Is there a mod that requires a realistic number of bullets to kill AI?

[jaysmizzle 3]

The ridiculously unrealistic requirement of emptying an entire clip into an enemy (I exaggerate somewhat) to kill them ruins this game in my opinion and I'm really surprised they thought this was a good idea. Surely there's a mod that fixes this, right? I can't seem to find one.

[tpw 2314]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?171382-NATO-5-56-and-7-62-adjustor

This increases the damage done by bullets. I use it constantly, you can usually drop someone with 1 or 2 rounds.

[Smurf 12]

For the N th time THIS thread.

And I'm starting to think this is more related to recoil\sway than actually number of bullets on the enemy (at least on SP). It is hard to get a good grouping in this game even with small caliber weapons.

[rye1 21]

There is no 'realistic number'. There is no "Oh, humans? They require four!".

[ajsarge 10]

There is no 'realistic number'. There is no "Oh, humans? They require four!".

What he said. The .45 ACP was invented when .38 rounds were unable to drop toxed-up natives charging at soldiers. Even then, it's not because the .45 killed them faster, but put up a physical obstacle to stop them in their tracks. Though, that does lead to killing them faster.

In comparison, you could hit a human in the right wrong a lethal spot on the torso with a .22 rimfire and kill them in 1 shot.

Thus you have that wide spread where you could kill someone with 1 round or 5. Add body armor and...I'd just start learning how to consistently aim for headshots.

[chortles 263]

There is no 'realistic number'. There is no "Oh, humans? They require four!".

Pretty much this. I should add that in the infamous 1986 Miami shootout between several FBI agents and two bank robbers, already-wounded individuals on both sides managed to maneuver, shoot and achieve hits, and even kill despite both their injuries and lack of chemical assistance (reputedly the robbers' toxicology reports deemed them alcohol-free and drug-free as of their deaths).

Crucially and infamously, one of the robbers was first shot through an arm with the 9 mm bullet penetrating his chest cavity and even puncturing a lung -- frankly speaking, this wound was mortal -- and subsequently struck in a leg and a foot with a 9 mm bullet each, yet he managed to maneuver and fight on for minutes to the point of closing in on a car used as cover by three FBI agents who he then shot (two were killed)... before sustaining 00 buckshot to both feet while entering that car (at some point he was rejoined by the other bank robber who was knocked unconscious earlier in the fight) by a FBI agent who he'd wounded through the arm at the beginning but who had also fought on... this FBI agent eventually closing in on said car as well and killing both bank robbers, who by then had already sustained multiple gunshot wounds.

[bonchie 39]

There is no 'realistic number'. There is no "Oh, humans? They require four!".

No, but this is still a game.

If no wounding/incapacitation is put in place, then it's not realistic to have nearly every soldier take 3-5 shots to put out of the fight either.

Some compromises need to made until wounding is implemented.

[Tyl3r99 41]

I think its ok as it is... turn extended armour off

[rye1 21]

No, but this is still a game.

If no wounding/incapacitation is put in place, then it's not realistic to have nearly every soldier take 3-5 shots to put out of the fight either.

Some compromises need to made until wounding is implemented.

So, what are you suggesting? Up the damage values so it only takes 1-3 shots?

[maturin 12]

I think its ok as it is... turn extended armour off

For the last time. Extended Armor does not affect enemies.

[bonchie 39]

So, what are you suggesting? Up the damage values so it only takes 1-3 shots?

Until there's a viable wounding system that causes enemy's to be affected by being hit, yes. That'd be my choice.

Edited January 28, 2014 by bonchie

[Chocolate 1]

"Oh, humans? They require four!".

This is priceless

[Marksman5147 10]

Well look at it this way-

A SAPI plate is designed to take 6 rounds of 7.62mm NATO (a M4 is a smaller 5.56x45mm NATO) when combined with Level IIIA Soft Armor.

A ESAPI is capable of stopping heavier .30 cal and 7.62's that are higher grain essentially it can stop DMR rounds really.

So there's the PC made of 1000D Cordura which could stop a M9 round depending on range and ammo.

You have a front and back plate, likely also Side plates with layers of Soft Armor behind each plate and possibility even more, the plate is designed to stop 6 rounds evenly spaced combine that with adrenaline.

On my MAR-CIRAS I can put a Level III Sapi plate with Level IIIA Soft Armor (or ESAPI with level IV-A soft armor) then I can add BALCs Armor which covers my entire body where even the plate doesn't. That's a lot of armor and there's many setups you could put depending on your PC (Plate Carrier)

So 4-5 rounds maybe more IS realistic. It could take that just to penetrate then there's still physical will and adrenaline.

Furthermore I've seen Marines survive head shots from Dragunov's which fire huge ass 7.62x54Rmm 168(?)grain rounds. The helmet stopped the speed enough for the skull not to crack happened to two marines in a row (same window position by an enemy sniper within the first shot the second man was hit 5 seconds later).

Sorry I don't know EVERY fact a I do not have the game as I don't have a PC but I really enjoy Arma videos and a MOD for 1-2 shot kills is retarded. I would let you shot me twice with a AR-15 if I had full armor on so long as you buy me new plates and pay me a good sum of money to deal with the pain from the hit.

In combat things obviously don't work as the factory test ona plate claims but anything under 3 hits is retarded there's a reason double-tapping is used to get a kill over shooting someone once and them getting back up just put a good burst on target, though granted it would be much more realistic if you fell when hit as that's a lot of force hitting you even if the plate stops the hit.

[armilio 14]

Well look at it this way-

A SAPI plate is designed to take 6 rounds of 7.62mm NATO (a M4 is a smaller 5.56x45mm NATO) when combined with Level IIIA Soft Armor.

A ESAPI is capable of stopping heavier .30 cal and 7.62's that are higher grain essentially it can stop DMR rounds really.

So there's the PC made of 1000D Cordura which could stop a M9 round depending on range and ammo.

You have a front and back plate, likely also Side plates with layers of Soft Armor behind each plate and possibility even more, the plate is designed to stop 6 rounds evenly spaced combine that with adrenaline.

On my MAR-CIRAS I can put a Level III Sapi plate with Level IIIA Soft Armor (or ESAPI with level IV-A soft armor) then I can add BALCs Armor which covers my entire body where even the plate doesn't. That's a lot of armor and there's many setups you could put depending on your PC (Plate Carrier)

So 4-5 rounds maybe more IS realistic. It could take that just to penetrate then there's still physical will and adrenaline.

Furthermore I've seen Marines survive head shots from Dragunov's which fire huge ass 7.62x54Rmm 168(?)grain rounds. The helmet stopped the speed enough for the skull not to crack happened to two marines in a row (same window position by an enemy sniper within the first shot the second man was hit 5 seconds later).

Sorry I don't know EVERY fact a I do not have the game as I don't have a PC but I really enjoy Arma videos and a MOD for 1-2 shot kills is retarded. I would let you shot me twice with a AR-15 if I had full armor on so long as you buy me new plates and pay me a good sum of money to deal with the pain from the hit.

In combat things obviously don't work as the factory test ona plate claims but anything under 3 hits is retarded there's a reason double-tapping is used to get a kill over shooting someone once and them getting back up just put a good burst on target, though granted it would be much more realistic if you fell when hit as that's a lot of force hitting you even if the plate stops the hit.

Surviving is different to continue fighting like nothing happened. It is a really big difference. 2-3 bullets was a compromise.

7.62 have less penetrative power than 5.56.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Armilio

[TSAndrey 1]

There is no 'realistic number'. There is no "Oh, humans? They require four!".

There's no way someone in real life could sprint after being shot 3 times by a rifle!

[bonchie 39]

No one disagrees that body armor has the ability to save lives in such a way and in perfect situations even withstand a half-dozen hits.

That's again not the point though. When you are shot 3 times you should reasonably be out of the fight for some period of time, even if it's just scampering for cover and assessing your condition. You shouldn't do a weird twitch and keep firing like nothing happened.

Then there's also legs/arms wounding that isn't taken into account. So you can actually shoot someone in the arms/legs 5-6 times and they keep shooting like nothing has happened currently.

Once a wounding system is in place I'll have no issue with it taking 3-4 shots to actually kill someone. Until then, I'd rather have the AI die sooner because it at least more realistically simulates their fighting condition after being hit (in other words it puts them out of the fight). Their death itself may not be totally realistic, but again, it's a compromise.

[maturin 12]

You have a front and back plate, likely also Side plates with layers of Soft Armor behind each plate and possibility even more, the plate is designed to stop 6 rounds evenly spaced combine that with adrenaline.

On my MAR-CIRAS I can put a Level III Sapi plate with Level IIIA Soft Armor (or ESAPI with level IV-A soft armor) then I can add BALCs Armor which covers my entire body where even the plate doesn't. That's a lot of armor and there's many setups you could put depending on your PC (Plate Carrier)

No arguments there. But the problem in-game right now is that the whole torso is protected from bullets, even where there are no plates. Soft armor just isn't going to cut it against any serious round.

If we get realistically effective armor, we have to also get realistic coverage, and realistic consequences for wounds to the shoulders (where no plate is ever going to get in the way), pelvis and limbs. Same goes for helmet vs face.

The shoulders and pelvis in particular, are so full of bones and muscles that any hit will cause appalling damage and probably disable the limb. Whereas a through-and-through hit to the torso might just pencil a little hole in your lung tissue and leave you to stagger to a medic.

A2 muddled through without proper wounding and suppression systems, but realistic body armor throws the game balance way out of whack and requires these new features as recompense.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

I'm always amused when people complain about the AI one shotting them and then complain about the not being able to do the same to the AI

[bonchie 39]

I'm always amused when people complain about the AI one shotting them and then complain about the not being able to do the same to the AI

That's a separate issue.

Lethality of bullets to armor is not the problem in that case. It's that the AI are way too accurate (i.e. headshots), especially from long distances with iron sights while not even laying down.

[tpw 2314]

I think a lot of the problems people have are with the non-responsiveness of vanilla AI to being shot. There is no penalty except death. They will regularly take 3-4 x 7.62 rounds centre mass and twitch like they've been hit with a BB gun, with no apparent impact on fighting ability or health, only to drop dead on the 5th. I've scripted in behaviour (TPW FALL) to simulate the shock of taking a round by animated/ragdoll fall to ground, but even then the hit unit will eventually return to his feet and require 3-4 more rounds to finish off (and more than likely headshot you for good measure).

[bonchie 39]

I think a lot of the problems people have are with the non-responsiveness of vanilla AI to being shot. There is no penalty except death. They will regularly take 3-4 x 7.62 rounds centre mass and twitch like they've been hit with a BB gun, with no apparent impact on fighting ability or health, only to drop dead on the 5th. I've scripted in behaviour (TPW FALL) to simulate the shock of taking a round by animated/ragdoll fall to ground, but even then the hit unit will eventually return to his feet and require 3-4 more rounds to finish off (and more than likely headshot you for good measure).

Exactly.

[rye1 21]

Until there's a viable wounding system that causes enemy's to be affected by being hit, yes. That'd be my choice.

Sounds like a reasonable filler until true fixes are put in place.

There's no way someone in real life could sprint after being shot 3 times by a rifle!

In the hand and lower arm? Or even better...

Three through and throughs, through your buttcheeks!

[chortles 263]

In the hand and lower arm? Or even better...

Three through and throughs, through your buttcheeks!

I'm reminded of the aforementioned Miami shootout... the FBI agent I highlighted took a .223 (external dimensions practically identical to 5.56 mm) to the forearm at the start, yet fought on with both a shotgun and a revolver, eventually wounding and killing the (also-wounded, also-fighting-on-from-the-start) bank robber who'd shot him with a rifle.

[froggyluv 2130]

I posted a game a few years ago on here that had actual organ, muscle and connective tissue damage highlighted on a chart. I think it was a mod for either Counterstrike or Swat -looked great and wish I could find it...

[clifdenhill 1]

I posted a game a few years ago on here that had actual organ, muscle and connective tissue damage highlighted on a chart. I think it was a mod for either Counterstrike or Swat -looked great and wish I could find it...

Something like the RWS(realistic wounding system) mod in the add-ons & mods thread?