Multiplayer not in playable state

[fred41 42]

The thing is it seems some missions have dead object removal and still suffer a performance hit, so some research needs to be done regarding of whether the performance hit is caused by other objects that aren't cleaned up, or that cleaning up simply doesn't do enough good in the long run. My guess is some things simply don't get cleaned up and/or are impossible to clean up.

... that s exactly what i think too.

It probably needs individual investigation for each mission, to find out if some objects are accumulated over time or even not.

Even if cleanup script itself needs resources too, increasing the frequence of cleanup execution, can help to minimize the additional load from dead objects.

This perhaps sounds contradictory, but it is a working way to increase overall performance, because the cleanup script is running in the VM and will not impact the servers FPS.

[pawelkpl 29]

Today I was shot twice by enemy spotter with hand gun when driving M2A1 Slammer as commander, IT simply SUX !

[Gudsawn 93]

Today I was shot twice by enemy spotter with hand gun when driving M2A1 Slammer as commander, IT simply SUX !

You're playing on the wrong servers. Join one that uses modified/realistic AI.

[dnk 13]

When objects are destroyed via a cleanup script, are they still included in arrays?

Might be having scripts that regularly check arrays with 15,000 elements is clogging up the threads. I'm not sure, but I have a faint recollection of this being an issue when scripting in OA.

[pawelkpl 29]

You're playing on the wrong servers. Join one that uses modified/realistic AI.

It is nothing to do with server, server fps 25, no desynch , ping=10, server uses MB AI skill mod. IMHO when mounted in tank as commander player sometimes is visible (or part of player) to AI as soldier sitting outside vehicle..., it is YAAB = yet another arma bug...

[Gudsawn 93]

It is nothing to do with server, server fps 25, no desynch , ping=10, server uses MB AI skill mod. IMHO when mounted in tank as commander player sometimes is visible (or part of player) to AI as soldier sitting outside vehicle..., it is YAAB = yet another arma bug...

The default Arma 3 AI are insanely accurate - this must be tweaked using scripted commands (setSkill) or by using addons such as ASR AI (we use this on our servers as it works extremely well). I've not heard of the MB AI skill mod - but from what you've described it doesn't sound like it's working.

[pawelkpl 29]

The default Arma 3 AI are insanely accurate - this must be tweaked using scripted commands (setSkill) or by using addons such as ASR AI (we use this on our servers as it works extremely well). I've not heard of the MB AI skill mod - but from what you've described it doesn't sound like it's working.

It is http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=21323 , and It works. I will try to make a short movie clip later.

[Gudsawn 93]

It is http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=21323 , and It works. I will try to make a short movie clip later.

Ok, are you sure it works? Perhaps there may be better alternatives as I've never been "shot twice by enemy spotter with hand gun when driving M2A1 Slammer as commander".

The AI that I've played against so far (using ASR AI) are smart, manoeuvre realistically (flanking is scarily human-like), and they aren't unanturally accurate.

Anyway we're getting slightly off-topic here - we'll carry this on via PMs ;)

[galzohar 31]

When objects are destroyed via a cleanup script, are they still included in arrays?

Might be having scripts that regularly check arrays with 15,000 elements is clogging up the threads. I'm not sure, but I have a faint recollection of this being an issue when scripting in OA.

This is in fact impossible.

The engine only lets a certain amount of scripting commands execute every frame, so such a thing cannot make your FPS go down. It'll just make less scripting commands get executed every frame, making all scripts work very slowly. Well, even that isn't accurate, since the engine shares the run time budget between the scripts, but if you have a lot of those or if you have other scripts that wait for this script to finish, scripts will react slowly. In any case, scripts working slowly due to executing a lot of commands has no effect on your FPS. As long as they don't interact with the actual engine by doing things like creating new objects.

You could get the game stuck by doing such a loop inside a non-scheduled environment, but this is quite uncommon (and as far as I know those environments have max iteration limit on loops anyway).

[dr. hladik 231]

> Why would a dead object, not moving, not changing state create more processing-data

> than something that is alive. That must be an engine issue

Dead body and weaponHolders are still networkObject that you can interact with.So they take some performace. Much less than normal soldier, but if there are hundrets of them...

(Not saying that this is the only cause, I still remember I promised you some lite version of profiler for DS... )

> If it is a requirement of a mission to delete such objects to maintain a playable state, then the engine should deal with it automatically.

Engine cannot know, what units it can delete. What if mission needs you to take rocket launcher from some dead body?

> They halve going from singleplayer to multiplayer, even on an empty domi server that just started.

Please, without link to a mission it is really hard to test it :).

> Today I was shot twice by enemy spotter with hand gun when driving M2A1 Slammer as commander, IT simply SUX !

Please move it to http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159710-AI-Discussion-%28dev-branch%29

[fred41 42]

This is in fact impossible.

The engine only lets a certain amount of scripting commands execute every frame, so such a thing cannot make your FPS go down. It'll just make less scripting commands get executed every frame, making all scripts work very slowly. Well, even that isn't accurate, since the engine shares the run time budget between the scripts, but if you have a lot of those or if you have other scripts that wait for this script to finish, scripts will react slowly. In any case, scripts working slowly due to executing a lot of commands has no effect on your FPS. As long as they don't interact with the actual engine by doing things like creating new objects.

You could get the game stuck by doing such a loop inside a non-scheduled environment, but this is quite uncommon (and as far as I know those environments have max iteration limit on loops anyway).

... this.

Just have to add an important point for script execution in the VM (scheduled environment):

We have to know, that each command invoked by the script interpreter (even in VM), is blocking script execution up to command return.

Because of that, we have to take care, that commands invoked by the script interpreter DON'T need to much time.

For example: Commands like nearObjects, combined with large radius parameter or callExtension, can easily extend a frame to the length of many ms (if not seconds).

But i think we will read more about that in the (hopefully) upcoming performance blog :)

[terox 316]

semi related threads

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?169097-What-performance-should-we-expect-from-the-following-hardware-mission-scenarios

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?169098-Benchmark-mission-and-benchmarking-tools-request-to-help-fix-multiplayer

and please vote for this ticket, if you want to help sort out MP

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12658

@ Dr. Hladik

As if has been posted before

Depending on server

Any coop mission with 300 AI present from the start of the mission and 50 players connected to a server hosted remotely, at a data center will drag the server fps to below 5

Typically the actual numbers of AI/players depends on server specs etc and can vary from the following, as a rough example

Players: 30 - 50

AI :75 to 200

The only missions that do not cause these issues are missions where the AI are created dynamically during the mission

The issue isnt really seen with 20 players

Our server old xeon x5570_can run something between 150 and 250 AI before the fps drops below 15 with around 20 players connected

so why dont you make us a benchmark mission which we could all run for you and designed by you, with params that could disable various elements in the game or ensable various functiomns so we could do the testing and give you feeback.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Terox

[therealMullet 10]

I just wanted to take a moment to let BI know that after playing Arma2 Free, I was seriously considering building a new PC, simply to play ARMA3 Multiplayer. However, after reading this thread, I'll have to put that all on hold. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there who is putting their ARMA3 purchase on hold, while waiting to see how all of these performance issues pan out. Here's hoping for the best!

[sjaba 19]

so why dont you make us a benchmark mission which we could all run for you and designed by you, with params that could disable various elements in the game or ensable various functiomns so we could do the testing and give you feeback.

More then glad to help....so please BIS, make us a "test" mission for us to puzzle with...

Our Nopryl server have the same issue as most others it seems. Above 25 players and a moderate AI level (100 -150) we start seeing FPS down to 10. From what I/we have tested the FPS issue does not seem to be affected much by using mods such as ACRE, ASR_AI etc.

PVP missions runs great at 45-48 FPS with above 20 players, but as soon as you start inviting AI to the fight, FPS its drasticaly reduced. Im starting to think BIS have low confident in us COOP players, so they wanted to find a way to dumb down AI so our fighting spirit wont hit rock bottom ;)

[dr. hladik 231]

> Our Nopryl server have the same issue as most others it seems

:(. Not really much informative.

What mission? Link for download? How many objects is there in the mission (entities command)?

Edited November 26, 2013 by Dr. Hladik

[Gudsawn 93]

> Our Nopryl server have the same issue as most others it seems

:(. Not really much informative.

What mission? Link for download? How many objects is there in the mission (allMissionObjects command)?

I keep seeing this responce from BI devs. Almost the entire Arma community (it seems) is experiencing the issue of low server FPS with moderate AI count (100+). If you want the best collection of statistics/useful information - a test mission created by BI (as Terox suggested) would be the way to go. Data can then be collected in a controlled enviroment where there are less dependant variables that could affect results (e.g. poor mission design/mods/number of mission objects/number of AI/mission up-time etc).

If such a test mission were released, I'm sure the entire Arma community would be willing to contribute. You would then receive all the information/statistics you would ever need (at least more than what you'd be able to gather from internal testing, or by asking the odd server owner here and there).

Edited November 26, 2013 by GDSN

[dr. hladik 231]

I keep seeing this responce from BI devs. Almost the entire Arma community (it seems) is experiencing the issue of low server FPS with moderate AI count (100+). If you want the best collection of statistics/useful information - a test mission created by BI (as Terox suggested) would be the way to go. Data can then be collected in a controlled enviroment where there are less dependant variables that could affect results (e.g. poor mission design/mods/number of mission objects/number of AI/mission up-time etc).

If such a test mission were released, I'm sure the entire Arma community would be willing to contribute. You would then receive all the information/statistics you would ever need (at least more than what you'd be able to gather from internal testing, or by asking the odd server owner here and there).

I don't really see the need for a test mission created by BI. Obviously you have missions that have a problem with FPS and we need to identify it. One more mission will not help.

I don't know if it is because of mission or something else, but I would really appreciate exact mission name and version so I can start my own server with it.

It would be really silly if I was testing some other mission, that is for some reason less prone to have low FPS.

edit: And the most awesome thing would be, If you could recommend some mission that had no problems in A2 but has problems in A3.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Dr. Hladik

[Hud Dorph 22]

Then here are latest Xeno ver of domination. Get 20+ clients on server and watch serverfps each time a maintarget are taken and next target comes up. Important to have 20+ clients on, thats where problems start with each new maintarget.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95560311/co40_domination_2_99r_blufor.altis.pbo

[Dwarden 1125]

on it, being uploaded to BI test server :)

81.0.236.125:2302

81.0.236.125:2402

are severs we use now to test MP issues ;)

Edited November 26, 2013 by Dwarden

[Gudsawn 93]

on it, being uploaded to BI test server :)

81.0.236.125:2302

81.0.236.125:2402

are severs we use now to test MP issues ;)

Woo! Looking forward to seeing what information you can gather from this.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check - are those servers open for testing or they are for use by BI only?

[Dwarden 1125]

Woo! Looking forward to seeing what information you can gather from this.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check - are those servers open for testing or they are for use by BI only?

public,atm testing a3 server package

[Smurf 12]

public,atm testing a3 server package

Dev branch? Server name? What we can do for you?

[Llano 11]

on it, being uploaded to BI test server :)

81.0.236.125:2302

81.0.236.125:2402

are severs we use now to test MP issues ;)

How long will you have the servers running?

[Dwarden 1125]

How long will you have the servers running?

as long as needed, they same servers where i ran last year our official DayZ mod servers :) ...

only this time the UK servers were conficated for DayZ SA testing, so i only have Prague one on disposal

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:34 ----------

Dev branch? Server name? What we can do for you?

stable for now

[Tankbuster 1747]

I'd agree, my suspicion is data transfer bottleneck which is not seen in a lan environment,

Mine too. I played my own mission on a distant server (US - UK) that had an awesome internet connection, yet was being played AND HOSTED on a machine with a 4 year old CPU. It played WAY better than I've ever seen my own mission played in terms of server performance.