Satan' did that sort of thing? (3 pages)

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/ukraine?page=2

Edited February 22, 2014 by Mattar_Tharkari

[ACPL Jon 68]

Bizzare and absurd considering all the evidence to the contrary. It's very obvious to anyone that cares to look that Putin's goal is to partially reestablish the old USSR alliance. What's happened in Ukraine is a rejection of dictatorship, you ought to take note of that.

Exactly. Remember argument over PATRIOT systems in Poland? It was the best wake up call.

"Hey, Cold War haven't really ended - cross the border and boy, we're on!".

[blu3sman 11]

If this is a thread about Ukraine why are we subjected to so many 'Polish toilet paper' anecdotes, which really don't have any relevance? I would rather hear about Ukrainian toilet paper ta very much.

Because it's the same scheme, but instead of toilet paper it's heavy machinery, mining industry, natural gas, monopoly on solar power etc etc

Basically ALL THE THINGS!!11

-------------------

Some photos of tiny part of presidential residency http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html

Edited February 22, 2014 by Blu3sman

[Tonci87 163]

Janukowitsch who is currently in Charkow, where he still has many supporters, declares that he will not leave the country and that he still considers himself to be the president.

He also declared that he doesn´t accept the decisions that are currently going through the parliament.

Meanwhile security forces have completely pulled out of areas around the Maidan and the parliament.

So called self defence forces are guarding government buildings.

http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/bilder/ukraine-maidan158~_v-videowebl.jpg

Protesters are offering guided tours through the unguarded Janukowitsch residency.

Everyone is speculating that Ukraine may be divided in two parts.

That way russia would secure it´s black sea naval bases...

[ProfTournesol 956]

Some photos of tiny part of presidential residency http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html

Come on, that's Disneyland !

[sudayev 27]

Just read in the news. Meanwhile in the region of Donetsk , Yanukovytch tried to board a Russian airliner eastbound. Border guards managed to stop him, he's actually stranded.

Will he manage to flee or not?

[spooky lynx 73]

Some sources claim it's false. He's still in Harkov.

[sudayev 27]

People have seized Yanukoych's mansion - Mezhyhyria.

5 story wooden house all in marble and shit, private zoo, 300sq km hunting grounds, big ass toilet that looks like a fucking Babylonian throne, gold plated toilet seats, hoverboats, greenhouse full of tropical fruits, aviary, golf course, ship harbor, clubhouse that look like a galleon, airfield. Gaddafi would have approved!

All for presidential salary? I don't think so.

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/demonstranci-przejeli-luksusowa-rezydencje-janukowycza/xk8bq (click on orange field "zobacz galerie" and use arros to browse)

[scrim 1]

If they sell that toilet, I will totally put down an entire month's worth of pay on it!

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Oh ffs, that toilet! I could never take a dump in that. It's just not right.

[Tonci87 163]

Feeling like a King, even when you take a shit. Un fucking believable

[batto 17]

UDAR/УДÐР (translates to "strike" or "punch") is a pro-European political party in Ukraine headed by Vitali Klitschko. On 22/02/2014 UDAR activists organised meeting in Kerch (a city on the Kerch Peninsula of eastern Crimea). However, people of Kerch was not very hospitable to Euromaidan supporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMWV1WdQVMc

It'd be awesome fight if both groups met...

Edited February 23, 2014 by batto

[vilas 477]

red-black flag is ... ? who ?

[spooky lynx 73]

red-black flag is ... ? who ?

Those who tortured Poles with saws and axes in 40's.

Nice example of freedom of speech, bandera edition.

... and other nice example of those who now in Kyiv.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Spooky Lynx