Damage system sucks - fix needed

[carlostex 38]

I'm all for an advanced wounding system.

The 3D character models must include hitboxes for human organs.

Head - Death

Heart - Death would occur within a minute due to loss of blood. The player's screen would begin to go out of focus and eventually black out due to loss of conscience by bleeding out.

Lungs - This would depend on the wound. A player or AI shot in the lungs by a high velocity AP round could still be saved by being patched up in a couple of minutes, if not done within 2 minutes then its death. Medics would need to patch out the bleeding and applying a valve to release pressure. Player and AI would still be able to recover but its weapon sway and movement speed are now affected. A little blur vision as well due to lower oxygen count on blood. If the round penetrates but does not exit lungs then i think death should occur in the next couple of minutes as lungs are too damaged for the person to breathe.

Stomach, pancreas and guts- A bullet that penetrates and exits should allow the player and AI to be patched and have bigger resistance of time, like being patched up within 10 minutes. More than that and he lost too many blood, enters shock and dies. If a bullet penetrates and stops there then we must consider more damage is done, so patching in less than 2 minutes is required otherwise bleed out and death.

Liver - Shot in the liver penetration and exit, should give 2 minutes to patch up. If the bullet stops there i think the damage to the liver would be too severe for the guy to continue. Internal bleeding would be too severe and death would follow.

Limbs - Depending on amount of shots and severity of wounds, death would only occur by bleed out. But infantry with leg wounds should limp and not able to run anymore due to pain. Now here could enter some game balance by administrating pain killers or morphine that would allow player or AI to run again but still not as fast.

I know this sounds a little hardcore, but i think it would be a good start.

[Bouben 3]

I'm all for an advanced wounding system.

The 3D character models must include hitboxes for human organs.

Head - Death

Heart - Death would occur within a minute due to loss of blood. The player's screen would begin to go out of focus and eventually black out due to loss of conscience by bleeding out.

Lungs - This would depend on the wound. A player or AI shot in the lungs by a high velocity AP round could still be saved by being patched up in a couple of minutes, if not done within 2 minutes then its death. Medics would need to patch out the bleeding and applying a valve to release pressure. Player and AI would still be able to recover but its weapon sway and movement speed are now affected. A little blur vision as well due to lower oxygen count on blood. If the round penetrates but does not exit lungs then i think death should occur in the next couple of minutes as lungs are too damaged for the person to breathe.

Stomach, pancreas and guts- A bullet that penetrates and exits should allow the player and AI to be patched and have bigger resistance of time, like being patched up within 10 minutes. More than that and he lost too many blood, enters shock and dies. If a bullet penetrates and stops there then we must consider more damage is done, so patching in less than 2 minutes is required otherwise bleed out and death.

Liver - Shot in the liver penetration and exit, should give 2 minutes to patch up. If the bullet stops there i think the damage to the liver would be too severe for the guy to continue. Internal bleeding would be too severe and death would follow.

Limbs - Depending on amount of shots and severity of wounds, death would only occur by bleed out. But infantry with leg wounds should limp and not able to run anymore due to pain. Now here could enter some game balance by administrating pain killers or morphine that would allow player or AI to run again but still not as fast.

I know this sounds a little hardcore, but i think it would be a good start.

You are skipping the current essential problems of the damage system while introducing more clutter for which there is no solid ground prepared yet.

[carlostex 38]

You are skipping the current essential problems of the damage system while introducing more clutter for which there is no solid ground prepared yet.

My proposal is for an advanced wounding system introducing hitboxes on character models to facilitate realistic wounding. It's not up to us to decide if or how it's gonna be implemented. So take my post as a mere suggestion.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

The infantry damage and medic system really needs to change. Priority #1 after optimizations IMO.

BI doesn't need to do this, MANW contestants are doing it for them. Just have to wait a couple months! :)

[Bucic 1]

BI doesn't need to do this, MANW contestants are doing it for them. Just have to wait a couple months! :)

Do you have any specific entries in mind?

[chompster 29]

BI doesn't need to do this, MANW contestants are doing it for them. Just have to wait a couple months! :)

maybe i missed something but i don't recall any of the MANW content being integrated into A3 itself.

In which case, yes, BI does need to do it themselves and not constantly be depending on the mod community to fix crucial things.

[the_demongod 31]

maybe i missed something but i don't recall any of the MANW content being integrated into A3 itself.

In which case, yes, BI does need to do it themselves and not constantly be depending on the mod community to fix crucial things.

agreed, I should be able to play Arma 3 without having to download a bunch of mods (which prevent me from playing online, are sometimes buggy and/or kill the framerate). What could have been so wrong with the A2 damage model that they had to change it so much X(

[Bucic 1]

agreed, I should be able to play Arma 3 without having to download a bunch of mods (which prevent me from playing online, are sometimes buggy and/or kill the framerate). What could have been so wrong with the A2 damage model that they had to change it so much X(

Isn't it the main reason why Dyslexy does ArmA 2 almost exclusively?

[maturin 12]

Isn't it the main reason why Dyslexy does ArmA 2 almost exclusively?

All ShackTac PvP is now A3, so no.

[bigpickle 0]

Rather than make a bunch of bandaids for the problem, I would prefer waiting for a proper complex medical system which would likely include a better damage system.

The hp health system must die!

The body armor also has to be improved to not make the entire player protected. And body armor could make use of proper penetration and armor plates.

Whilst I absolutely agree with you on seeing a full damage system, that would require animations and we are already missing quite a few from game.

[Bucic 1]

Rather than make a bunch of bandaids for the problem, I would prefer waiting for a proper complex medical system which would likely include a better damage system.

The hp health system must die!

The body armor also has to be improved to not make the entire player protected. And body armor could make use of proper penetration and armor plates.

As unrealistic as it gets. Look at it from a distance for a moment. The current system is worse:

- than over a decade old game, including BI's OFP

- than a mod of a single modder done over the course of one week

I don't think someone performing like this is capable of dishing out a revamp anytime soon, if at all.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Bucic

[bigpickle 0]

I don't think someone performing like this is capable of dishing out a revamp anytime soon.

lol

;)

[enex 11]

- than a mod of a single modder done over the course of one week

Bi have to create in engine built solution is not the same to a mods.

- than over a decade old game, including BI's OFP

Try take into account overall arma scheme, is not only infantry that they need to

take care of.There is DLCs, daily fixes, tools, optimizations, vehicles, planes, helos

with relative small number of developers (I think 50)

arma can't be perfect because it's so complex on many fronts.

Degrading it like you do makes me sad.And I would like to see as much as you the complex medical system.

[Bucic 1]

I don't know whether this has been posted already but it's an interesting comment from a guy working on ballistics mod

Currently in game when a solider wears armor it covers his whole body extremities included, to make things worse, personal armor give a FLAT bonus to energy dissipation, which means that it affect the bullets HIT value REGARDLESS of its penetration capabilities. This is something that NO ballistics code alone can fix, this is BIS at their finest to simplify combat. Now if the Bullet penetrability and densities of objects can be properly calculated and calibrated as well as fixing the personal armor code could be implemented then we could get into some real interesting results regarding combat ballistics.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?181324-Advanced-Ballistics-%28WIP%29

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

Bi have to create in engine built solution is not the same to a mods.

Try take into account overall arma scheme, is not only infantry that they need to

take care of.There is DLCs, daily fixes, tools, optimizations, vehicles, planes, helos

with relative small number of developers (I think 50)

arma can't be perfect because it's so complex on many fronts.

Degrading it like you do makes me sad.And I would like to see as much as you the complex medical system.

Take into account bis have people working for them that reply and give actual factual reasons for the game parts being broken based on their work. Nobody needs sounding off excuses on their behalf as you have done.it does not get things fixed in fact it as much help as someone just shouting. Abuses. It is another wasted post.

Post reports of bugs if you want to help bis. And leave the excuses for another forum .

Nothing wrong with criticism of the damage system. If there was, the tread be closed.

[Bucic 1]

Is there any rough estimate on the Marksmen DLC release date?

[13islucky 10]

I don't know whether this has been posted already but it's an interesting comment from a guy working on ballistics mod

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?181324-Advanced-Ballistics-%28WIP%29

Shit, then. I guess that's why all the armour countering drills (including but not limited to the "sweep the leg" and "shoot the dick" drills) haven't really been working. This means it's a lot worse than I thought it was, which bums me out.

[-Coulum- 35]

Currently in game when a solider wears armor it covers his whole body extremities included

This part is not true. A vest offers protection only to the torso. A helmet only to the head. It is just the opfor uniform that protects the arms and legs to a degree.

That said, the problem of the helmet protecting the entirety of the face, or a plate protecting the whole torso from any angles does exist.

[Tonci87 163]

This part is not true. A vest offers protection only to the torso. A helmet only to the head. It is just the opfor uniform that protects the arms and legs to a degree.

That said, the problem of the helmet protecting the entirety of the face, or a plate protecting the whole torso from any angles does exist.

^this

Sadöy it doesn´t matter where you hit somebody in his side, back or front, the whole torso is protected equally while IRL vests offer very little to no protection on the sides...

The problem becomes very visible when you shoot at soldiers that are prone. If you hit their shoulders they are again protected by the vest while IRL vests offer little to no protection in that area.

[valentinbk 10]

Found this post on reddit of someone making a total overhaul of the damage model to what pretty much should be, its a shame he still hasn't made a public release..

http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/244voh/mod_progress_update_complete_infantry_damage

[tmp95 16]

Hitting enemies 4/5/6 times does become somewhat old. Use to not bother me too much but is growing kind of immersion breaking.

[the_demongod 31]

Same here, I used to just think "oh, it's hard, I need to get better" but the fact that the AI can not only see you way too easy, but can kill you in 1-2 shots means that they can see you sooner, shoot you more accurately, and kill you in less shots making it really really tiring. Perhaps what we need is a rebel faction for CSAT, the way NATO has the FIA, an easier enemy for coop, even if the sides are way unbalanced, which would allow the player to go on larger campaigns without dying so often. A 50/50 chance is not very interesting, since you'll end up dying pretty often.

[froggyluv 2136]

Found this post on reddit of someone making a total overhaul of the damage model to what pretty much should be, its a shame he still hasn't made a public release..

http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/244voh/mod_progress_update_complete_infantry_damage

Wow that looks pretty slick. Hope he's still on it as last post was 5 months ago. The using of non-prescribed objects for cover sounds almost too good to be true...

[tmp95 16]

It's the 5.56 round that needs to be upgraded (more damage). The difference between the MK416 and MK417 is night and day. 5.56 rounds need to be more upgraded.

[jackTIGR 1]

IMO ballistics are not the biggest problem, but as the OP said damage non-localisation.

In every part of the series it was like this: you get shot in the leg, you can only crawl. You get shot in the arm, your aim is way off. Two shots in the chest will down a man (just tested in A2 vanilla and ace to make sure).

A3 completely different. Takes 5 shots to chest to down an enemy. For every shot he will do that freaking, hateful, twitch. And there is absolutely no difference from the AI being hit in the head from being hit in the arm or chest, each part takes the same amount of hits before being killed.

It's exactly like the old shooters (Quake, Doom, first CoD, etc.) where you had a health counter and you can function completely fine with 1% health.

One of the things that piss me off the most about A3 is when I get hit in the legs, instead of falling to the ground I start walking, very very slowly and that UPRIGHT. WHERE is the sense in that, where is the LOGIC?! Since when do you straighten up when a bullet shatters your knee?!?!?! Inevitably it ends to miserable end since you're such a lovely, stationary, UPRIGHT and thus big target for the enemy. Instead of lying on the ground where you are a smaller target that also has less weapon sway (the fact that the vanilla still doesn't have weapon supporting/leaning is another big peeve for me).

Frankly, I regret wasting money on this piece of steaming dung that masquerades as a game, even though I bought it on sale. The only other game as broken and unfinished I ever saw was X-Rebirth, even SIN wasn't as bad. :( Disgrace that this state continues 17 months after release and that NOTHING AT ALL has been done to repair the "health" system. BI, this is the last product from you that I will ever buy. I'm taking my business elsewhere.